Thanks a lot

Investment Analysis Clubs Millionaire Fools
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Well, hell.

After that last thread, it becomes apparent once again, that I’m the only fool to step through the gate at TMF who grew up poor. My parents were great, I wouldn’t trade my childhood for anything. But their idea of investing was waiting to buy the neighborhood’s first color tv until my sister and I went to the dentist in case we needed dental work. That was considered a “sacrifice” in our house. And I learned well from them. To give you an idea of how well I learned, every year, my wife or I would get a new car, and the other would get one the following year. And you surely know what great investments cars have been! 27 new cars in 30 years. Oh, lucky us.

My first—and so far only, kinda—million (cash) only came early last year, at age 68. On a roll with stocks, we came a hair’s breath away from reaching #2 late in the same year. Then came the market’s bi-annual hatred of all things tech, so now I feel fortunate just to still have that #1, and then some, left in cash.

But I managed to retire at age 46, and about 10 years later, started investing “as a hobby.” I starting out small (lol, but with new cars, of course.) It took a while to find my investing path, but it finally came together. But I determined that our old ways must stop with me and my generation.

On the “plus” side:

• One and Only Son (OOS, if you please) is a geneticist, currently working on his PhD.
• OOS’ college is paid for. Thanks Mom & Dad.
• OOS’ car #3 is paid for. Thanks Mom & Dad.
• OOS is already a good investor and has been since high school. Thanks Dad.
• We’re paying off our home in February with investing gains, since gains aren’t likely to be stellar this year.
• Our cars are all paid for and they’re 5,4 and 8 years old! Oh, plus my ‘Vette is an ancient ’05, but like new, with 35,000 miles. (Hey, a guy can’t give up everything, am I right?)
• We’re helping several relatives with humongous medical bills through no fault of theirs.
• We’re looking for a smaller home, but haven’t quite decided where we want to live. LBYM aside, it will be smaller, but will have everything. :blush: I’m not sure if that’s the old ways creeping in or just dues paid, and don’t care. It is what it is.
• Total Debt = $0.00

So, it turns out that an old dog can learn new tricks. But it sure ticks me off that no one taught me anything about building wealth before it was almost too late. And it isn’t rocket science, so it makes me feel pretty dumb that I didn’t figure it out sooner for myself. That said, accumulating money has never been a big priority for me. Seriously, it hasn’t been and isn’t today. But I’ve been poor and I’ve been (relatively) rich. Rich is more fun.

Please do the world a favor. Teach someone to invest in … something … big houses and cars not recommended.

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I agree. Coaching the next generation to better themselves through education, job training, investing, and even choosing the right partner–is good practice for millionaires. We should do more of it.

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But it sure ticks me off that no one taught me anything about building wealth before it was almost too late. And it isn’t rocket science, so it makes me feel pretty dumb that I didn’t figure it out sooner for myself.

Yeah. I consider myself incredibly fortunate that two things happened early in my career:

  1. I had a grad school class where the professor had The Motley Fool listed as one of his favorite web sites.

  2. I “survived” an event where the vast majority of my department got laid off or outsourced.

Nothing like having the right tool available at the right time as an incredibly important life lesson smacks you in the face.

Life would have wound up much differently were it not for those two things happening at almost the exact same time.

Regards,
-Chuck
Home Fool

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After that last thread, it becomes apparent once again, that I’m the only fool to step through the gate at TMF who grew up poor.

Thats not very likely at all. For example, me. We were pretty poor growing up, I mean we didn’t quite know it* because we thought everyone was like that, but that wasn’t really the case … we were just kids. I remember in the late 60s or early 70s when my dad lost his job and we lost our apartment. We moved in with my grandparents into a 4th floor walkup, they had themselves and their 2 youngest kids living there at the time, and then all 6 of us moved in, my parents and 4 little kids! All in a small-ish apartment in Brooklyn, NY. Oh, and other than me, everyone was an immigrant, I was the first of the extended family to be born in the USA. We lived like that for just short of a year, and then my dad got a new (and better) job and then we finally moved out. I was in college (or maybe taking college courses in last year of HS) when we got our first color TV. Also, I was the first in the extended family to attend college and graduate. My mom was the second to attend college and graduate, she attended at the same time I did, and graduated a week after I did. And there was no such thing as “investing”, instead there was “making this months rent” and “paying off the credit at the store”. After I started working, I contributed to the household expenses. And my parents started investing about when I started investing. Luckily they’re only 19-20 years older than me, so they still had a little time to save some for retirement.

