the cost of educating your spawn

I was at the grocery store this afternoon, and saw a remote van from one of the local TV stations. As I was heading back to my car, I was observing the reporter and cameraman standing next to the van. The reporter said “hi” to me, so I mosied over to see what was up. He explained that the Gov has proposed making school supplies exempt from Michigan’s 6% sales tax, and the legislature leadership has dismissed the proposal as “an election year gimmick”, so he was there for some public input.

We chatted for a couple minutes, but, as I don’t have spawn in school, I was not the demographic he wanted to survey.

When I got home, I remembered something from the ancient stone-age, when I was in High School. Somewhere around 1969-1970 a court decision held that free public education in Michigan meant free. No more buying textbooks, they were provided. We were even issued 50 sheets of notebook paper, 2 pencils and 1 ball point pen, per semester.

How did we get from being supportive of education to the point of providing free paper and pencils, to being so against enabling education that a tax break on school supplies is denigrated as a “gimmick”?

Gov. Gretchen Whitmer proposes suspending sales tax on school supplies ahead of school year

According to a Deloitte report, parents and families were expected to spend up to $661 per child on school supplies this year. This is a $49 increase compared to last year’s average of $612 per child.

https://www.wxyz.com/news/gov-gretchen-whitmer-proposes-susp…

Shouldn’t be suppressed, I suppose. Last winter, when the size of the state’s budget surplus was realized, the Gov proposed investing the money in education and infrastructure. Of course, the (L&Ses) said “oh no! we need to give all that money to the ‘JCs’”.

Steve

20 Likes

The problem with proofreading you post before hitting “submit”, is you know what you meant, so you read what you typed as being what you meant.

Shouldn’t be suppressed, I suppose.

Should be “surprised”.

Steve

A week ago, driving through a traffic light controlled intersection on a major street in a Nth Autin suburb, I saw 2 (3?) High school age/size young men, holding poster boards that said something like “Donations accepted for school supplies”.

I was amazed that kids in high school were soliciting donations at a traffic light, for school supplies.

Like you, back in my school days, we didnt have to do that.
Being “No Kids”, I dont know how real is this crisis.

:alien:
ralph

High school age/size young men, holding poster boards that said something like “Donations accepted for school supplies”.

Too lazy to wash cars? Old days they would be known as ‘trash’.

How did we get from being supportive of education to the point of providing free paper and pencils, to being so against enabling education that a tax break on school supplies is denigrated as a “gimmick”?

Supply side econ screws the nation in any way possible. Simplistic ideas on saving money.

Not educating children raises the incarceration rate longer term. It costs you far more than a few ballpoint pens. Plus productive adults pay taxes. It costs us several times over.

But it saves money? Ha!!

1 Like

Like you, back in my school days, we didnt have to do that.

Ralph,

Part of my college education in Houston was $800 per semester a full course load. Even Texas was a decent place.

The other part CT was more expensive, but the state picked up 4 parts out of 5. We paid the other 1/5 as I worked my way through school.

Now CT is 4/5s the students and parents. But the taxes are higher locally and state level.

The slow growth of supply side econ is bankrupting the nation. Thank god we are moving on to demand side econ, the good ol days.

I saw 2 (3?) High school age/size young men, holding poster boards that said something like “Donations accepted for school supplies”.

Well, it could be a scam, like the women I see by the side of the road with a sign “single mom, please help”.

Like you, back in my school days, we didnt have to do that.
Being “No Kids”, I dont know how real is this crisis.

Public schools in Michigan have dropped a lot of classes that used to be routine, like auto shop, wood shop, metal shop.

The one that freaked me out was when my coworker asked for recommendations for driver’s school for her spawn. I said “I had driver’s ed at Kalamazoo Public, free”.

But, we know the mantra now. Everything has to be rationed by ability to pay.

Steve

2 Likes

Part of my college education in Houston was $800 per semester a full course load. Even Texas was a decent place.

The other part CT was more expensive, but the state picked up 4 parts out of 5. We paid the other 1/5 as I worked my way through school.

Same in Michigan. When I started at Whatsamatta U, undergrad tuition was something like $18/hr, with a full semester load being 15 hrs, so $270, plus books. Grad school in 81 was $42/hr.

