"You think I don’t know that? I’m talking about all the stuff you need to have in hand in order to get that ID, and how difficult it is to get it all,…
…and IDs, as well as my decade of practical work assisting thousands of individuals, face to face, in obtaining their IDs, I propose that I know more about this particular topic than anyone else here. I’m not just talking off the top of my head. But that cuts zero ice here with posters that I need not name. "
As was pointed out earlier, the need to gather documents for a state ID card is no different that that which is being required for every American to provide in order to get a “Trusted ID/Drivers license” in order to fly etc. It is difficult for everyone regardless of their economic situation…it has nothing to do with voting suppression . The requirement for no interaction with a voter within 150 feet of a polling place has to do with restricting electioneering and is routine at all voting polls and it too has nothing to do with voter suppression. The idea of voters separation by 25 feet if in line and wanting to get a water is unusual but apparently is to be enforced in all voting districts and by definition would impact voter participation equally for all voters. The need for voter verification applies to all voters, in Georgia and all states, and unfortunately has not been practiced well in any states to include Georgia. No legitimate citizens vote should be cancelled by coordinated illegal voting and stuffing of ballot boxes.
As was pointed out earlier, the need to gather documents for a state ID card is no different that that which is being required for every American to provide in order to get a “Trusted ID/Drivers license” in order to fly etc.
I thought you guys were strict textualists?
Voting is mentioned in the Constitution. State IDs is not.
No legitimate citizens vote should be cancelled by coordinated illegal voting and stuffing of ballot boxes.
I agree. But, to the best of my knowledge, this has never occurred in the US. If you had and example that withstood the scrutiny of the courts, that would be helpful.
You do realize that votes are counted with both Republican and Democrat representatives present and so far, none of them have reported ballot stuffing.
Sometimes you lose elections. That’s life in our republic.
“I agree. But, to the best of my knowledge, this has never occurred in the US. If you had and example that withstood the scrutiny of the courts, that would be helpful.”
Glad to provide some examples showing that this does occur and needs to be watched for and guarded against. I am sure you would agree with that.
Voting is mentioned in the Constitution. State IDs is not. - AlphaWolf
So is the right to bear firearms. But I have to provide an ID in order to buy a gun. Nothing wring with that. Nothing wrong with proving who you are and where you live in order to vote either. Simple.
How about treating guns like ballots, just mail one anonymously to every address.
the need to gather documents for a state ID card is … is difficult for everyone regardless of their economic situation.
So the OP is saying that the $25 fee for a Georgia birth record (assuming the person was born in Georgia), plus providing proof of residence, such as a utility bill or rent receipt, plus the fee for the state ID card, not to mention traveling to and from the DMV, is equally difficult for a homeless person and the CEO of Coca Cola. And the OP is saying this on a site devoted to money matters. I rest my case.
The need for voter verification applies to all voters, in Georgia and all states, and unfortunately has not been practiced well in any states to include Georgia. …These are facts
Not according to Georgia’s Republican secretary of state nor the GOP-directed “forensic audit” in Arizona nor the findings in any number of jurisdictions in which the “evidence” of wholesale election fraud has been literally laughed out of court.
Last time: I do NOT oppose reasonable voter ID requirements. I oppose requirements that are (intentionally) systematically harder for some categories of voters to meet than others.
PS: Georgia does offer a state-issued ID good solely for voting purposes that requires only an affidavit from the applicant. No fee, no supporting documents. Catch-22: the affidavit must be notarized, and of course the notary will require identity verification–typically a government-issued photo ID.
"… is equally difficult for a homeless person and the CEO of Coca Cola. And the OP is saying this on a site devoted to money matters. I rest my case… is equally difficult for a homeless person and the CEO of Coca Cola. And the OP is saying this on a site devoted to money matters. I rest my case…
"PS: Georgia does offer a state-issued ID good solely for voting purposes that requires only an affidavit from the applicant. No fee, no supporting documents. Catch-22: the affidavit must be notarized, and of course the notary will require identity verification–typically a government-issued photo ID.
You are being ridiculous trying to use a handful of corporate executives and the homeless as a basis for your complaints. You have again stated the obvious…one needs a photo ID to function in today’s society.
Georgia does offer a state-issued ID good solely for voting purposes that requires only an affidavit from the applicant.
That is as close to no identification as possible. I could easily claim to be you and vote in your name. In fact I could get as many id’s as I wanted if i was so inclined.
Again, an real ID is required in so many other aspects of life, then such people would be better off to get a one. The get out the vote advocates could improve the lives of these people outside the boundaries of voting by helping them and paying the fees to navigate the process. That would be a more positive contribution to society than clamoring that ID’s should not be required in the first place.
