Solvay is the Belgian chemical company. They recently acquired the Rhodia spin off from Rhone Poulenc, which made rare earths in France.
China is not the only supplier.
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Are we not in a trade war with France?
The last time there was a Rare Earth Global War the US gave Rare Earth mining and refining a shot (a couple of shots) which promptly went bankrupt.
The Captain
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Yes, we have several projects in the works. But they tell us final separation still gets done in China.
Re: Trade war
Yes, much depends on negotiations with other nations.
In the case of a national emergency, i think we can work out something w France easier than China.
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I guess it depends on “whose” national emergency. They have one tiny refining plant they hope to have operational by 2026. Hard to believe they might feel a national interest to serve themselves first before selling to other countries - like us.
As I noted before, Bloomberg says the rare earths refining being done is in China: 99.6% of it. That leaves a lot of world to squabble over not a lot of refined material.
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Might just be better to open mountain pass and start a refinery ourselves.
The Solvay press release reports they are expanding production. They have been in the business for years. Already 30 years ago when i worked for Rhone Poulenc.
Chinas reluctance to sell creates an opportunity for those willing to expand. At least they have well understood technology and permits in place. That’s a very big plus compared to beginners.
I think the last operation in the US was in California. But ran into environmental problems they are still trying to overcome.
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But apparently, we don’t negotiate, we decree.
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Yes, they are expanding production … from almost nothing. They process 4,000 tons a year mostly for … the French catalytic and electronics industry. Forgive me if I can’t name a large French automobile company or consumer electronics firm anymore.
The plant they are expanding they hope to open in 2026 to supply 25-30% of European demand, but Bloomberg speculates that it won’t get even that far until 2030 at best.
Long way to go. 4 years without supply to the US, probably. Meanwhile, we got zippo, and Big Zippo in the WH.
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US bargaining position “I’m going to beat on you, until you give me what I want”
Steve
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I think its clear that most of these decrees open the dialog for an agreement. But requires some concessions from both sides. As has been pointed out can take months to reach a deal. And some will fail. But at least dialog has begun. Both sides should be aware of some issues of concern.
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You’re joking, right? When was the last time you went into a store and said “I demand you reduce the price of this item by 25%!”
These decrees have angered the entire world, even and especially those countries which used to be our closest allies. Just take a look at what is coming out of Canada (or rather, what isn’t). This is not smart.
Let me correct that. This is exceptionally stupid.
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When he says he has 75 nations eager to make a deal, do you think he is lying? No question the subject is in the news and he has levers to bring people into discussions.
Do they want a deal or not? We shall see. Some deals will be made and those with good terms will become favored trading partners.
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Did his lips move?
If so, he was lying.
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Haven’t you even bargained for a better price on an item or a house or some work? I know I ended up with a good deal when buying some expensive speakers last year and certainly so with every home we’ve bought over the years.
DB2
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Yes. I have little doubt there are small nations “eager.” I seriously doubt that bigger nations are craving to collapse their economies just for the privilege of doing what he wants. He’s good at bullying. He’s not good in delicate negotiations. See: failure to replace Obamacare. His catastrophic failure at the outset of Covid is one for the books. His embrace of criminal tactics, interference in DoJ, and (les we forget) his 24 FELONY CONVICTIONS, among other things.
Curious there hasn’t ’t been an announcement. What’s the hold-up? He managed to announce the tariffs in the course of a day or two. Could it be that there is more nuance to this than he thought? Could it be that he’s just a giant ball of bluster?
He’s good at pushing when he has all the cards. As I have said elsewhere, he has this idea that the US is somehow inviolate, that we stand alone. Sorry, but we’re only 25% of the world GDP. It’s a big piece, but not the only piece. To plagiarize myself:
The problem is that Trump (and acolytes) are convinced the US can do it all single-handedly. The truth is that we are a mighty and powerful nation, but we are still only 25% of the economy, and less than that of military, and less than that of population.
We did not win World War II by ourselves, although the heroic movies from Hollywood and the programs on the History Channel mostly ignore that. It took Stalin and the sacrifices of 10 times as many soldiers as we had, it took England standing resolute and the French underground to bring about that result.
We did not win World War I alone, either; indeed we didn’t even enter the war until it was long underway, and even when we did it took another full year before we were properly mobilized for it, by which time much of the fighting and dying was already past.
We have done some wonderful and amazing things: the Marshall Plan, ending segregation, leading science, sharing with the world, but we are not the ONLY ones to think about - and it is astonishing to me that in a few short weeks this administration has set the entire world apart from us: England, France, Germany, the Scandanivan countries; Mexico and Canada, natural allies no longer; Japan and China too. We’ve abandoned Ukraine and tried to be friends with Russia, to what end?
This policy ranks among the most disastrous in the chronicle of the US, and will be told in the history books (assuming there are history books) alongside such misadventures as Vietnam, Teapot Dome, and the Civil War. Yes, it’s that bad - or will be if it continues. There is a possibility of mitigating, not eliminating the destruction, but it would need to start soon and be smart, and neither of those seems a likely prospect.
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Gee, sometimes I get a hint there might be some bias on these boards.
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Another angle is, as his press secretary said, the US has so many potential customers with money, that everyone is so desperate to have access to the US, they will do anything to gain/keep that access. So, he is bending them over, hard.
I heard that same attitude out of my mom. I heard her saying to one of her sisters, with a smug tone in her voice “teenagers will do anything to be able to drive”. When she started laying out how much I would need to pay her, to borrow her car, if it suited her, I simply said “nope, not playing that game”. So, when I was in high school, no dates, no school dances, no prom. I stayed home and read a book.
Steve
And not without good reason. Last term he averaged about 25 verifiable lies per day. I doubt that has gone down this term.
When someone shows you who they are, believe what they do and not what they say.
—Peter
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