In the early 70s, the state of Michigan covered 75% of university costs, with the students covering 25%. I made more than enough working part time at Radio Shack to cover all the college costs, plus fancy car.

Now, the state only covers about 30%, and the students shoulder 70% of the costs. Impossible to keep even with a part time job, so kids graduate with a five figure debt.

The chart in this article only covers state funding vs tuition from the early 80s on.

Four reasons why Michigan college prices have skyrocketed

In 1990, Michigan sent $1.06 billion to the state’s public universities. If state spending on higher education had remained steady in 2014, when adjusted for inflation, universities would have received $1.92 billion. Instead, colleges got $1.26 billion, a 34 percent decrease after inflation.

The share of public university budgets coming from the state budget plummeted from 48 percent in 2001-02 to 21.5 percent in 2013-14, according to a report issued by the nonpartisan Michigan House Fiscal Agency. During that same period, the share of college budgets supported by tuition jumped from 44 percent to 71 percent.

https://www.mlive.com/education/2015/02/four_reasons_why_mic…

The evening news ran the report the guy I talked to was setting up for. For the average parent, the tax waiver would save about $40/spawn/year, but the (L&Ses) and the challenger for Gov are howling foul. Bet they would be all smiles if that money was going to the “JCs” instead.

Steve

1 Like

Four reasons why Michigan college prices have skyrocketed

Data points not reasons.

There is only one reason. The results of supply side econ have made everything in the US economy relatively more expensive. The decline in real GDP growth has crippled our nation. It was always stupid to rely on supply side econ. Being smart by saving pennies has cost us dollars.

The SALT deduction meant higher taxes on the wealthy on the state level because the wealthy would get it off their federal taxes. But lower top bracket taxes on the federal level and limiting the SALT deduction has meant fewer federal dollars going to state and local bond issue projects.

All we have been doing is listening to lies about poor rich. Instead of investing much in America, they invested elsewhere. There were a few excuses for that.

We paid them to leave by not make corporate taxes high enough to want tax deductions in the US. There were not the major savings in the US tax code to stay in the US building factories. Yes the corporations paid zero at times in taxes. Just another reason to build elsewhere since there were limited loopholes to exploit.

We challenged them to stay by how inefficient for profit medicine is. Factories at the end of the day build the US economy the most. But the most ridiculously mismanaged factor are healthcare costs.

With all that in mind the costs of climate change are a build out with huge economic growth written all over them. But the same lets save a few pennies crowd want to be heard being dumb again. It is always save a penny lose a few dollars.

The majority of Americans know better.

One of the financial advantages I had was that most of my education was free. It was also varied.

I guess you would call my first exposure to college (and what might be called home-schooling today) was that may mother was taking the first of her three masters degrees when I was a small child and, once she had gone through the usual nursery rhyme stuff, started reading her textbooks to me as bed-time stories. She got her homework done and I learned art history, anthropology and a couple of other courses well enough that I could probably still ace a final exam in them today. Later on, my grandmother used to teach Wendy and I how to read financial statements, investment theory etc., but Wendy has already told that story.

In junior high school, besides all the academic stuff, art and music, I had a letter-press printing shop and a wood-working shop.

In high school (OK, admittedly a special place), besides all the academic and advanced placement courses, I took a number of years of machine shop courses, a term of pattern making (for casting), a term of foundry, a term of metallurgy, a term of electrical theory/lab and a term of engineering decision making supported by computer programing on one of the first mainframe time-sharing terminals to be installed in a NYC high school.

Along the way, during elementary school (4th grade, I think) I spent a term of weekends taking the subway to NYU (NY University) to learn astronomy from a bunch of volunteer professors and graduate students, a summer (5th grade, I think) of going to Brooklyn College for a course on ancient Greek culture taught by a college professor. Somewhat later on, between my junior and senior years at high school, the National Science foundation sent me to Carnegie Mellon for the summer to work with a doctoral candidate and his professor/advisor in the electrical engineering department (who enjoyed teaching me electrical theory as well as playing with their project) and to learn computer programing. All of these were free.

