The Essence of Our Board

Esteemed Members of the Saul Board,

Recently I asked Saul if he feared Sentinel One coming after CrowdStrike. He said no, and put his trust in the numbers CrowdStrike is delivering. CRWD has moved up recently from the low 180s to 230. Sentinel One released numbers as they prepare to go public. The numbers are far worse than CrowdStrike’s.

Someone pointed out all the risks Upstart lists, some that sound very scary. Upstart has gone from the low 80’s to the 170’s before falling back to the 120’s, still a solid gain in a short amount of time.

Someone watched a presentation on Snowflake and came away fearing their projections for 2029. Saul watched the same presentation and came away marveling at their performance. Snow is obviously down from it’s all-time high in the 400’s, but in the last three months its gone from the 180’s to 240s.

These two things are critical to thriving here:

  1. We invest in what IS, not what could be - good or bad.

  2. We respect what could negatively impact our stocks, and don’t whistle past graveyards. But we deal with the fear when it becomes reality. We seriously consider what catalysts might drive a stock price higher but that is secondary to what is: performance, execution.

It’s critical to realize that human beings are hardwired to overrate threats. Not dying is very helpful. But we’re not built for a world of 24/7 news broadcasting fears. So, controlling our fears here, where there’s serious volatility, is essential. There is always - always, always - reason to fear what might happen to a stock.

On a personal note, my beloved Grandma Sophie lived with great anxiety that a big dept store would run her husband Sam’s little pharmacy out of business. It never happened. Think of how much joy and quality of life was damaged, for no reason, by fears. Her fears on this were ever-present and since the ol’ gal could talk (have mercy) were expressed more often than the sun shines in Phoenix.

I spent 11 years in LA, where masses of people are ruled by dreams of glory that a) never comes and b) when it does often fails to make up for the lean years. I know many people in their 50’s who are now in serious trouble due to basing their financial future on what could happen.

So, whether the imagined future is good or bad, the key point is it does not exist. To live, or invest, as if it does is questionable at best. Consider Fastly. While most of us owned it, it tanked from the 120’s to the 80’s after a calamitous ER. Most of us raced out like George Costanza at a kids birthday party on fire. When the bad thing happened, we got out and most of us still made money.

Will Stitch Fix reinvent retail clothing? Will Teladoc reinvent healthcare? And both reap big gains? Maybe. But it no longer makes sense to me to invest in what could be. And though TDOC, like SNOW, has come back off recent lows, the fact is our board washed its hands of it about a year ago and it is DOWN for the last twelve months while our stocks have soared.

Lastly, I have contributed oongatz to this board lately, and to make that right, am now hard at work on a big report on what may be my favorite company in our universe. The leaders understand this post better than any we own as the leaders focus relentlessly on giving customers what they actually ask for, and more importantly what they’re actually buying.

This stock has risen and fallen in popularity here several times. But from my neck of the woods it has the strongest CEO, best culture, strongest narrative and therefore is most likely to maintain its current growth. None of our companies is more battle tested. And, at the risk of blowing up my own post with hypocrisy/contradiction, I think it is most likely to surprise to the upside going forward. In fact, based on how strong I feel the actual company is, if I could only own one of our stocks it would be this one.

Best,

Broadway Dan

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Sounds like he is describing Zoom…just an educated guess…am I close?

The great thing about investing is that there are many ways to “win” or make money…

I am one that tends to sell less often once I have established a position…

Contrary to many on this board, I still own Zoom, Shopify, Tradedesk, Zscaler, OKTA, MomgoDB, and Twilio…

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Someone just sent me a hostile email making it excessively clear this is Saul’s board, not “our” board.

Apologies if anyone else finds my use of “our” presumptuous. I respect their point. My post in hindsight could use an edit.

Saul, and only Saul, should decide what is essence of this board. I’ve just put a lot of hours into some of my posts here, including many this week, spend so much time thinking about it and lurking I do feel like a part of the community. And while I do think a key part of the style is to invest in what is, not would could or might be, again, what exactly the essence of it is, is for the Big Man alone to decide.

