Two Week Update

It’s been a active two weeks since I posted my End of July results and I thought I’d give you an update.

I wrote two weeks ago that after a tumultuous March through June, in which my portfolio had four drops averaging 13.4 points each, July was tranquil, with no major meltdowns, just a zigzag rise. As far as the four drops and rebounds, each low was higher than the low before and each high was higher than the high before. The lows were unpleasant and a bit scary, but it would have been unfortunate to get scared out at one of those bottoms.

Well, the Monday after I wrote that, another drop began and over the course of a week my portfolio dropped from up 77.4% to up 60.9% by this last Monday (a loss of 16.5 points). It finished the week at up 72.7%. That low was also higher than the one before.

Now here’s an update on what I’ve done in the two weeks: Let’s look at it alphabetically.

I added a little to my Crowdstrike position and it has moved up from 4.1% to 4.7% of my portfolio. Then Mongo, I’ve started to lose patience with Mongo. I’ve held it for 21 weeks now, and it is up 7% in the 21 weeks while the rest of my portfolio has been hitting it out of the ballpark. I have to admit that I don’t understand why. I trimmed a little, just dropping my position size from 11.6% to 11.0%. I added some back to Trade Desk after their great earnings, replacing some of the shares that I had prematurely sold last month. Then there is Twilio. I was really a bit disappointed having been taken in by all the exaggerated hype about how Flex and Sendgrid were going to explode their revenue, and I reduced my position size a little bit. I guess I was expecting more than we got. It’s still in 3rd place but at 16.8% instead of 17.6. No changes in Alteryx, Okta, Smart, Zoom or Zscaler. I must say that Okta, Alteryx and Zscaler continue to be amazing.

And how about Square ??? You’ll remember that at the end of last month it was in last place at 2.5%. When the share price fell precipitously from $82 to $68 after earnings (dropping its position size even further), I thought that it was ridiculous and I added a good size amount at about $69. But then came the warning about the Fed setting up its own payment system and it just seemed too complicated for me, and I sold out of my small position completely. Even though further excellent discussion of the Fed announcement on the board showed that what the Fed was doing was unlikely to impair Square, I didn’t look back, and it never crossed my mind to get back in. I almost felt a feeling of relief that I was out.

Why? Well, look, Square is still bouncing around where it was over a year ago, that’s over a year ago (!) …while at least four of my other nine companies are up over 100% just from the beginning of this year. I seem to have been correct last December when I sold three quarters of my previously large Square position and reinvested in other positions.

My reasons at the time were: First that its customers were unbanked tiny merchants, and also restaurants, both of which would be hit hard in a recession. Second, they were really in a small niche, and while they could move upstream somewhat, there was no way they could “take over the world” the way some of my other companies could. Third, Sarah Friar left, and although she was adequately replaced, it now seems likely that, as CFO, she had a good view and she left because she saw the handwriting on the wall… perhaps that Square might continue to be a successful company, but that the glory days were over. She may have also disagreed with the focus on bitcoin. Fourthly, Square has plenty of effective competition (PayPal, etc), while companies like Alteryx, Twilio, Okta, Zscaler, etc, don’t seem to have much effective competition. Fifthly, Square’s market cap is $23 billion and that is much harder to quadruple than a company with a market cap of $3 billion. And sixth and finally, Square is still where it was more than a year ago, which means others are seeing it the same way I am. And you can add to that two more factors, first, their relatively low gross margin compared to our other companies, and second, Jack Dorsey in the recent conference call saying “I love bitcoin!” which promises even more focus on bitcoin. Well, I probably should have listened to those reasons and put the money somewhere more profitable sooner, but I often have to bounce around a little before I get it right.

My current positions are:


**Zscaler		 	20.7%**
**Alteryx 		18.8%**
**Twilio			16.8%**
**Okta			12.3%**
**Mongo 		 	11.0%**
**The Trade Desk	         8.2%**
**Crowdstrike		 4.7%**
**Zoom      		 3.9%**
**Smartsheets 		 3.3%**

As you can see, the first six are in the same order and are roughly the same sizes as two weeks ago. The only changes are that Crowd has moved ahead of Zoom, and Square is gone.

I hope that this has been interesting, and maybe useful.

Best,

Saul

163 Likes

Very useful. I noted that SQ has a market cap of almost 28 billion. Mid cap is 1 billion to 5 billion, so sq is a solid large cap stock, and it is harder for them to make large gains.

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Thank you, Saul. I am on the same page, disappointed at MDB and TWLO’s performance. But the price action seems to be changing for both. Let’s keep our fingers crossed.