My wife and I have 5 kids, all teens and up at this point. I paid for each of them to attend private schools from pre-K through High School, and I paid for their college. Some chose expensive colleges, some chose state schools, some had minimal merit awards, some had substantial merit awards. And the two youngest will be choosing college next year. And I’ve been working on teaching my kids investing, but not particularly well. It’s amazing how kids differ, even siblings. I have one that works and saves her money (probably because I cover most of her expenses), a second one that spends everything she earns and more (she has my credit cards), and another that is very diligent and works whenever she has a spare moment, and saves almost all of what she earns. BUT, so far, they’ve all taken big steps to saving me lots of tuition money, mainly by taking college classes in high school and every summer. One started college last year with 59 college credits to her name before even starting!

Over my career, now closing in on 40 years, I’ve always worked as a regular employee, and I don’t hop jobs, I’ve worked for 3 companies in total. Every penny that I’ve saved and invested came from my earned income from my employers. No inheritances or startup windfalls or similar. I’ve lived a VERY LBYM life, and even today when it isn’t necessary anymore, I still spend less than I earn each year. And while I can retire anytime I choose, with way under a safe withdrawal rate, I still choose to work because I still enjoy what I do, and enjoy the people I do it with.

  • In retrospect, we kind of knew it because some of our friends did things like “vacation” and we had no idea what it really was, but we knew they “went away” and we didn’t go away.
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After that last thread, it becomes apparent once again, that I’m the only fool to step through the gate at TMF who grew up poor.

Hooboy, not in the least! Even presuming you’re talking about the gate of this particular board, I’m sure there are many more like MarkR (excellent post, btw) and me. I looked for but did not find a previous post with my ‘growing up poor’ story in it that I could just link to, but the short version starts with: younger of two, parents divorced before I could walk, and after a 4-year relationship with a good dude where she didn’t have to work much, mom spent a year+ on welfare (and working) before deciding to send us away, at 8 and 7 years old, to live with dad and his basically-wife for a year while she studied her butt off to become a hospital lab technician (her Fine Arts degree never led her to money, only personal satisfaction and a wonderful eye for beauty). She never remarried and I went to 8 schools in 7 districts from K-4th grade. She finally saved enough to buy a tiny ramshackle house my Freshman year in high school. I was lucky enough to go to a good in-state public U with work and about $17k in student loans and lived cheaply off-campus. I think she gave me $1k to help with tuition once when she sold a small piece of land she’d invested in earlier, but that was all–we both agreed from the get-go (or “from the gecko”, as we now say in our house) that I was paying for my college. My first year as a bachelor-degreed Civil Engineer, I started at $30k a year, which was $13k more than her best year ever, not just to that point, as a lab worker. In the vein of an earlier reply, I was also very lucky to find TMF when I did, around the time I paid off my student loans (age 29 iirc).

But as someone who grew up with the mindset that “$1M = arrived*” back when that was a whole lot of money, I’m interested in your take, and that of others here who did it, on how retirement on a sub-7-figure nest egg at 46 was able to happen, especially if you didn’t have the house paid off and didn’t ‘become eligible for this board’ until 20+ years later. Maybe only having one kid helped (we have 7). I’m pretty hip to the LBYM jive, though not off-the-grid extreme, especially on clothing, cars (currently '03, '06, and '05, bought at car-age 3, 3, and 16, respectively), and food, though DW, who was raised by fearful miser, has a huge weakness for sushi and very expensive cheese. Just, how did you decide that you were done working and that what you had saved was enough?

-n8 (great point about missing investing education and our obligation to give back in that regard!)

  • now thinking the “walk number” is $2M due to inflation, mostly in college and housing costs
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that I’m the only fool to step through the gate at TMF who grew up poor.

I think you make a mistake with that assumption based on a hand full of responses.

Many of us here (myself included) lived in trailer parks, had parents on welfare, ate government cheese and generic white box corn flakes.

I also hit my 1st (and 2nd) in the past few years. It is a daily challenge to hold onto that second one but I’ve got quite a few more earning years to worry about that.

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Thats not very likely at all. For example, me. We were pretty poor growing up, I mean we didn’t quite know it* because we thought everyone was like that, but that wasn’t really the case … we were just kids.

I didn’t realize that we were poor until I went to college, and realized that other people had so much more money. I was stunned when my then-boyfriend said something about remembering the first time his dad made over 6 figures. His dad was a big VP at one of the big oil companies.