I guess the nice thing about posting in public is if you get egotistical, the herd will slap you down. Message received!

Anyway, a good Saturday night to all.

Best,

BD

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Someone just sent me a hostile email making it excessively clear this is Saul’s board, not “our” board.

That someone sure could use a banana daiquiri to calm down.

Technically, according to the letter of the law, this is Saul’s board.

But the spirit of this board is much, much vaster. Ingrained as it has been from the beginning with Saul’s expertise and prodigious investing insights and behavioral discipline, many members here have absorbed those lessons over many years and have collectively made the board much stronger than Saul could have on his own.

By, for example, bringing new stocks to Saul’s/Our attention.
By providing highlights of the danger signs so that we don’t fall into group-think
By offering up to Saul questions to work through and arrive at what might be counter-intuitive ideas
By supporting each other emotionally, since we all know that not making emotionally rash decisions is key

BD, you show much humility in being willing to acknowledge Someone’s moralizing wedgie, but in this case, humility is not what’s needed; rather, a celebratory acknowledgment of what we’ve become as a community is what deserves a banana sundae.

Also, can’t wait for your long post about Twilio…

Hugs,

Monkey

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Dan, you don’t have to publicly apologize because someone sent you a hostile message off-board. There was nothing wrong with your post that I could see.
Best,
Saul

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I just want to jump into the fray for a minute so this gem from Dan isn’t missed completely:

So, whether the imagined future is good or bad, the key point is it does not exist.

Nailed it. The problem with the future is that it doesn’t exist now – so if you predict it now, you may be right, and you may be wrong. Trends don’t always play out like even the smartest people expect. In addition to Fastly, Dan mentions StitchFix and Teladoc as companies that many think are “the future,” and who knows, they may be! – but the business results in the present aren’t as impressive as many other companies’.

To Dan’s point – you can invest this way if you want, but you didn’t learn it from Saul. You can try to predict the future: we don’t. We don’t need to. Crowdstrike and Datadog and Docusign and many others are doing amazing right now in the boring ole present. (Of course we think this will continue, but that’s not a prediction, it’s just based on experience with winners that tend to keep winning…and it could be wrong.)

No one on this board claims perfection, of results or even of method. But many of us are showing our returns monthly, year after year. If you can do better investing a different way, by all means vaya con Dios. If not, maybe try to learn something from Saul! It has helped a LOT of us.

Bear

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To Dan’s point – you can invest this way if you want, but you didn’t learn it from Saul. You can try to predict the future: we don’t. We don’t need to. Crowdstrike and Datadog and Docusign and many others are doing amazing right now in the boring ole present. (Of course we think this will continue, but that’s not a prediction, it’s just based on experience with winners that tend to keep winning…and it could be wrong.)

Very true…pre pandemic AYX was one of Saul’s #1 conviction stock and was winning a lot until COVID hit, and then it got derailed and has yet to recover.

Thanks Broadway Dan for the write up and I can’t wait to see what they company will be. My guess is AYX. ;O)

Shep.

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Hi Bear:

you mention Datadog as an example of a company (but not a stock!) that is doing great right now. I’ve watched a substantial investment in datadog (bought at its recent peak) decline by ~20% or more, and because it is a fairly significant piece of my portfolio, I’ve got possibly a year (? just a guess) before it recovers and presents me with some kinds of gains. That’s an entire year of forgone gains. Have you found yourself in a similar situation with a a ‘great company’ that simply did not reward your investment? Where is the dividing line for you in the decision to cut bait? Thanks

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That’s an entire year of forgone gains. Have you found yourself in a similar situation with a a ‘great company’ that simply did not reward your investment? Where is the dividing line for you in the decision to cut bait? Thanks

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you mention Datadog as an example of a company (but not a stock!) that is doing great right now. I’ve watched a substantial investment in datadog (bought at its recent peak) decline by ~20% or more, and because it is a fairly significant piece of my portfolio, I’ve got possibly a year (? just a guess) before it recovers and presents me with some kinds of gains. That’s an entire year of forgone gains. Have you found yourself in a similar situation with a a ‘great company’ that simply did not reward your investment? Where is the dividing line for you in the decision to cut bait? Thanks

Hi Cold mountain,

Taking the liberty to give an answer to your question, on this board we tend to evaluate a company on the success of its business rather than the rise of its stock, and we feel that the stock price will follow along. Datadog’s business is doing very, very well, and it will lap the “Covid Scare” quarter in this coming quarter, which will also improve its year-over-year results. I for one wouldn’t even consider selling a company that is as successful and dominant in its field as Datadog because its stock has taken a little rest. I don’t think that Bear would either.