Additionally, TTD’s earnings were not as strong as I had hoped for. I had my highest confidence in TDD but now it dropped to the third.

Finally, I am not as convinced by OKTA, but OKTA is, for some reason, highly favored by the market, even more than AYX and ZS.

The following is my conviction ranking on the Saul stocks:
AYX
ZS
TTD
TWLO
ZM
OKTA
MDB
CRWD

I don’t have a position at CRWD as of today.

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Very interesting update Saul… thanks for sharing…
always something to learn…

Amazingly, while we differ on TTD (I exited couple of months back and missed amazing run) and OKTA (I have been reducing for over a year, a bit slowly, just due to valuation fears), we seem to align in action over last 2 weeks - I exited SQ, reduced TWLO and been building position in CRWD.
(BTW - I am up 75% YTD… just stellar stellar year so far despite many zigzags are you mentioned)

SQ: While I have been SQ bull for a long time, this earning report was quite a bit flat to me… Honestly, I didnt realize that those two small acquisitions - weebly and what the other one? - made such a big difference last year that they are finding tough to sustain y/y growth rate. Up until before the ER, I have been praising Dorsey’ approach of “deliver more and speak less”… but I saw the ER as “tough to deliver more”… and ofcourse market response to SQ has been challenging for a while… not sure if it is bitcoin focus or FB Libra noise, market is just very jittery about SQ.

Ofcourse, this is not NTNX situation… I think I will dabble into SQ, may be with options, purely because of valuation, but for now, I find I have better home for my money.

TWLO - very similar thoughts to what you expressed… and also Dreamer has expressed as well - Flex has been overhyped… and they will take some time to get SEND synergy… I do believe that TWLO will continue growth, with upcoming election bringing some unexpected upside, however, it may be bit far to keep overly large position. TWLO for me reduced from ~10% at the end of June to ~7% now… partially due to selling shares and partially due to price action.

CRWD seems very promising at 100%+ growth rate… and better valuation than ZM… ofcourse much worse gross margin and cash flow… yet, they are improving on both of them… I built a 5% position now…

Few other thoughts / changes for me:

  1. I thought AYX delivered exceptionally strong results… going into ER, I was reducing on valuation concerns, I went and bought all of that back… its back to my #1 at 20%

  2. MDB continues to look strong potential to me… with relatively better valuation than many on our universe… yes, its lagged others for last couple of months but remember, it went up from $80 at 1st Jan to $174 on on June 19… tremendous run… naturally street is looking to next ER to validate this run… I think relatively low impact of AMZN acceptance of MDB and may be a reduced price now (dropped from $174 in late June to $148 now) sets it up for relatively stronger potential at next ER. I actually added a bit over last two weeks and its my 2nd largest at 18%

  3. ROKU: ROKU to me has been stellar performer… have been adding slowly through the year… now a 10% position for me… and its been up 87% despite building the position over multiple months… looking to hold this for a long time… some excellent discussions on the board on this lately… it is controversial (takes a while for people to digest on why ROKU is doing so well)… which is why it still have lot of upside I think.

  4. TNDM: Bought back a small position after ER… Fantastic ER… growing at >100%… accelerating… all organic… very very attractive valuation…

Here is last 7 quarters y/y revenue growth
39%, 44%, 60%, 71%, 89%, 142%, 174%

at 50% gross margins, this company is trading at PS of 13…

not sure whether its the cloud hanging over healthcare or something else but this one is SHOCKINGLY cheap… all signs show that they will grow at this rate for at-least one more year, may be lot longer than that…
While there are few other names in health care growing at such rate, they are appropriately richly valued (e.g. EXAS 25 PS).
TNDM (at 13 PS) is outlier value today… with no visible hole in the story…

it is a 2% position for me (+ some call options) and looking to add (average up with price).

Apologies for long post… hope its helpful.

nilvest

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Hi Nilvest,

TWLO - very similar thoughts to what you expressed… and also Dreamer has expressed as well - Flex has been overhyped…

Could you expound on this? What about flex do you think is overhyped?

Andy

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What about flex do you think is overhyped?