My first two years of engineering were at a private school, but heavily subsidized by assorted scholarships (Polytechnic Institute of Brooklyn, now part of NYU), but I got married and finished my EE degree at night school at City College of New York, a free college (at the time, at least) and then took my MBA at Baruch College - also a part of the City university system and nearly free.

So, in retrospect, I believe that, not only was the base curriculum parallel to the best schools in the US in each category, but in the case of both the graduate and undergraduate night schools, the courses were largely taught by adjunct professors who worked in the field during the day and taught pragmatic approaches to the course material at night.

So, the good news is that the education that puts many into debt was nearly free for me and, because of the substitution of practical approaches, rather than the theoretic approach taught by full professors during the day, providing me with more immediately useful tools. The downside to this approach is that, those who attend an Ivy League school form a network of companions who symbiotically can help each other succeed later in life. In the courses I attended, the students were generally older than during the day, had families, jobs and so on and were concentrating on the courses rather than treating school as a social event. While I still have some friends left from those first two years of day college, I can’t think of a single case when anyone I met during the rest of my night school had any sort of a parallel relationship or use in later life. It was every man/woman for themself and I suppose some did better than others.

If asked for advice today, I would likely suggest that, if nearly free, high quality, institutions are not available in the US, then the student should consider getting educated in Europe where there are some outstanding free (or nearly free) schools (assuming they have the academic ability to qualify).

All that said, I rarely paid much attention to the academic background of job applicants - even for technical positions. I was more interested in what they could do on a practical level than how they learned their skills. I ended up with a very eclectic group of very talented (and frequently very unusual) employees who managed to keep me both entertained and making money. But that’s a story for another time.

Jeff

5 Likes

How did we get from being supportive of education to the point of providing free paper and pencils, to being so against enabling education that a tax break on school supplies is denigrated as a “gimmick”?

I don’t know. But here in Texas, the official GOP state platform is for the abolishment of public education altogether. They want all private schools, period. I’m not kidding, that is their platform. No wonder 42 school districts in Texas had to go to 4 day weeks due to staffing shortages. Why work in an industry that your government is harassing?

There is a large part of our population that is anti-learning. That their ignorance is as importance as someone else’s knowledge.

18 Likes

There is a large part of our population that is anti-learning. That their ignorance is as importance as someone else’s knowledge.


Ignorance is not the same as stupidity. It does, however, allow the “space” that would normally be filled with facts to be filled with “alternative viewpoints” of greater interest to their leadership (whether that be political, religious or commercial [employers, advertisers, whatever])

Jeff

4 Likes

“How did we get from being supportive of education to the point of providing free paper and pencils, to being so against enabling education that a tax break on school supplies is denigrated as a “gimmick”?”

In TX, there is a weekend of ‘no sales tax’ on school supplies and clothing. Saves about 8.5% for those who take use of it.

Otherwise, in TX, school teacher salaries are set by the town (or in rural areas - the county). So far, teacher salaries are less than many professionals in other areas. Been that way for 30-40 years.

The call for private schools is often in large cities with a lot of kids just there to kill time until they get out. Despite good intentions from all, kids from broken homes and in inner cities face a lot of problems. Many want private schools to escape from those situations.

Otherwise, the suburbs seem to do fine. Kids get their books. supplies like pencils and paper? Gimme a break. Now it’s laptop computers (sometimes furnished by school funding). 90% of kids probably have a decent phone. Many do their assignments on line. At summer shopping for supplies, a box of pencils or pens is $2 for a dozen or more.

t

1 Like

The issue isn’t the cost of educating your spawn (besides, imnsho, it’s not a cost, it’s an investment).

The real issue is the cost of not educating your spawn.

AW

10 Likes

The real issue is the cost of not educating your spawn

v

building your prison system

Great choice. Obviously a very hard choice to make.

The issue isn’t the cost of educating your spawn (besides, imnsho, it’s not a cost, it’s an investment).

In Michigan, there is apparently no such thing as “investment” to the (L&Ses). There is only spending (bad) and tax cuts (good).

Last winter, the Gov sized up the budget surplus and proposed investing in education and infrastructure, both of which have been underinvested in for years/decades.

Of course, the (L&Ses) proposed tax cuts. The Gov whipped out her Veto stamp.