Saul

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Have you found yourself in a similar situation with a a ‘great company’ that simply did not reward your investment? Where is the dividing line for you in the decision to cut bait? Thanks

IMHO this is the critical question. In essence how does one discern the clues in time to act on them?
And the next question is–Why is there so much disagreement about the clues.?

I sold out of DOCU at a nice gain because I anticipated that its e-signature business would slow down and its newer product offering would be a while coming to fruition. I noted the recent quarterly results and am still not sure if I was ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ but either way I’ve moved on.

On the other hand I just recently sold a stock at a substantial loss because I missed the import of some comments in the quarterly conference call which pointed to an upcoming slow quarter after which the stock tanked… I’ve moved on from that as well.

But I am no closer to an answer for the question that you have raised.

cheers

draj

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Have you found yourself in a similar situation with a a ‘great company’ that simply did not reward your investment? Where is the dividing line for you in the decision to cut bait? Thanks

IMO, valuation is the hardest part with the least clarity. And that is more true of high growth stocks like those followed here. Stocks can seem overvalued, and can continue to seem overvalued for a long time if the growth rate continues.

And they can get “corrected”, and drop and may stay down. And I’ve had success in “cutting bait” and not looking back, and though it is not Saul’s strategy I personally have had even more success by waiting it out. Stocks of high quality companies can stay low for a long time (sometimes years), then suddenly skyrocket when they hit the growth part of the S-curve.

You have to determine what works for you, and certainly the discussions here help educate each of us on how to develop our own methodology.

Enjoy,
Brian

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Hi Bear:

you mention Datadog as an example of a company (but not a stock!) that is doing great right now. I’ve watched a substantial investment in datadog (bought at its recent peak) decline by ~20% or more, and because it is a fairly significant piece of my portfolio, I’ve got possibly a year (? just a guess) before it recovers and presents me with some kinds of gains. That’s an entire year of forgone gains. Have you found yourself in a similar situation with a a ‘great company’ that simply did not reward your investment? Where is the dividing line for you in the decision to cut bait? Thanks

Coldmountain,

Remember when Crowdstrike fell from nearly $100 in August of 2019 to almost $30 in February of 2020 while the business was doing great? That was a difficult one. Datadog declining by 20% is nothing, in my opinion.

Saul gave you a good answer too, and note that he said we focus on business results and we feel that the stock price will follow along. Sometimes that takes a lot of time – many months is not unusual. And sometimes the stock gets ahead of the business, and then it pulls back for months before it takes off again.

All this is totally normal and should be expected. If you buy a stock and it goes straight up in a matter of days, count yourself lucky. They don’t always do that on our preferred timeline.

Bear

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A couple thought from my lurking here in Saul’s world …

BroadwayDan, thanks for the initial post here – your message is a good reminder of one of the main premises of this board – that the investment tenets established by Saul are based on the premise to invest in the hear & now.

And another tenet that is getting overlooked in the diversions of comparing Saul’s stock selections to ones he doesn’t own (or sold out of) is - own a small number of stocks, so that you can follow them closely and look for the signs of when the hear & now is changing.

Saul’s recent post (which was hijacked into a Shopify comparison) was another great reminder of this second tenet. Why did Saul sell the other stock in question – and how do he and others here make a lot of their decisions to buy or sell? Because they religiously read the press releases, quarterly reports, and every earnings call transcript for the stocks they own. That way they can determine if the fundamental factors on which they based the decision to own the stock has changed. That isn’t always the reason, but is often the case in these decisions.

