Health care was $170 per capita in 1960 and $10,000+ today….
intercst
4 Likes
In 1960, the median age of the U.S. population was 29.5 years. This was a slight decrease from the median age of 30.2 years in 1950, marking the first time in the nation’s recorded history that the median age declined during an intercensal period.
In 2019, the median age of the U.S. population was 38.4 years. This means that half the population was older than 38.4 and half was younger. The median age is the point that divides the population into two equal halves.
In 1960, the life expectancy at birth in the United States was around 69.66 years for both men and women. Specifically, men could expect to live to 66.6 years, while women lived to 73.1 years. Over the subsequent decades, life expectancy has increased significantly.
As a result, life expectancy at birth for the U.S. population increased 0.1 year from 2018 to 78.8 years in 2019.
Another problem the US won’t educated its own citizens. That is why there is a shortage of doctors and nurses. That is why pharma charges whatever it likes.
BTW the laymen I know who are seniors are usually the most against spending on the education system. Ironic.
@intercst do you want to pay more in taxes for educations?
1 Like
I do, using billionaire’s hoarded wealth.
6 Likes
Of course. I think it’s just nuts that wealthy people living off an investment portfolio can go virtually tax-free, while working folks are taxed up the wazoo. America’s long history of celebrating racism, ignorance and innumeracy makes this possible. All I can do is take advantage of it and offer myself up as an example for why it’s so unfair. (Arithmetic will set you free. {{ LOL }} )
Case in point: The $20,000 rebate I’ll likely qualify for installing a HVAC Heat Pump and other improvements under the IRA Home Energy Efficiency Rebate Program I just outlined in a post.
But I wouldn’t want the education funding being diverted to parochial schools or White Christian Nationalist charter schools.
intercst
10 Likes
Like this one?
Here’s part of the pledge that students take daily:
"I pledge to be truthful in all my works,
guarding against the stains of falsehood from
the fascination with experts,
the temptation of vanity,
the comfort of popular opinion and custom,
the ease of equivocation and compromise, and
from over-reliance on rational argument."
Whoa!
Good write-up on the rise of Christian nationalist charter schools.
Baker A Mitchell Jr. has been making money at this for decades. ProPublica did a piece on him over 10 years ago -
Too late - public education dollars are flowing to opportunistic sleazeballs.
6 Likes
If taxes were higher on corporations investing in America would be fashionable. Your tax burden would be less.
Re: Pay more in taxes for education.
Medicine and education have one aspect in common. Both are profit making ventures, over priced, and eager to get more.
Reining in costs would be a good idea. Ivy League colleges receive far more applications than they can accept. They can charge whatever they want. Brand name marketing applies. And students conclude education is not worth the cost.
Ditto medical. Other developed nations have better outcomes for far less money.
2 Likes
I was thinking more about elementary and secondary school, not college. If you want good teachers, you’ll have to raise enough state and local taxes to pay them.
I’ve often said that there’s no way I recommend a young person attend my alma mater at current pricing (WPI – current cost North of $80,000/yr), unless they were getting enough in scholarships and grants to make it cost competitive with State U. No way I’d take out a student loan to make up the difference.
intercst
5 Likes
Worcester Polytechnic Institute (WPI) provides need-based financial aid packages that can cover a significant portion of tuition, and the exact amount of aid offered depends on the family’s household income and other factors. While there isn’t a specific income cut-off where WPI guarantees full tuition coverage, families with incomes below $75,000 generally receive substantial aid, and those with incomes under $30,000 may receive even more, according to PrepScholar and the College Board.
3 Likes
The sharply increased taxes proposed for college endowments will put a crimp on those colleges providing any aid. The article i saw was not clear, whether the tax is on the income generated by the endowment’s assets, or a tax on the assets themselves. Either way, a tax of 7%, 14% or 21% will put a crimp on cash flow. Harvard’s endowment is thought to be worth about $2.1M/student, which would put Harvard in the highest tax bracket.
Steve
The Gov’t database for colleges says that the average family with a $100,000/yr income will pay about $20,000/yr more to attend WPI versus in-state tuition at UConn or UMass (both schools with starting salaries for engineering grads very close to WPI.)