Hi Andy,

They “launched” Flex in March 2018 (that’s 2018, not 2019!), with a lot of fanfare, and it is still not a “major” contributor (long sales cycle, etc), or even a “medium” contributor, and just possibly a “small” contributor to revenue. That’s over-hyped, wouldn’t you think? Sure they were probably launching a beta, or whatever, and it just came generally available maybe three or four months ago, but still, from all the noise they made about it you would expect it to be almost carrying the company 17 months later. A year ago they were talking about an “oversubscribed beta,” etc etc

Saul

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I too am puzzled by MDB stock lack of outstanding performance. Maybe it’s just that data bases don’t generate much news between earnings. Maybe I have missed something about MDB beyond the last reported numbers, which seem fine. The most bullish thing a stock can do is go up, and MDB seems to be lagging. But ultimately it is all about the numbers so we should know next month.

Why do people hate Mongo?

https://www.quora.com/Why-do-people-hate-MongoDB

for a look at the erratic past of a winner database stock see Oracle

https://www.fool.com/investing/2017/06/19/oracle-stock-histo…

I don’t expect my stocks to perform as well as they they have in the past, I think wall street analysts have finally caught on to what we do here on this board

meanwhile AYX and ZS seem too good to be true.

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Then Mongo, I’ve started to lose patience with Mongo

Let’s not despair at MongoDB just yet. On Aug 10 2018 (1 year ago) the price closed at $63.10, up 136% since! My cheapest shares are up over 350% since March/April of 2018. Yes, the stock has moved sideways a bit, but it has had a tremendous run up in only a year and a half. With a market cap around $8.25bln, there is still a very long runway of growth ahead. Mongo could go up tenfold from here and still be less than half the size of Oracle!

Best,
Matt

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Thank you for posting that Matt. I don’t understand the impatience w MDB. Folks, remember, Atlas has now grown to 35% of MDB revenue ---- AND Atlas revenue is growing 340% YoY. Try to find that level of growth anywhere. And I don’t care about comparing MDB to our other SaaS stocks ---- 136% YoY is incredible. And if our expectations are greater than that, then I think our expectations are a tad (okay many tads) bit unrealistic.

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" With a market cap around $8.25bln, there is still a very long runway of growth ahead. Mongo could go up tenfold from here and still be less than half the size of Oracle!"

some talks about patience. I guess it’s relative. Their reported smashing numbers and they were praised by the board. Now less than 3 months later, they are losing patience because MDB has been trending a bit down. What kind of investing that is? has any news came in the interim to indicate that they deviated from their way in these past several quarters? any concrete and material news? I don’t think so.
Does the market have second though on the valuation it has given MDB? In <3 months isn’t that just volatility maybe contributed by those who ‘lost patience’ in these past couple of months!

yes we will see the numbers in the upcoming release. But we should have a longer view of this.

On the flip side, the ones that continue to climb could be cut down seriously on any bad or perceived bad numbers they report. In those instances, the tune will starkly change just like that.

tj

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Apologies for long post… hope its helpful.

nilvest -

No apology needed. It’s always helpful to see what others hold and why. Your reasoning is clear and makes a lot of sense. Thanks for posting it.

P.S. I couldn’t help but notice this post only covers ~62% of your portfolio. Any chance we can twist your arm to write a full one at the end of the month? :slight_smile:

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Hi Saul,

They “launched” Flex in March 2018 (that’s 2018, not 2019!), with a lot of fanfare, and it is still not a “major” contributor (long sales cycle, etc), or even a “medium” contributor, and just possibly a “small” contributor to revenue. That’s over-hyped, wouldn’t you think? Sure they were probably launching a beta, or whatever, and it just came generally available maybe three or four months ago, but still, from all the noise they made about it you would expect it to be almost carrying the company 17 months later. A year ago they were talking about an “oversubscribed beta,” etc etc

I am not sure yet Saul. How long does it take to get something going that disrupts an entire industry? How long does it take for someone to realize that there is a better way of doing things?

So what is Flex? It’s a call center app. It allows people to take calls, texts, emails into a call center and answer peoples questions and problems. This is at an enterprise level and is all in the cloud. So the call center does not have to rent space out in a building for all their cubicles. They do not have to contract out to a service provider for t1’s for their pbx’s or key systems. Nor do they need to have a broadband connection for their Voice over Ip system (voip). They do not need technicians on site to all their routers, switches, computers, air conditioning, lights, bathrooms, etc, up and running either. 24x7. Then they do not have to hire people to be on site to answer the calls.

So what do they need? They need a group of people sitting at their own homes, on their own internet, logging into flex in the cloud. They need a supervisor sitting in his home, on his internet, watching all the calls, texts, email, going through the system.

So what if someone in Georgia can’t log into flex. Well they have another person in Minnesota that can. The diversity of the system, no outages. But now if your system goes down, so does your call center. Yes they do have back ups, both in systems and in other call centers, but look how much they can save in Flex.