This is relevant on ColdMountain’s question of “Where is the dividing line for you in the decision to cut bait?”. As defined by Saul’s philosophy, the line is when the fundamental premise of owning the stock has changed. In the example posed by ColdMountain (and an example I find myself in with a couple stocks I purchased or added to in February), DataDog and other growth stocks took a big tumble while the fundamental nature of the businesses did not changed. The market was reacting to another issue – in part rising interest rates causing a rotation out of growth stocks.

This isn’t a WSB “diamond hands” philosophy of holding in the face of challenges. It is a tenet of the principles established here to determine your premise for ownership - and when the data changes, re-evaluate.

Many of those who are well educated on the stocks (they only own the amount they can follow - and follow them closely) took this latest dip as a buying opportunity. Others who “follow” Saul and others without doing all the needed homework fretted over the stocks and in some cases scrambled for the exits (missing on the recent comeback of these stocks).

I, unfortunately, fall in the middle – I own too many to follow closely so choose to follow select ones closely and not others. As a relative newbie here on this board (found about 1 year ago), I am slowly revising my portfolios and trimming down the number of stocks so that I can follow them more closely. Not all my stocks are “Saul stocks” for my own personal reasons, but the basic tenet applies to many investment philosophies and strategies – if you are buying individual stocks, do your own research and stay on top of the stocks you own. Don’t just buy them because Saul/Bear/Cramer/Motley-Fool/etc says to buy them. That is something I used to do with above market success but got away from 10 years ago.

Just my 2 cents from an older Fool is learning new tricks - and who wishes that I had learned more from my earlier investing mistakes and found Saul’s board years ago. If I had, I would be one of those retired by now. But all is not lost, thanks to the run over the last few years I am ahead of schedule for my planned 2026 exit from the daily work grind - just before I hit 65.

All the best.

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Hi Born Giants Fan, and everyone else:

This is a more general comment on your, Saul’s, Bear’s, Gaucho’s, virtually EVERYONE’s exhortations to ‘not take anyone’s advice and do your own research…’

In all honesty, I have extremely limited time and capability to do the kinds of research that seem common on the board. I work in a technical field, IT related, and I am daily confronted with utterly perplexing problems that the combined resources of our overstretched IT department/dbas/plc programmers/network engineers are unable to understand – these range from networking issues that from one day to the next go south, to plc issues, to external threat security issues, to azure/cloud quirks… I spend much of my day in a very tiny corner of the IT world, and each day come away convinced yet again that nobody (nobody!) really understands any of this. If they did, we wouldn’t spend so much time trying this, or that, or in the end simply rebooting, to try and get things up and running again. My experience is not unique, from what I have learned in conversations with others in the field.

For those reasons I find it ludicrous to think I could take a company like CRWD (which I have invested in!) and examine its technology, industry, efficacy, competitive moat, etc etc and come up with a truly informed opinion. I know what I’m capable of, and I would be fooling myself if I thought my opinion was worth two figs. What I can do is crowdsource that endeavor, and try and find people who have a track record of careful investing, who know more about tech than I do, who spend their entire waking hours following these things, and weigh carefully their opinions and based on that invest.

Another example that is ripe on this board is UPST. Can anyone on the board with confidence describe the AI models that UPST uses, and why they feel comfortable that they can withstand external economic shocks, external competitive pressures, etc? Can anyone really do more than say ‘well, auto loans are a huge untapped market’, and UPST is gong after them? I certainly can’t. I mostly just trust what management has said, the company’s results so far, and that there are not yet any real competitors that I can see. Deducing from all that a competitive moat is a very long way away from knowing and understanding a competitive moat, for example. And it seems to me that that precise kind of knowing and understanding is needed if one is going to know when to DIVEST in a company.

It may be that I am applying the standard of ‘knowing’ that I need for my job, and in investing it is much more gooey. But the massive write-ups I see here on the leading companies are vastly more confident than anything I think I could produce.

I realize this is very much counter to Saul’s and everyone else’s advice here, but I have fooled myself so many times, in areas of life that are actually truly important (things far more important than money) that I am now much more skeptical of my capabilities in most areas.

