The Ukraine War

Ever notice foreign countries going to war because of America?

Ever notice we are not in those wars?

Ever notice the locals don’t ask, “You are our local national leader can you stop allowing America to tell us to fight a war”?

See as we are responsible you might want to give up your governments.

It is incredibly humble of them to have no say and itchy trigger fingers.

I am sure the dead are impressed by their humility

Yes, Tamhas’ comment is channeling the “domino theory” we were fed during the 50s and 60s.

That being said, what would have happened if FDR had not pushed so hard, in 40 and early 41, to send supplies and arms to the UK, to keep them fighting the “Berlin brownshirts”, until the US got in it?

Years ago, I had a copy of this book. Sold it, along with much of the rest of my library in the early 80s. Obtained a copy from the library a few months ago and read it again. It details the struggles FDR had, trying to get that deal approved by Congress, and how desperately Churchill needed the ships. Ponder if pacifists like Lindbergh had prevented arms and ammo being sent to the UK, and a German invasion had succeeded, because the Brits didn’t have anything to fight with.

P

3 Likes

Well you are sort of making my point. As much as we know this history EU lived through it, right? Then how come they are not prepared to fight Russia? Why my tax $$$ should be sent? I have no problem if EU fought and needed a helping hand, but they are not pulling their weight. If Putin is existential threat, then I would like to know how many non-ukraines lives were lost?

As much as I disagree with Trump on most things, he is correct when he pointed that NATO countries are not doing their part on defense spending.

2 Likes

The EU did not exist in 1939.

Some, more than others. I have noticed that the Poles and the Baltic states have been particularly eager to send material to Ukraine, just as they were eager to join NATO, because they know the nature of their neighbor to the east.

He did indeed warn western Europe to not take gas from Nordstream 2, but take US LNG instead. One of the Baltics did act on that idea, and built a huge LNG terminal some years ago. Not only is that state now free of Russian control of their gas supply, they are now buying gas for less than what Gazprom was charging them, when they had no alternative.

I remember the same “thought leader”, around August of 2019, warning US companies to get their supply chains out of China. At times, that “thought leader” sounded like a hard core cold warrior. Then he did things like take Putin’s side, against the analysis of every US intelligence agency.

The bottom line is the quote attributed to Lenin “when it comes time to hang all the capitalists, they will sell us the rope”. If he didn’t say that, he should have, because the west always takes the path that is easiest and most profitable, today, with never a care about the repercussions.

Steve

1 Like

The theory is that European wars, when ignored for too long, tend to spiral out of control and become world wars. And further the theory is that if it is allowed to go on for too long, much of the free world begins to become not free. And that’s bad for nearly everything, especially world business. So, if left to fester, the USA ends up in the middle of it anyway (because we are the strongest free country of all) to protect our interest of a sufficient number of free countries in the world (to trade with, etc). So the theory goes that it’s better to spend the money up front to avoid spending far more money (and for more lives) later on.

4 Likes

No. It is just Europe’s problem. It is not US problem, not world problem by any stretch. The Ukraine war became worlds problem because of West and US stupidity. The selfish, reckless economic sanction made it a world problem. Otherwise, no one really cares about Ukraine’s border issue.

We should extinguish the colonial mindset. West and US are not the center of the world or the only part of the world that matters.

1 Like

Somehow US worries about democracies in western hemisphere only. US doesn’t need free countries to trade. When in doubt look at China… So you can keep telling yourself these lies or wake up to the fact US is a warmongering nation, which is in perpetual wars.

Isolationism is what lead to both world wars.

We ignore it at our own peril.

Ukraine is a major agricultural producer and exporter, supplying grains and oilseeds to the global market. The country accounts for 10% of the world’s wheat market, 15% of the corn market, and 13% of the barley market. Ukraine is also a major player in the sunflower oil market, accounting for more than 50% of world trade.

3 Likes

What is Japan for 20 Alex?

When was 1812 for 40 Alex?

Larger trading partners are important to your livelihood. I know that seems indirect but it directly means many of your clients can afford you.

Your taxes make our economy efficient but you’ve probably never read any government reports on the cost benefit analysis. Military contractors play a role.

If you’re an immigrant you or your parents came here for this economy not ignorant biases here or where your family came from.

The US economy is well studied. The college level public finance class is the center of why anyone comes here for the economy.

I too am an immigrant’s son.

1 Like

George Kennan, that most astute of Russia observers, described Nato expansion as “the most fateful error of American policy in the entire post-cold war era”.

After the Maidan revolution of 2014 and the start of the Donbas war Henry Kissinger wrote that the only solution was Ukrainian neutrality. Bill Burns, US ambassador in Moscow in 2008, advised Washington that Ukrainian inclusion in Nato was “the brightest of all red lines for the Russian elite”. We ignored all these warnings and pressed ahead. Rachman is of course right that the hand that pulls the trigger bears the guilt. But we signally helped create the conditions for the crime.

1 Like

Re: Democraticly elected govt

You mean that very corrupt govt was elected fairly? Hard to believe.

Russia found Ukraines willingness to fight a surprise.

Putin was a criminal first and only wants to be remembered as a criminal. There are no excuses worth anything that has to do with Nato other than a pretext to play with your mind.

What is Putin’s excuse for the other conquests?