I am willing to give flex a little more time to prove itself, after all they have to ramp up the sales teams, and sell it into an enterprise, which will take a little bit of time to get going.

Andy

https://info.siteselectiongroup.com/blog/how-big-is-the-us-c…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eT8uKoMYlqs

35 Likes

Saul is gracious to share his thinking, but that doesn’t mean you have to agree or follow his every move…

When Saul announced that he exited SHOP, I looked at his arguments and decided to keep my already large position…it has continued to grow…

Do what makes you feel comfortable…after all, it’s your money…

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Saul:

on SQ: you said you sold because…

Square not being recession proof may sound reasonable. But do you know when the next recession will come?

You seem to say that Square has pretty much addressed their market and further ‘large’ growth would be difficult. You didn’t think that when you bought some at %69?
Yes you saw the news about the Fed payment service. That is something well over the horizon and I thought you are not the one to guess what could happen especially when what could happen is not all clear at this point. You said you don’t even give much credence to business guidance so why extrapolate like that?
On Twilio hyping sendgrid (you don’t give guidance credence but you want to believe the ‘hype’?). Sometimes the results happen over time and it will. If you believe that would bump their business in a matter of a few quarters then that was wrong. But I don’t know how the sluggishness of TWLO (the stock) in these past couple of months could be attributed to that in particular. Really?

The competition? do you have indication that it has intensified of late? the Paypal etc… competition has been known since earlier on. So that is not new. Nor is their gross margin.

Friar ‘seeing the writings on the wall’ is pure speculation. I am surprised you would use that as a rational for why you sold SQ.

You don’t give guidance much credence. But you don’t think the drop from >$80 to mid $60 could simply be attributed to their lowering their guidance and their growth?
Wouldn’t the management be the best to see where the business is headed and a good management should know how to temper expectations?

why would you want to see more than the numbers on this one? Haven’t the numbers been excellent?

tj

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Thanks Stocknovice…

I couldn’t help but notice this post only covers ~62% of your portfolio. Any chance we can twist your arm to write a full one at the end of the month? :slight_smile:

sorry, i didnt mean to post whole portfolio… at the same time there isnt much to hide from this board.
for what its worth, here is my current position looks like

I am using round % just to keep it simple
AYX 20%
MDB 18%
ZS 16%
ROKU 10%
TWLO 7%
CRWD 5%
ESTC 5%
OKTA 3%
SMAR 2%
TNDM 2%
Cash 2%

This is 90%… is what I am actively managing…

Beyond that its
2% biotech ETFs(I cant decipher this space and so punted on ETF… long term park
5% on speculative microcaps… I keep changing them at times… they keep me interested in looking for next home run, though not much successful yet.
5% in 401K funds… mandatory crappy funds…

There are times I am overly active and other times I am quiet…

I have been following Saul for many years not but this is the first time I getting results anywhere close to him… because I think for first time this year, i have been able to reduce my biases (specially on valuation… and also on type of businesses) to a point where it is becoming effective… fingers crossed… lets see how far this run goes…

BTW - some of my decisions proven to be really bad this year have been exiting TTD, SHOP and MELI half way through their current run… I feel lucky that AYX & ROKU has really compensated since I exited these three incredibly strong runners this year.

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why would you want to see more than the numbers on this one? Haven’t the numbers been excellent?

I for one don’t think they have been excellent at all, certainly not this year. Reading Sauls reasoning, i thought he explained it very well. They have gone knowhere for some considerable time and his money will be/is placed elsewhere. Also and on numerous occasions he has admitted to making mistakes as we all do and told people not to follow his methods.

With a market cap around $8.25bln, there is still a very long runway of growth ahead. Mongo could go up tenfold from here and still be less than half the size of Oracle!

I used to work at Oracle until 2.5 years ago. But I was in hardware (SPARC processor development), not software (and they no longer do SPARC). But, I’m still pretty familiar with the company. And I will say this, if you think MongoDB can become half the size of Oracle then you have no idea all the things that Oracle does. I mean it’s staggering. I’m sorry, but there is no way Mongo becomes half an Oracle unless it really steps up all the things it offers customers. It’s just not going to happen.

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Let’s not despair at MongoDB just yet. On Aug 10 2018 (1 year ago) the price closed at $63.10, up 136% since! My cheapest shares are up over 350% since March/April of 2018. Yes, the stock has moved sideways a bit, but it has had a tremendous run up in only a year and a half. With a market cap around $8.25bln, there is still a very long runway of growth ahead. Mongo could go up tenfold from here and still be less than half the size of Oracle! – Matt

Good perspective, Matt.