This is BS. You can get all the false identities you want but you still must register to vote. Registration will not create a new false identity for you nor allow you to vote in someone else’s name if they are also registering under that name.
Are signatures checked? My daughter had her vote here in Oregon invalidated during the last election due to a name change and changed signature.
As to the election worker “stuffing the ballot box”, how would voter ID laws prevent that. To my knowledge there has been no significant result changing fraud involving people voting multiple times nor, especially, non-citizens voting. Prove me wrong and show how that would be done.
You are being ridiculous trying to use a handful of corporate executives and the homeless as a basis for your complaints.
Boater, you’re bending over backwards to miss the point: your claim that it is “equally difficult” for everyone to gather the documents required to get a state ID is ridiculous. It is undeniably more difficult for some people–the impoverished, the elderly, the computer unsavvy, etc.–than for others. I used that example merely to make the point abundantly clear.
Catch-22: the affidavit must be notarized, and of course the notary will require identity verification–typically a government-issued photo ID.
Since Bank of America shut it’s branch in our small town I have to make an appointment to pay a private notary $15 per document… and I have to drive to said notary’s office… and, yes, she requires Photo ID.
"Boater, you’re bending over backwards to miss the point: your claim that it is “equally difficult” for everyone to gather the documents required to get a state ID is ridiculous.
Can we give this a rest now, please?"
Of course, but please don’t put your words in my mouth.
“… the need to gather documents for a state ID card is no different that that which is being required for every American to provide in order to get a “Trusted ID/Drivers license” in order to fly etc. It… " is difficult for everyone” …regardless of their economic situation…".
This points out that it is not an easy thing for all Americans to meet the requirements of a government ID but it is a necessary thing to function in today’s society.
Of course, but please don’t put your words in my mouth.
Right. As I’d posted previously, you said, “It is difficult for everyone regardless of their economic situation.” So I take it we agree that it’s more difficult for some folks than for others, depending upon (among other things) their “economic situation.”
My claim, based on published research and direct experience with thousands of low-income/indigent people, is that it’s extraordinarily difficult in a nontrivial number of cases, routinely taking months of effort and sometimes hundreds of dollars in expense.
Never heard of the Philly election fraud before and I enjoyed the historical information regarding voter fraud in Rhode Island (although the most recent case talked about was over 60 years ago).
What is interesting, however, is that having a voter ID law would not have prevented any of these election frauds. Not a single one.
So, why insist on voter ID laws when it doesn’t prevent the known cases of voter fraud you linked to?
The answer is that voter ID laws are not designed to prevent voter fraud, they’re designed to limit legitimate voting, primarily among the poor.
It seems that real voter fraud rarely happens, but when it does, it happens with vote officials, not voters. Like when a state legislature tries to overturn the legitimate vote of the people. Seems like that should be the focus to fix voter fraud.
The answer is that voter ID laws are not designed to prevent voter fraud, they’re designed to limit legitimate voting, primarily among the poor. - Alphawolf
Wrong. Voter ID laws are designed to ensure the person desiring to cast a vote is in fact a citizen, eligible to vote, and actually lives in the precinct where he wants to vote. Pretty simple and no extra burden for 99.99999% of the voters. The other 0.00001% have two years between elections to obtain an id and having one would make the life easier in many ways, voting aside.
Wrong. Voter ID laws are designed to ensure the person desiring to cast a vote is in fact a citizen, eligible to vote, and actually lives in the precinct where he wants to vote. Pretty simple and no extra burden for 99.99999% of the voters. The other 0.00001% have two years between elections to obtain an id and having one would make the life easier in many ways, voting aside.
Hi Mike,
Just curious, where did you get those percentages? Do you have a link?
The biggest problem with the voter ID laws is that they are embracing Trump’s Big Lie about election fraud that did not happen in the first place - as evidenced by hundreds of audits, recounts, and his own lawyers who stopped alleging election fraud when they realized that they could lose their law licenses if they kept knowingly making false claims for which they had no proof.
Depending upon the particular state, the figure is as high as 11% of eligible voters lacking ID, often for reasons that constitute a major burden and that we’ve discussed endlessly here. https://www.brennancenter.org/issues/ensure-every-american-c…
From what I’ve read from you on other TMF boards, I don’t believe you’re just trolling. So I have to wonder what it would take to get you to conclude that you’re misinformed on this matter–and why after everything that’s been posted here, you continue to insist on believing something that simply isn’t true.