From what I’ve read from you on other TMF boards, I don’t believe you’re just trolling. So I have to wonder what it would take to get you to conclude that you’re misinformed on this matter–and why after everything that’s been posted here, you continue to insist on believing something that simply isn’t true. - MisterFungi
Thank you giving me the benefit of the doubt. I am not trolling…
Ok, the 99% was my way of saying most people have an ID. And even those who don’t is as high as 11%, that doesn’t convey it is OK to vote anonymously.
People should have to prove who they are, where they live and they are eligible to vote before doing so. That is just common sense. Many progressive dismiss that simple idea by assigning a sinister purpose which is their way of avoiding debate.
I admire your efforts to get people a proper ID, there should be more like you. All the progressives who march in the streets to oppose ID’s for people who lack them should focus their efforts on actually helping those people getting an id which would actually improve their lives in ways beyond voting.
BTW, I researched Georgia. You can get an id for voting only at NO CHARGE. The form asks for one of six kinds of documentation but goes on to say if you can’t produce any of them you can affirm you are eligible. Here’s the part I like, they will issue the ID but they don’t mail the ID to you. They mail it to the precinct where you will be voting. The election people there will forward it to you at the address on file for your voter registration. Seems like a pretty tight process, zero cost, and not too burdensome on the would be voter.
You note: I researched Georgia. You can get an id for voting only at NO CHARGE. The form asks for one of six kinds of documentation but goes on to say if you can’t produce any of them you can affirm you are eligible.
Yes. I noted this in a previous post. Georgia did that only as a result of a lawsuit. There’s still a problem with it, though (as I’d noted): the affidavit must be notarized, and notaries are supposed to require photo ID (plus a fee, in most cases). So we’re back to Catch 22: You need ID to get ID.
I’m not dismissing the Georgia policy out of hand, and I recognize that there are no perfect policies. I only wish that Georgia (and other states, including my own) were more sensitive to the fact that there needs to be some kind of practical backstop for citizens who have no official ID of any kind. You’d be surprised at how many people are in that predicament.
A number of years ago I had my purse stolen. I needed to get my birth certificate to get a new copy of my driver’s license. I went to the bank where I have a safe deposit box. They asked for my driver’s license. I explained that it had been stolen along with my purse. I produced my County Employee ID (photo ID), my Social Security Card, a utility bill, and the box key. I offered to write my signature on a piece of paper and she could check it against the signature card in the vault file. The clerk proceeded to tell me that she couldn’t let me in. I asked for the manager who was at lunch. I came back an hour later, explained the situation to the manager and asked how I could access my box. She said that the items I had were enough to prove who I was and let me in the box.
AC at the time I also had my Passport in the box - which is no longer the case
Depending upon the particular state, the figure is as high as 11% of eligible voters lacking ID…
Really?!? Wow! I’ve never seen a figure that high. I’m not contesting it, but I’ve always assumed it is in the <2% range, maybe even <1% - just because I can’t imagine living without ID; we need it for so many things that we* think of as everyday items. I think your characterizations of voter ID law as fundamentally racist are wrong - in my view you are attributing motives (that you can’t possibly know) to discredit someone’s position, which might be driven by a completely different motivation. That being said, states do have an obligation to make it easier, cheaper, and more convenient to get appropriate ID. Once they have done so, I think voter ID is a reasonable requirement to cast a ballot.
comfortable middle-class people with computers, internet access, and funds to invest…
I think your characterizations of voter ID law as fundamentally racist are wrong
I’d characterize the extreme versions of the voter ID movement as antidemocratic rather than racist. The motivation, admitted as much by its GOP initiators (google it, if you doubt it), is to win elections by pushing out eligible voters who tend to vote for the opposition. It’s part and parcel of a larger agenda, of which Jan. 6 was but the most dramatic element to date.
I’m gonna leave it there. If others want to disagree, fine. But for the sake of my health, I’m not gonna pursue it here. Seriously.
…states do have an obligation to make it easier, cheaper, and more convenient to get appropriate ID. Once they have done so, I think voter ID is a reasonable requirement to cast a ballot.
I’d characterize the extreme versions of the voter ID movement as antidemocratic rather than racist. The motivation, admitted as much by its GOP initiators (google it, if you doubt it), is to win elections by pushing out eligible voters who tend to vote for the opposition.
Or not.
