Now come on Albaby. You are setting up your own argument and then tearing it down. That is not constructive to any discussion. Nobody said they were setting it up for model 3’s. Nobody said it was going to be the identical model. They are saying it Might be called the Tesla 2 or the Q. But that is just a guess at this point.
Or just plain lighter and smaller. You have to remember that musk wants to make an autonomous taxi so if that is the case he is going to design the cars to have that optionality.
Or they get FSD to pass and then what will their margins be?
The one I wanted took a while, just under 3 months from order to delivery. But that was at the height of covid supply chain issues. At the time, a 2-3 year old car, with 20-30k miles, same exact model was selling for MORE than the new one cost me. Had I chosen a different model, it could have been delivered in a week or so, even then.
Interestingly enough, some time between order and delivery, they informed me that a different color of same model had become available, and I could get it right away. I still opted to wait for “my” car in the color I chose.
Exactly you investigated and then bought. Just like a Tesla. That is the prudent thing to do.
Sure there are always reasons people might want a car today. But most people want the car they want and are willing to wait. I have a friend that bought a Mustang Shelby waited months for it. 2 to 6 weeks wait time seems trivial for the car you would like to have.
Wow! That’s surprising to me. I’ve bought probably 18-20 cars over the last 40 years, and none of them, not even the used ones were purchased straight “off the lot”. I can’t even imagine finding a car, the model I want, the options I want, the color I want … just sitting there on the lot.
I can’t imagine buying 18-20 cars over 40 years. That’s one every other year or so.
I just listed my car inventory over the last 40 years. There are 10. Including the one my wife brought into the marriage. I do have the benefit of never having had to buy a car for offspring. We only have one and he is physically unable to drive. I did drive cars provided by my parents for about 3 years or so after getting my license. But once I bought my own car, I never depended on theirs again. (Well, there have been a couple of borrowings for a few days here and there over the years, but that’s just having good relationships with family.)
Only one - probably the first one bought after we got married - really had no research into it. My car got totaled in a wreck, needed a replacement in short order, so bought something used that we could afford. Every other car had some research into what we needed, what we wanted, and what was available. But once a suitable car was located, it was purchased and delivered the same day.
Even the new ones. For those, I looked into options, decided what I insisted on having, what things were nice but not necessary, and what I did not want. Then went to the local dealer, was shown a couple of cars from their inventory that met my criteria, and bought one.
Strangely, one of the worst deals turned out to be the best car I have ever owned. Drove it for 18 or 17 years, until the engine gave out. Getting taken for a couple hundred dollars on the purchase price turned into an incidental extra expense over the course of ownership. And the option I didn’t get that I thought I had was also a big nothingburger over that time.
Most of those cars were used cars. They still got research, including a bit of learning about the market for the specific vehicle once I decided what I wanted. (Care to see my spreadsheet with a regression analysis of asking prices? I consider that part of the research.) Of course, with used cars, when you buy it you immediately take possession. No putting down deposits and waiting weeks or months for delivery.
Reuters is reporting Tesla plans a major expansion in Texas. Also a new plant in Mexico.
“Local newspaper Reforma reported in December that Tesla could announce the construction of a gigafactory in the northern Mexican state of Nuevo Leon soon, with an initial investment of between $800 million and $1 billion.”
First car, 1989 was special ordered. Then came the 12-year-old 1980 Corvette from the classifieds in the paper. Than a used '92 from a dealer. Next was a new '99 Buick, special ordered. Next was a Mazda off the lot, then an S2000 off the lot, then the Accord, the CR-V, the Odyssey, and the current Accord. All those from Mazda on were new off the lot. Drive, like, buy, done. It’s the way the vast majority of car purchases are done. Its why dealers usually have lots of stock on hand.
Per Musk, once Tesla has real FSD (i.e. a truly autonomous car), Tesla will STOP selling cars to the public. Why? There is a far greater profit to be realized selling Transportation As A Service (and not selling cars). GM’s Barra says essentially the same thing.
Maybe I overestimated, but we do have 7 drivers here!
'72 Dodge Charger - used
'83 (?) Chevy Malibu - used
'85 Ford Mustang GT - new
'78 Cadillac Deville sedan - used
'85 Subaru sedan - new
'71 Honda Civic hatchback - used
'94 Honda Civic sedan - new
'94 Nissan Sentra - new (fit 3 car seats in back row until minivan arrived)
'94 Volvo 940 - used (totaled after an 18 wheeler drove over the hood while in a parking lot)
'04 Toyota Sienna - new
'05 Honda Odyssey - new
'14 Honda Odyssey - used
'15 Genesis sedan - used
'21 Tesla m3 - new
'19 Nissan Leaf - used
People seem surprised at this. Over my 55+ years of car buying I have likely purchased 15-20 cars, all but one of them I bought off the lot, usually on my first visit. (The outlier was when I mentioned to a dealer that I would like to trade my 94 Infiniti for a 97, as that model was going out of production and I wanted ‘the most recent’. And he found it.)