Whitmer Vetoes Income Tax Cuts, Will Veto Gas Tax Pause

This sweeping tax cut proposal lowered the state’s income tax rate from 4.5% to 3.9%.

In an original plan, this bill also lowered the corporate tax rate from 6% to 3.9%, however, that did not make it in the final plan that was sent to the Governor.

https://www.grandrapids.org/blog/advocacy-government-affairs…

She finally got her plan through the legislature.

Whitmer Tours Mound Road After Delivering $32 Million in Recent Bipartisan Budget to Fix and Expand Roadway

These and future repairs are made possible by the Rebuilding Michigan plan, a five-year, $3.5 billion investment in our highways and bridges, and the bipartisan Building Michigan Together Plan, the largest one-time investment in Michigan’s infrastructure in state history.

https://www.michigan.gov/whitmer/news/press-releases/2022/07…

Mound Rd is a major artery running up through Sterling Heights. It’s one big factory after another. When the project was announced, the local news reported some $8B in commerce flows on that road per year. A few years ago, Mound was in very bad condition. The county and city of Sterling Heights did a quick, temporary, repave on it in 2018, because that was all they could afford, while the state, under the previous Gov, would not do anything about Mound Rd, but had no problem passing two rounds of tax cuts for the “JCs”. Now, with the state pitching in, they finally have the money to really take care of it.

Video of what Mound looked like in 2018 in this news report.

Construction to begin soon for Mound Road in Macomb County

https://www.wxyz.com/news/construction-to-begin-soon-for-mou…

If the (L&Ses) had their way, the money would be frittered away in tax cuts, while roads and schools continue to deteriorate.

Steve

2 Likes

AW: The issue isn’t the cost of educating your spawn (besides, imnsho, it’s not a cost, it’s an investment).


As in all investments, it’s far better to buy low and sell high. As in real estate, the laws favor the participation of the financial industry in the securitization of education (whether charter schools or loans to students) as well as mis-educating the consumer that it is normal to take out large loans to create the image that you will join the middle class (similar to the rational of taking out a mortgage to buy a house that is difficult to afford over the lifetime of the debtor).

Let’s face it, education should be a tool useful to the acquirer in earning a living. There are alternatives, such as unionized construction trades where the on-the-job apprenticeship education is a parallel route. I recently traveled alongside a Canadian gentleman whose vocation was managing a foundry - utilizing skills he acquired over a working tenure of a number of decades. (I was thrilled that my high school courses in pattern-making, foundry, materials and metallurgy - not to mention experience machining various alloys - gave me the vocabulary to discuss what he did for fa living with at least a semblance of understanding.

There is a correlation between what a student studies and how easy it will be for them to earn a living and that gives the basis of establishing the expected value over time of what is spent on education. While there are esoteric such as the reputation of a school when applying for a job, the reverse is also true - if you own your own business, the value of your education, regardless of where you acquired it, is what you end up doing with it.

One of the benefits that I had as a businessman, was understanding how little the “quality” of the schools that people attended was compared to what their aptitudes were. Many of the people who worked for me had degrees in areas which didn’t overlay what they did, but I was apparently adept in understanding the abilities of others (who didn’t realize them for themselves).

My perennial highest earner (sometimes seven figures per year) was a former housewife who had dropped out of school to raise a family and who started out with little technical knowledge (but who could sell ice to Eskimos). Another gifted saleswoman had a bachelors in electrical engineering, a masters in chemistry and a doctorate in psychology - and I hired her to sell CAD systems to architects.

I had a team of two half-wit network engineers who resembled Mutt and Jeff. One was a tall thin Chasid former Talmudic student who had memorized libraries of Cisco and other manuals, but had no practical aptitude, the other was a short, stocky half-Puerto Rican/half-Dominican who had trouble remembering his own name, but given access to manuals could magically make the most ornate network design sing. Working together they netted to four wits.

The list could go on and on, but, in short, the employees of my firm were an eclectic mixture of strangely talented people who simultaneously kept me entertained with their diversity and kept money rolling in because of their unique talents. While some had significant educational backgrounds, many of them were self-taught and had far less impressive formal educational backgrounds. To the best of my knowledge, none of them had any background of paying off student loans.

Jeff

4 Likes