As you note, it’s pretty hard to complain about MDB’s performance if you’re what I call an investor. Instead of a heavily panting momentum chaser. :wink: I’d say “Patience!”, but how absurd is that when we’ve more than doubled this year? LOL.

Just watch if the company continues to perform. If it continues to do so, the share price will do fine.

This is still a tiny company. If there is a reasonable prospect of a ten bagger from here and the company is growing like mad…what can possibly be the problem? Unless it’s a case of skewed expectations.

I’d encourage folks to ask yourself: If shares have more than doubled and I’m dissatisfied with that, is that a problem with the company or with myself?

Rob
long MDB @ ~5.8% of portfolio
Rule Breaker / Market Pass / Supernova Navigator Home Fool & STMP/MTH Maintenance Coverage Fool
He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

36 Likes

I used to work at Oracle until 2.5 years ago. But I was in hardware (SPARC processor development), not software (and they no longer do SPARC). But, I’m still pretty familiar with the company. And I will say this, if you think MongoDB can become half the size of Oracle then you have no idea all the things that Oracle does. I mean it’s staggering. I’m sorry, but there is no way Mongo becomes half an Oracle unless it really steps up all the things it offers customers. It’s just not going to happen.

keep in mind Mongo doesn’t have to “be” half the size of Oracle in order to “be valued” much closer to Oracle.

I won’t use “half the size” because Oracle’s market cap is $180B so that may be a bit of a stretch for MDB to get there in the near future, but let’s say “one-quarter” instead of “one-half”.

4-5 years from now if Mongo keeps growing fast and, let’s say they are still growing 20-30% at that time, while Oracle is growing less than 5%/year (again, 5 years from now), MDB’s market cap could very well be 25% that of Oracle even if their revenue is much less than 25% as much. That would be $45B, about a 5x from where MDB is today, so yes, still maybe a stretch, but most shareholders today would be thrilled to get to $22.5B for MDB five years from now (2.5x from today). I know I would. And that would only put them about one-eighth the market cap of Oracle today, which again, probably does not require MDB’s revenues get to be 1/8th of Oracles if they are growing at a significantly higher rate.

-mekong

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Saul -

Thank you very much for this board. I’ve learned so much. Greatly appreciate your updates, monthly reviews, and the contributions by the long-term members of this board.

I once regarded Square as my favorite stock, so much so, before I read this board, that it was 85% of my holdings till about March/April this year. So much of Square seems or seemed appealing - visionary CEO, excellent CFOs, secular theme, service/subs business, Cash App, and not often talked about but what I highly regarded as another push up would have been the bank charter. However, I sold this past spring, and got into my high growth names, was the fact that SQ did not move much. I’ve listened to every conference call the past few years – SQ typically downplays their guidance, but they have posted consistent and solid numbers. Nothing in the numbers have screamed sell IMO, however, Wall St has still pushed the stock down. So much so, it’s hovered around the range of $65-$82 for most of 2019, with the bulk of it spent in the low $70s. Stocks are projected on the future - this told me the bank charter was baked in, as it would help margins of their SQ capital business but the stock price didn’t carry that extra valuation/multiple to justify it. Secondly, the Cash App, which is growing like a weed, isn’t moving whatever multiple we want, high enough to lead to a higher share price. For the longest time I have valued SQ over Shopify, and I made a good return from it, but I think the market has shown what it’s valuing more - e-commerce vs SQ’s Weebly play into it now. Another point, SQ has been stuck, while for the most part, PYPL, V, and MA have moved up. So whomever is the competitor to SQ has done quite well over the last year, while SQ has been stuck.

I bought ZM too high, at $102. I keep thinking what is their moat, other than it’s easy to use and it works. But the numbers speak to themselves It’s one of those that will be “stuck” till next ER, which should be soon. I feel the same with MDB since my cost basis is in the high $130s. But they seem to have created their own niche, and hard to argue against their results.

FWIW, I agree with those bullish on Roku. IMO, it’s the “next Netflix.” Given it’s recent run up, it’s now my second weighted position.

My holding, in order of weight: MDB, Roku, TWLO, OKTA, AYX, ZM, and ZS. That said, ROKU, TWLO, OKTA, AYX, are all 15.XX% of my holdings. MDB 17%, ZM 10%, ZS 9%. I’m looking to get into CRWD and PINS.

Thank you all for allowing me to learn from you. It’s been such a pleasure.

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