From my perspective, we always had enough. There was always a roof over my head and food on the table. Relatives lived close, and we were always gathering for one family event or another. I had a very happy childhood, and never worried about where my next meal would come from.

Even today, I believe that it is about having enough. It doesn’t matter much about having more than that, though a cushion is very nice.

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2gifts: From my perspective, we always had enough.

I know we had enough, because if I asked for more, Mom would say, “No, you’ve had enough.”

CNC

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how retirement on a sub-7-figure nest egg at [well below standard retirement age] was able to happen,

I didn’t actually pull the trigger, but I had put contingency plans to do just that in place during the financial crisis when skilled jobs I was qualified for were scarce.

There are a few things to recognize that would have made it possible:

  1. it’s expensive to work.
  2. it’s expensive to owe money.
  3. costs can vary dramatically by location.
  4. even in 2022, a family of four can usually find a way to be above the poverty level on a less than $40,000 income ( https://www.payingforseniorcare.com/federal-poverty-level ). That $40,000 income is the “4% rule” on a $1,000,000 nest egg…
  5. if your income isn’t too high, your taxes can be remarkably low.
  6. if nobody is working outside the home, you could probably get away with one “rolls canardly” type car for a household.

Basically, the worst case contingency plan was to sell our home, use the equity to pay cash for a house in a much lower cost, much lower taxed community about 35 miles away, and “turtle up”. Even without subsidized health insurance (the plan was based on the “COBRA/HIPPA” published guaranteed insurance backstop rates at the time), we could have lived a similar lifestyle in a lower cost, lower taxed area for around $2,500 per month, including a small “buffer” to save for things like car repairs, basic medical expenses, etc.

That “about 35 miles away” community would have still put us within an hour or so of downtown (outside of rush hour) and all the amenities that involves…

Regards,
-Chuck
Home Fool

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you could probably get away with one “rolls canardly” type car for a household. - TMFBigFrog

In the late 70’s I worked with a guy in Toledo, Walt Albright was his name, who often quipped about a rolls canardly. It has been almost fifty years since I heard that term, until now. Thanks for the memory…

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Yep I grew up poor,but I was happy. Now I’m 59 years old and I’m a millionaire. I’ve been trading for a couple of years and went through the Covid crisis. That set me back. Still $60000.00 in the red. Just found TMF. I’m just wondering what the magic stock in AI that everyone is talking about is. Any help would be greatly appreciated!!!

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Hey Muneshine !

Welcome to the Fool. I’ve been investing for over 40 years and you WILL learn that there is no such thing as a “magic stock” ANYWHERE !

They all have ups and downs. Your job is select the company(s) that you understand and want to be an owner.

Best,
Rich (haywool) profitable portfolio every year.

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Hey haywool,

How do you feel about nitrogen fixing bacteria for corn?

https://discussion.fool.com/nitrogen-fixing-bacteria-for-corn-35…

Will it make a difference? Lower fertilizer costs? 7 more bushels/per acre?

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“Magic Stock?”

Bad timing, it changes every week,so we must wait until Monday morning to find out the new one. Last week was Sentinel 1, but that’s now so yesterday, better sell it quickly.

I held one over the weekend once by mistake and almost went boobs up.

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My friends I grew up with were born into poor families. They are all 7 figured savers late in their 6th and early 7th decade. How so? They learned early the value of personal wealth, they saved, spent within their means and worked hard.

At the expense of sounding like my grandparents…the youth of today are not willing to do that. Generally, they want it now and they expect someone else to pay for it.

BruceM

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According to “The Millionaire Next Door” where a couple of sales guys set out to figure out millionaires, most start poor, live cheap. Most live in middle class neighborhoods and drive used cars. The doctors and lawyers in the big houses with fancy cars? High income, spend it all, not much saved. Now we’re not talking the 1% but more like the 90-99% self made millionaires like this board.

Poor? Dad worked at the utility company made $27K when he retired in 1987 after 30 years. I started at $30K a year later fresh out of college. We did have a TV. Enough to eat. Lots of homemade and hand me down clothes.

Mom, though, grew up hungry and “no indoor plumbing” poor so she always worked and that probably dragged us from lower middle to middle. She painted, wallpapered, fixed up old houses. When I was 12 she discovered a knack for selling real estate and never looked back. Only woman in her office. After three jobs with raging sexist bosses she opened her own office in a back room at home and taught me about amortization and paying interest. I typed her offers and answered the phone. Worlds youngest real estate secretary!