I hope I haven’t branded myself as a freeloader and an ingrate, but I just feel like any other position would be rank fakery.

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Hi ColdMountain – “a freeloader and an ingrate”? Not at all. And if you are, so am I. You are like many others here – I certainly do not have time to do serious deep dives on most of the stocks I own either. I can’t even find the time to read this board on a daily basis :wink:

My apologies if my post seemed like it was poking at you – that was certainly not my intent. I posted because I feel it is important that if someone were to join in the fun here, they need to know the risks and the processes that Saul outlined in the knowledge base. This board is currently following and investing in high growth stocks. Many of these are volatile and any change in the fundamentals can result in drastic changes in the stock price – up or down.

BTW, I have been having some detailed investing discussions with my son and he says that sometimes I can get “preachy” . Again my apologies if I have done so. I think it is an artifact of my 2 years in seminary 40 years ago :wink:

Regarding having a deep technical knowledge of how these companies operate and the internal workings of their solutions … While I am in the tech industry with a couple engineering degrees, I have only a rudimentary understandings of many of these companies. But as has been pointed out by here, that is not necessarily part of the decision process. Decisions are based on certain fundamentals – and these other factors may or may not play a part. It is a change in those fundamentals that a decision to DIVEST is made – not a deep understanding or the technical inner workings on the technology.

That said, I do like to read the posts from those who directly interact with the companies and their educated views of the products. Will it sway my decision to buy? Maybe, maybe not.

UPST is a good personal example – I have some knowledge of how a select set of Chinese companies have been using AI in the lending process – and have been quite successful with micro lending and extremely low default levels. I posted my thoughts on this board a couple months ago about how I was concerned that UPST won’t have the detailed access to an immense amount of data on each potential borrower that the Chinese companies have due to the intense mobile usage and data access in China. For that reasoning, I held off on buying UPST. While I stand by my comments and opinions posted about the more limited access to the level of user data compared to their counterparts in China (because AI is driven by data and more data = better results), I was clearly wrong in the short term as the growth and fundamentals numbers drove the stock up significantly.

In other words, sometimes understanding more of the inner workings can lead you down a path that Wall Street isn’t concerned about.

In my prior reply I was certainly exhorting the point that if one partakes down this path, they should follow all of the tenets prescribed by Saul and team – including holding a limited number of stocks and taking the time and effort needed to make the investment decisions. I think the results clearly show, those who have obtained the best results here follow those tenets - though they may have different investments they choose based on their interpretations of the data.

And I for one am certainly an imperfect disciple here who doesn’t follow all of them as intended. And while I may exhort on occasion, I will leave the preaching to Saul and his elders :wink:

All the best

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Cold Mountain,

I am not in tech all. I don’t understand any of the tech that Crowdstrike uses and leases. But what I do is follow the numbers: revenue growth (sequential and year-over-year), ARR, gross margins and operating margins and net profit margins, and free cash flow and free cash flow margins, and growth of total customers and enterprise customers, and how well and how often the company issues successful new products and modules. I use these and other metrics to get a feeling for how the business is going and growing. I don’t seem to need to understand the tech. I can understand the numbers quite well usually.

Best,

Saul

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Cold mountain, I’m on a similar boat. I work in a tech company and happen to know the main product of CrowdStrike (essentially, behavioral antivirus). Two points:
1- their core tech is not far superior from their competitors, such as CarbonBlack (acquired by VMware a couple years ago), but it’s good. And it’s innovative which is the key here.
2- However, the breadth of their solution is very interesting. They do more stuff than their competition. This is a big deal, since the security market is inundated with more than 2,000 products. An average corporation deploys about 75. A large bank, about 250. It’s a management nightmare and every CIO would celebrate if they could deal with less products.
3- You are right, nobody knows how really good CrowdStrike and Upstart tech are in comparison to every product out there, but they innovate faster, which is key for a tech company. But does it even matter? Crowdstrike is executing extremely well and efficiently. They don’t have to be perfect, they just have to be better than the other guy, investing their R&D dollars wisely. And it seems like they do.

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