A temporary period of Russian success? Or has the tipping point been reached?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/ukraine-facing-one-of-the-most-powerful-russian-offenses-of-the-war-commander-warns-as-moscow-claims-gains-in-east/ar-AA1tqmYn
Ukraine’s army chief has warned that his forces are facing “one of the most powerful Russian offensives” since the start of the war as Russia claimed it captured more settlements on the eastern frontline.

Russia has steadily been making gains in the eastern Donbas region, which Russia’s President Vladimir Putin aims to capture in full. Reuters, citing open source data, reported that Russia has been advancing at its fastest pace in at least a year.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russia-seizes-more-territory-over-past-week-than-at-any-point-in-2024-bloomberg-reports/ar-AA1tlPZl
Russia has seized more territory in its war with Ukraine over the past week than at any point in 2024, Bloomberg reported on Nov. 1, using Bloomberg Intelligence calculations based on the DeepState map service that tracks battlefield changes in coordination with Ukraine’s Defense Ministry.

For much of the past year, Russian troops launched bloody assaults on Ukrainian positions that often yielded only limited gains. But the relentless attacks are now starting to pay off: In October, Russia made its largest territorial gains since the summer of 2022, as Ukrainian lines buckled under sustained pressure.

Over the past month, Russian forces have seized more than 160 square miles of land in Ukraine’s eastern Donbas region, the main theater of the war today. That has allowed them to take control of strategic towns that anchored Ukrainian defenses in the area, beginning with Vuhledar in early October. This past week, battle has raged in Selydove, which now appears lost.

Ultimately, experts say, these gains, among the swiftest of the war, will help the Russian army secure its flanks before launching an assault on the city of Pokrovsk, a key logistics hub for Ukrainian forces in the Donbas.

1 Like

The biggest battle of the (current) Ukraine War occurs in the USA on Tuesday, Nov 5.

Putin is pouring it onto the battlefield big time, perhaps because he believes his best alternative to blood and treasure spilled ain’t a high probability?

I sure as hell do not know, but doubt the sources of the current hot war zone stories do either, they are just throwing another load into their “attract looks” hopper.

d fb

2 Likes

A couple quibbles with that NYT article. Although Russia has captured a lot, it still hasn’t captured as much as Ukraine gained in the fall 2022 counter offensive.

The graph also just shows Russian gains in the Donbas. What about Ukrainian gains in Kursk, Kharkiv Oblast, and Kherson Oblast?

160 square miles is about the size of Salem, Oregon or Ft. Wayne, Indiana. That’s not nothing, but not particularly exceptional either.

Checking back in on my BMB prediction. In the last 11 days Russia has made almost no progress in the Pokrovsk direction.

To be clear, Russia has made some progress in the general area, but not a lot, mostly just straightening out the salient. Russia likely will grind through Pokrovsk eventually, but in context the first mention of Russia closing in on Pokrovsk in this thread was back in July. The NYT article links to another article about the assault on Pokrovsk–that is almost two months old.

Russia is advancing, just not very fast.

3 Likes

Item on the wire today, Ukrainian troops attacked a North Korean formation, on the Kursk front. Figures. Put the Korean cannon fodder in Kursk, so Russian troops can be moved to reinforce another sector. North Korea hasn’t fought a war in 70 years. The Ukrainians have been at it for over two years. Bet the Koreans are buried where they are, rather than flown home.

1 Like

The introduction of NK troops into the war will be a key point. Once they are actively on the front lines, allies from Europe will be free to send whatever troops and materials they desire. Can’t say about US troops, but improbable at this point. Europe, on the other hand, has stayed out because the war was Russia vs Ukraine. Russia added another combatant into the war–which means each European country (pluos NATO?) is free to so as they choose in the now-open-to-all war.

Nope. Because Putin will say an attack by one NATO country is an attack by NATO. Meanwhile, he will say the NK troops are not allies, but mercs, being paid for with shipments of food and fuel to NK.

Steve

3 Likes

A look from our European allies:

In recent months, Russian forces have maintained “a huge continuous offensive and continuous pressure” in east Ukraine, says Gustav Gressel, senior policy fellow at the European Council on Foreign Relations.

“This is a war of attrition. Capabilities are degrading on both sides,” says Gressel. “It’s a race to see who will reach the bottom first – and on many issues, it seems that will be Ukraine, especially on heavy equipment. Armoured fighting vehicles haven’t been replaced by Western deliveries. And, of course, personnel is a critical issue.”

Russia “doesn’t have more troops or weapons”, says Dr Huseyn Aliyev, senior lecturer at the University of Glasgow and specialist on the war in Ukraine. “But the real shift, where things have changed quite dramatically, is on the Ukrainian side where there’s a big problem in their defensive line."

Essentially, territorial gains are less a show of superior Russian force than an indication that Ukraine’s defences are collapsing. Ukrainian front-line forces are facing the enemy with ever dwindling arms and personnel, slowly but surely unable to plug the holes that Russia is inflicting on its defensive line.

According to Aliyev, “poor organisation” of troops is one of the biggest problems the Ukrainian army faces.

For two years, experienced regiments that have been fighting against Russia have received hardly any reinforcements. And instead of fortifying these existing units, “new brigades have been created with less experienced officers and quickly trained troops, mostly from recent mobilisation efforts. They don’t have the same level of morale as the veterans, but these are the brigades sent to stop the Russian advance,” says Aliyev.

The result is that battle-hardened units are depleted and new units deployed on the frontlines are critically inexperienced.