There just isn’t a financial case to spend $80,000 more over 4 years unless you’re getting a significantly higher salary to pay off the loan.
Way back in the mid-1970’s, my working-class, Irish immigrant parents paid full tuition and room & board (about $5,000/yr) to send me to WPI with about half the cost made up with student loans and me working in the cafeteria 15/hrs week. I graduated in 3 years with a starting salary of over $15k/yr, so getting out a year early almost made the education “cost-free” (though it did take me 4 years to pay off the student loans.)
Nobody is graduating from WPI today with a $250,000/yr starting salary, which would be the equivalent if salaries kept up with the cost of college.
intercst
1 Like
Dear Intercst,
Perhaps but people do pay.
You are correct about the times and pay. Engineer retired last night over dinner told me his 1963 first job pay was $6k. Dad doing his first year of residency as a doctor was making $4k. Things have really flipped over the years. By 1970 Dad’s pay was $100k. He was way beyond the engineers of the day that were non executives.
That’s where the “time value of money” comes into play. An engineer can make good money right out of the box at age 21 or 22, while your father was likely 30 years old by the time of his medical residency at $4k/year. It’s hard to make up that difference even with a $100 K/yr salary, after tax. (Remember, you can save & invest money in skim and tax free vehicles like BRK if you have early knowledge of investing.)
Here’s an interesting analysis on Physician Retirement Planning. At age 60, 85% of doctors have a net worth below $5 MM. They have high salaries, but also high income taxes and lifestyle-creep that make investing difficult.
What’s astonished me is that 30 years of leisure hasn’t hurt me financially versus my peers. That’s the difference between high tax wage and salary income versus living off an investment portfolio virtually tax-free (and a buy & hold investment in the S&P 500 has grown about 20-fold over that 30-year period.)
intercst
1 Like
He went to medical school at age 16. Graduated from Trinity Dublin at age 21. Did two internships, and began his residency at age 24. He also did two years after the residency in the US Navy. He began his work life after the residency and the Navy at age 29 in 1968.
1963 age age 24 he made $4k. Side tracked for another four years he made more money each year regardless. The inflation between 1963 and 1970 was high. Engineers did not keep up.
Doctors get paid during their residencies. He made $6k in his second year, a 50% increase in pay.
Was he Doogie Howser?
intercst
1 Like
The fictional Doogie graduated high school. Dad did not graduate high school. He dropped out at age 15. Dad spent some time between high school and college in the family tailor shop. The family thought he was not good at tailoring. Odd because Dad wanted to be a surgeon.
In much of the first world, a medical degree is an undergraduate program, not 4 years followed by a very lengthy graduate program. Also, in some countries, an undergraduate degree is typically a 3-year program rather than a 4-year program as in the USA. The AMA in the USA is the strongest “union” in the world LOL.
Inflation between 1963 and 1970 was roughly the same as inflation from 2019 to 2024. The really big inflation came in the 70s and early 80s.
2 Likes
Dear Mark,
1965 to 1981
Generally in Western Europe medical programs are 5 years. Longer than in the US. You can do that as an undergrad or post grad.
My cousin’s oldest daughter did it post grad. Another cousin’s daughter is now doing it post grad. Both studied in Dublin. The cost to each family was 75k Eur total for five years. One would live in Wicklow at home. The other would live in a second house her parents have in Dublin. Undergrad would have been 15k Eur for the five years.
In Ireland fewer students live on campus. People live at home.
I would venture more medical students do it undergrad in Europe.
I graduated from Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology in 1989 with a BS in Computer Science. GPA of 3.1. My four-year cost was approximately $40,000 tuition, room and board. My starting salary was $30k. Today starting salaries are not quite 3X that amount, but the 4-year cost is 6-8X. As great a school as it was, and still is, it’s literally half the value it used to be.
Back when I worked for Arm my British and French colleagues did not understand why Americans, as a country, do not understand the value-add that an educated public has. It’s obvious we don’t value it because we don’t fund it. And now we have a political party that is openly hostile to higher learning, in a world that requires a more educated work force. It’s maddening.
8 Likes
We used to.
Steve
1 Like