This is an interesting idea. I’m wondering…wouldn’t the owner of the battery be most likely to need to use the stored power themselves just at the same time that the power company would need it the most?
Wendy
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Maybe or maybe not - The owner can terminate the transfer of power before or during the event.
It is all explained in the following link:
https://www.tesla.com/support/energy/tesla-virtual-power-pla…
Jaak
The power company would tap into the batteries in an attempt to prevent a power outage. The owner would need the battery when the power went out.
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The power company needs the energy in the batteries to prevent a power outage. If a power outage occurs, then power company does not need the batteries any longer and stops drawing on the battery.
Powerwall will discharge during Virtual Power Plant events but won’t discharge below battery owner’s Backup Reserve. Battery owner adjusts their Backup Reserve to control their contribution while maintaining backup energy for outages.
https://www.tesla.com/support/energy/tesla-virtual-power-pla…
Jaak
The discussion about battery owners wanting their battery power for themselves during power outages thus far doesn’t mention that the vast majority of power outages at a house are not caused by widespread grid failure due to lack of generating capacity, instead it’s because a transformer blew or a line got knocked down.
Not to mention that anyone participating in this program will have solar panels, which at times of peak draw are probably producing most or all of the power needed by the house.
2 BUCKS a kWh!!! The heck with powerwall, that’s only 13.5 kWh. I’ll fill up my car, that’s 82 kWh, and sell [most of] it back to them at 2 bucks per … and then fill it up again the next day if necessary.
2 BUCKS a kWh!!! The heck with powerwall, that’s only 13.5 kWh. I’ll fill up my car, that’s 82 kWh, and sell [most of] it back to them at 2 bucks per … and then fill it up again the next day if necessary.
Well, aside from the offer only being in play during rare days when the grid is over-taxed, would you really do this on the regular if you could? I suppose the payoff is high enough to fund a new car battery when it’s necessary. If you cycled 40kwh daily for $80/day, that would roughly be the equivalent of putting 58,000 miles on your car battery per year, at 4 miles per kwh. You’d earn $29k, which I suppose you’d have to pay taxes on. If your marginal tax rate is 25%, you’d clear about $22k.
I suppose it would be worth it, but not necessarily so. As long as your charge and discharge rates were moderate you’d probably be fine. If you were super-charging daily, that would probably be a problem.
<<2 BUCKS a kWh!!! The heck with powerwall, that’s only 13.5 kWh. I’ll fill up my car, that’s 82 kWh, and sell [most of] it back to them at 2 bucks per … and then fill it up again the next day if necessary.>>
Well, aside from the offer only being in play during rare days when the grid is over-taxed, would you really do this on the regular if you could?
I will never do it, because my car doesn’t currently support reverse power supply. I was kind of kidding due to my shock of the high price per kWh. I mean, if it happens 5 times a year, 40kWh each time (half the total) on average, then it would be 200kWh/yr at $2, or a total of $400/yr. Considering that you can easily recharge a few hours later at $0.25/kWh, then the annual “profit” would be $400 - $50 (to recharge in CA), or $350. That’s not bad for a very slight possibility of inconvenience. But it’s also not enough to attract the vast majority of EV owners.
I suppose the payoff is high enough to fund a new car battery when it’s necessary. If you cycled 40kwh daily for $80/day, that would roughly be the equivalent of putting 58,000 miles on your car battery per year, at 4 miles per kwh. You’d earn $29k, which I suppose you’d have to pay taxes on. If your marginal tax rate is 25%, you’d clear about $22k.
I suppose it would be worth it, but not necessarily so. As long as your charge and discharge rates were moderate you’d probably be fine. If you were super-charging daily, that would probably be a problem.
It’ll NEVER happen daily, because if it was daily, and the power company had to pay $2/kWh all the time, they would build another power plant instead.
Anyway, my point was that the powerwall with 13.5kWh is relatively puny when compared with a car with 82kWh (or perhaps a high-end F-150 lightning with 131kWh). This is also why a solar system with powerwall isn’t as useful as expected for charging a vehicle at night. The most it can collect throughout the day is 13.5kWh, and the most it can charge the car at night is 13kWh or so (that’s 47 miles for me, probably enough for average daily driving 5 or 6 days a week). But if you use the entire powerwall stored power on the car every night, you lose the home backup aspect of it. It’s really a conundrum, and part of why I can’t decide to install solar yet. I know that I would want 2 (or maybe even 3) powerwalls, but that bumps the cost WAY up, and makes it uneconomical over 15+ years. Even without the battery subsystem, unless I assume large increases in electric rates, it is not quite economical yet.
She walked into the Audie dealer down the street and told them she needed a new car right now. She drove off the lot in ~ an hour and they had even sent a sales guy to get the new plates and installed them.
Ayup!
Once again it’s a case of giving the customer what s/he wants at a price s/he is willing/able to afford to make the sale.
Powerwall owners who decide to join the program will earn $2 per kilowatt-hour sent back to the grid…
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Yowza!
California ain’t got nuthin’ on the UK.
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10960621/How-families-PAID-…
Consumers with smart meters will be offered the payment to slash their usage during peak times in the winter and try and cut the risk of nationwide blackouts…The proposals could see households paid up to £6 for each kilowatt-hour they avoid using at peak times…National Grid ESO trialled the proposals with Octopus Energy customers this year and is now looking to offer the scheme to millions of households.
£6 = $7.32/kWh
DB2
California ain’t got nuthin’ on the UK.
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10960621/How-families-PAID-……
Consumers with smart meters will be offered the payment to slash their usage during peak times in the winter and try and cut the risk of nationwide blackouts…The proposals could see households paid up to £6 for each kilowatt-hour they avoid using at peak times…National Grid ESO trialled the proposals with Octopus Energy customers this year and is now looking to offer the scheme to millions of households.
LOL … cobras! This may end up having a cobra effect.
https://www.choicehacking.com/2022/01/04/what-is-the-cobra-e…
If the payment depends on “slashing your usage”, then people may be tempted to increase their usage during the peak times of day before heavy usage is predicted, so they can “slash” their usage by a lot on those days to make the hefty 6 pound bounty for every kWh they “don’t use” on those days. Heck, if you install a storage system, you can probably arbitrage this method into a way to cut your electric bill significantly!
Half joking around here … but only half. 
Consumers with smart meters will be offered the payment to slash their usage during peak times in the winter and try and cut the risk of nationwide blackouts…The proposals could see households paid up to £6 for each kilowatt-hour they avoid using at peak times…National Grid ESO trialled the proposals with Octopus Energy customers this year and is now looking to offer the scheme to millions of households.
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LOL … cobras! This may end up having a cobra effect.
Great name. Maybe in the UK they’ll call it the octopus effect. 
DB2