Lots of people buy the same day, of functionally equivalent. Somebody who has totaled the car in an accident. Somebody who has a lease expiring, Somebody who gets excited to see a model they’ve only heard about and finally get to test drive.
I would have done it again having gone to see an Ioniq6, except the dealer jacked the price by over $5,000 over list “just because.” I might have done the same with a Chrysler Pacifica Van except neither of the dealers close by had one for sale. (One had one on the lot, but it was already sold.)
If there’s to be a (significantly) cheaper Tesla, it will have to be a combination of things. Lighter, yes. Smaller, yes. Probably not as profitable per unit, but with greater potential sales overall leading to more profit (as when the Japanese invaded with Datsun, Honda, etc. in the 80’s).
I would be surprised if they would re-write the software, that’s already done;, they would just disable certain parts of it so as to be unusable. And then the decreasing cost of technology would probably factor in: the chips, boards, etc. would be coming down in price, particularly if they can move from custom or high-priced (fast) chips to more generic and cheaper. Much of the R&D will already be amortized, so that goes down as well.
I can see a path for a smaller, lighter, and cheaper Tesla - although I don’t know that’s the wisest route. Upscale products which try to go downscale have a hard time managing the brand 5 or 10 years out. In fact getting out of your lane (pardon the metaphor) is tough in most businesses, that’s why Toyota created Lexus, Nissan Infiniti, and Honda Accord.
If there was a Tesla on the National lot, I would likely have taken it. The Polestar 2 was a fluke (you can pick any car with National for the same price - have had some nice Audi’s and Beemers using that perk).
Regardless, one should not have to do a rental to do a test drive - and I would not have made the deposit on the P2 if not for that bit of happenstance.
That may be true in the premium market, or for cars that are significantly different from any other alternatives. If you have a really, really strong preference for a very specific car, you will likely be willing to wait for it. Also wealthy purchasers, who have the means and flexibility to wait for a car and buy it on their own timeframe, not driven by external deadlines (an accident or breakdown that makes a car have to get replaced).
But for many people, a car is a bit more utilitarian than that. They’re isn’t “a” car that they would like to have, and they won’t have really strong preferences for one type of car over another. It has to meet their needs and budget, and they’ll have things they want to see in the car (Cupholders! More cupholders!!). But unlike someone pining for a Mustang Shelby, there won’t be a huge chasm between their feelings about one brand of mid-size SUV vs. any other brand of mid-size SUV.
A customer might have a Tesla as a top choice - but if it’s not available for 2-6 weeks (and no certainly when in that window they will get their car), some customers will find that enough reason to just move to a number two choice they can get immediately. That doesn’t matter at all in the early phase of adoption of BEV’s, when there just aren’t very many other options. But as the market matures and consumers are spoiled for choice in BEV’s, not having dealers starts to bring an opportunity cost that isn’t present in the early stage of adoption.
I, and 3 other drivers in my family, test drove 2 Tesla models. We arranged the test drive online, then we went to a nearby mall where a Tesla representative texted us where the car was parked (a random spot in the parking lot), then the rep unlocked the car remotely, we got in and drove it around for 20-30 minutes, returned to the parking lot and parked it a random spot there.
No. Sorry, you’re wrong. And its the entire reason why (historically, before supply chain issues) dealers invest a lot of money to have a large selection of inventory ready to sell. Because most new car sales are done from dealer inventory.
In other words, your friend is ready to wait for the exact car he wants. But that is not most people.
Yet that isn’t shown up in the data. The truth is Tsla is growing faster because people are willing to wait.
Yet it isn’t the early phase of adoption. The first Tsla came out in 2009 and 14 years later they are still growing faster. As it has been said up thread. People are tired of being scammed by salesmen. Sure Ice cars will be around for awhile but we will see more and more incentives for people to buy them and more dealerships going bankrupt. Ford is already changing their sales process to compete with Tsla. They now are allowing customers to order their vehicle on line and have it shipped directly to their homes. Every dealership will be required to post the set price of the vehicle on line so anyone can shop for a vehicle from home, at any dealership around the country. Sounds like they are moving much closer to Tesla’s model. The only thing stopping them is the anchor of all the dealerships around their neck, instituted by law.
Only because that is the way it always has been done. Nobody see’s the disruption coming and then when it finally is over they always say oh yea that made perfect sense. Every person that buys a Tsla does it exactly that way, and Tsla is growing faster than Ford, Toyota, or GM.