The Effects of Photographic Identification on Voter Turnout in Indiana: A County-Level Analysis https://mospace.umsystem.edu/xmlui/handle/10355/2549
Abstract:
I examine the change in voter turnout across Indiana counties before and after the implementation of photo ID requirements. Overall, statewide turnout increased by about two percentage points after photo ID; further, there is no consistent evidence that counties that have higher percentages of minority, poor, elderly or less-educated population suffer any reduction in voter turnout relative to other counties.
In fact, the estimated effect of photo ID on turnout is positive for counties with a greater percentage of minorities or families in poverty. The only consistent and frequently statistically significant impact of photo ID in Indiana is to increase voter turnout in counties with a greater percentage of Democrats relative to other counties. These findings run counter to some recent and prominent concerns that have been raised about voter identification reforms; however, these results are consistent with both existing theory on voter behavior and the most recent and reliable empirical evidence on the effects of voter identification requirements on turnout.
Already discussed here. “We suspect strong emotion reactions to the public debate about these laws may mobilize Democrats, counterbalancing the disenfranchising effect. We find support for this conjecture in a nationally representative survey and an experiment where news frames about voter identification laws are carefully manipulated.” (Valentino & Neuner, Political Psychology, 2017)
What’s interesting is that, according to another study, “while Republican elected officials may strive to enact VID for strategic reasons, it should not therefore be assumed that such motives flow from their Republican constituents in the mass public-—again, Republican citizens show no clear tendency to alter support for the law based upon which party stands to benefit electorally from it.” (Kane, Public Opinion Quarterly, 2017)
Republican citizens show no clear tendency to alter support for the law based upon which party stands to benefit electorally from it.
I agree. I support ID’s for all residents, citizen or not. It is just common sense. You need an ID to exercise your 2nd amendment right, likewise you should need one to vote. Simple. ID’s are fixture of modern life in an orderly, civilized society. Nothing sinister about it.
That being said, states do have an obligation to make it easier, cheaper, and more convenient to get appropriate ID. Once they have done so, I think voter ID is a reasonable requirement to cast a ballot.
My ballot just arrived in the mail.
I showed no ID to get it and it will be accepted without showing an ID. The last 4 #s of my SSN were all I had to provide.
Why should any voter be subjected to a different protocol?
I’d characterize the extreme versions of the voter ID movement as antidemocratic rather than racist.
I think that’s accurate.
It’s a thinly disguised attempt to disenfranchise those voters who typically vote against Republican candidates and/or who tend to vote in favor of liberal social issues.
You characterized voter ID as “antidemocratic” while at the same time voter turnout increased. I don’t see increased voting as antidemocratic.
Antidemocratic measures can - and often do - increase voter anger and lead to greater turnout. That doesn’t make them any less antidemocratic.
To use a (hopefully) absurd example, suppose the State Legislature of Albabia adopts a law stating that in the upcoming election, approximately 100 ballots will be drawn at random from a specific heavily urbanized district and thrown in the trash. That’s clearly antidemocratic - yet it might spur increased turnout from that urbanized district to try to throw out of office the antidemocratic that passed the measure in the first place.
The existence of this ‘backlash’ effect doesn’t mean the measure isn’t antidemocratic - just that such measures often result in unintended consequences.
I somehow must have avoided wadigo until now. Will make sure I do so from here on out. Ploink!
PS: Back from my run, 8 miles through rolling hills. About to have dinner now, a lovely baked pasta with salad and chianti, prepared by my bride of 34 years. Two weeks from now, we’ll be dining al fresco in Paris. Life is good.
As for investing, moved some $ from money market to short term treasuries earlier today. (A little something is better than virtually nothing.) Still lots left for buying shares of solid companies at very good prices. Staring at Masco (MAS) and Carlisle (CSL).
Still lots left for buying shares of solid companies at very good prices. Staring at Masco (MAS) and Carlisle (CSL).
I’ve been buying Moderna (MRNA) which is trading at a P/E of 5. And since this is the Liquidity Lounge, it should be mentioned they have over $12 billion in cash.
MisterFungi says: “PS: Back from my run, 8 miles through rolling hills”
That’s a good run thru hills ! I trail run on the local xc ski trails, try to avoid
running on pavement. I build up to 11 or 12 miles in the Fall, the colors of the
autumn forest are awesome.
I read/lurk on these threads, it’s astonishing how bipolar America is. And nobody ever has
their opinion changed. Life is too short for all that. A lot of angry, resentful,
threatened people out there. That’s one nice thing about the outdoors, almost everybody
is pretty happy on the trails. Suffering,lol, but happy.