At 24 I discovered stocks and a bit later, maybe 27 the Fool. I remember 7% then 2% commissions. Mom hated stocks, some dumb uncle lost money. She made it to a million at around 62 buying crappy houses, cleaning them up, renting them and selling them. I didn’t want to work 16 hour days like her. I’m the only kid out of 4 that ever became even a little bit wealthy. My brother is 64 and his net worth is negative 6 figures. Yikes.

So here we are.

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Hey Paul !

N2 fix sounds good … will it actually work on the massive mid-west corn acres? Dunno.

If the technology is finally developed to be nearly 100% effective, it could work … but at what cost for the final product? Cost for the farmer is a major factor as profit margins are rather small (thus we have large farm sizes).

Also, this is a “not natural” condition. N2 fixing is not natural for a corn plant. What will happen further down the road? Like multi-flora rose (that stinkin’ stuff!) was supposed to be a “living fence to hold livestock.” It was promoted by the Illinois Dept. of Agriculture as a long term labor saving fence. BULL CRAP! We are now continually chopping it out of the fence rows and it has gone rampant in our timbers and roadsides.

However, if time proves it to be sustainable, profitable, and controllable it could have a place in our seed shed. We’ll see …

BTW - where do you live?

Thanx,
Rich (haywool)

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To talk about money was considered so vulgar it never happened in our family.

My Mum was widowed twice, very young, and had to raise 5 children 14 and under, in a country beloved by, but foreign to her…New Zealand. I had no idea about money except for my modest weekly allowance.She never talked about bills. Later in life when I arrived in America I was amazed to hear how easily Americans talk about money.

In NZ at that time, school was free, doctors were free, dentists till 18 were free, music lessons a modest amount, upkeep of ponies mostly outside no big deal.Later for older siblings University was also free.

When I went to Europe I found out from relatives my mother had been brought up in great luxury with many servants. I know she had “chosen” New Zealand when traveling around the world because she said there were no rich people and no poor people, but I had no idea what she had come from.

I did know she had never been in a kitchen till she was married with one and a half children and suddenly needed to ask a neighbor how to cook. “Tea, toast, meat and vegetables” were her requests, but that seemed merely a family fable, as meals were great… we lived modestly.(I’m number 4)
When she died, we found she had left nearly all her money to charity,(she thought inherited money was bad for the character) and as I have mentioned before, had also left the five of us with 10 foster children around the world to support. I had no education about money, had won a scholarship for University in England, got a little pocket money from Mum, but had never had anything to complain about.

My husband on the other hand, was the child of refugees.

He grew up in London when the best of rations in the family, like eggs, were only given to him. His father walked, to save bus money. Oxford education was free, he changed from being a barrister to go to an American business school, had solid jobs, and we lived modestly like other young exec families. I happened to teach in a private school where the kids’ families were SO rich that one boy of 11 donated three acres of land to the school, and others came to school by taxi.
So DH and I could joke about money…

DH did OK and we put kids through college etc. Now that we are retired we have a financial advisor we like, and I have my own little portfolio, guided by the Motley Fool every time I buy something. I’ve been with Motley Fool since 1994 I think, when it was very small. They’ve helped me SO much that it will be no skin off my back to buy my grandson his first car this year…

I am very lucky that my husband ( a businessman who was never interested in money) is kind and generous and also helps our kids as needed.

But as we live in America, I try to tell our kids to be sure to save for retirement, as life here is very expensive…and saving regularly is important. I really really hope my 50-year-old with kids has been doing that.

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4) even in 2022, a family of four can usually find a way to be above the poverty level on a less than $40,000 income ( https://www.payingforseniorcare.com/federal-poverty-level ). That $40,000 income is the “4% rule” on a $1,000,000 nest egg…

Just a quick addendum. When you’re 33 1/2 years old, your spouse is 32 years old with 2 kids, your SWR is NOT 4%. That’s because you have far more than 30 years remaining, probably closer to 55 years. And if you’re 55 years old, and using a 30-year timeframe, most likely those two kids are out on their own already (hopefully at least).

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At the expense of sounding like my grandparents…the youth of today are not willing to do that. Generally, they want it now and they expect someone else to pay for it.

The thing is, we won’t really know until they reach our age. With all the criticism/ridicule the Millennials got over the last 2 decades, they appear to be doing just what the Boomers did - buying houses, having children, becoming suburban, saving money, starting businesses, etc. Maybe they started a few years later, but they’re also likely to live a few years longer, so it all might even out in the end.

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