Water and interstate economics

[WendyBG]

I grew up on the East Coast where water was seldom an issue. Rain came about once a week, year round. Rarely, a water shortage in summer caused authorities to ask people to avoid wasting water.

When I moved west, the situation was radically different. “Water rights” was a concept that was new to me. A friend inherited water rights from her grandfather and sold them for a substantial amount of money.

The drought in the west has made the situation even more fraught. The Colorado River has been exploited to the point that it doesn’t even reach the ocean anymore. And the situation is getting worse, driven by interstate economic conflict.

Here is an Opinion essay which isn’t objective though it describes the issues. The author lives in California so he has a bias against the “Upper Basin” states of Colorado, New Mexico, Utah and Wyoming in favor of the downstream states, such as California.

https://www.nytimes.com/2026/02/02/opinion/water-shortage-colorado-river.html

These Four States Are in Denial Over a Looming Water Crisis

By Sammy Roth, The New York Times, Feb. 2, 2026

Lake Mead is two-thirds empty. Lake Powell is even emptier.

Not for the first time, the seven Western states that rely on the Colorado River are fighting over how to keep these reservoirs from crashing — an event that could spur water shortages from Denver to Las Vegas to Los Angeles…

Upper Basin leaders have long harbored ambitions of using more water to fuel economic development, especially in cities. “There’s this notion of keeping the dream of growth alive,” said John Fleck, a researcher at the University of New Mexico. “It’s difficult for people to reckon with the reality that they can’t keep that dream alive anymore.”…

On the one hand, the numbers don’t lie: The Lower Basin states used nearly 6.1 million acre-feet in 2024, compared with the Upper Basin’s nearly 4.5 million, according to the federal government. The [California] Imperial Irrigation District — which supplies farmers who grow alfalfa, broccoli, onions and other crops — used more water than the entire state of Colorado…

Federal officials have set a Feb. 14 deadline for the seven states to reach consensus, although negotiators blew past a November deadline with no consequence. The real cutoff is the end of 2026, when longstanding rules for assigning cuts to avoid shortages will expire…[end quote]

The water rights of the southwest are a Macroeconomic issue because of the huge economic impact. I wonder what will happen if (when) AI data centers, which are notorious water hogs, are planned for this area.

What can the federal government do if the states fail to agree by the end of 2026? Possession being 90% of the law…what will happen if the Upper Basin states simply refuse to release the water?

Wendy

[Volucris]

@WendyBG

The author lives in California so he has a bias against the “Upper Basin” states of Colorado, New Mexico, Utah and Wyoming in favor of the downstream states, such as California.

As a member of the upper basin states, Screw that guy!

“The Water Knife” is an interesting post apocalyptic book.

[Goofyhoofy]

@WendyBG

The author lives in California so he has a bias against the “Upper Basin” states of Colorado, New Mexico, Utah and Wyoming in favor of the downstream states, such as California.

I have a bias against Texas and Oklahoma. Why should they have all the oil? Also against Maine, because they get all the lobsters.

Did you know Arizona has 70% of the copper deposits and production in the US? How is that fair? And Nevada is the only state currently producing lithium, when they’re already the biggest state for gold and silver! Hey, how about spreading that around?

[captainccs]

@Goofyhoofy

Also against Maine, because they get all the lobsters.

Caribbean crayfish is much better.

Google AI

Caribbean crayfish (specifically from Anguilla) are widely considered a superior, more tender, and sweeter delicacy compared to larger spiny lobsters, often described as a hybrid between lobster and crab. These small, saltwater, clawless, spotted spiny lobsters (Panulirus guttatus or Guinea chick lobster) are frequently served grilled with garlic butter.

Key Details About Caribbean Crayfish:

• Taste & Texture: Known for being significantly more tender and sweeter than regular Caribbean spiny lobster.
• Distinction: They are not the same as North American freshwater crawfish; they are small, saltwater, clawless creatures found in the Caribbean, particularly popular in Anguilla.
• Culinary Usage: Often served grilled in garlic butter at local restaurants and high-end spots alike.
• Comparison: While Maine lobster is known for its sweet claw meat, Caribbean crayfish offers a more intense flavor in a smaller, more delicate package.
• Popular Spots: Frequently raved about at venues like Scilly Cay and Jacala in Anguilla.

Note: In some regions of the Caribbean, these may also be referred to as “Guinea chicks”.

The Captain

[waterfell]

Nuclear power has been used to desalinate seawater for years. Several power plants around the world have installed desalination units, and there are plans for more use of the technology in the future.

Commercial operation at Hongyanhe 2

Hongyanhe 1, also a 1080 MWe CPR-1000, has been operating on a commercial basis since June 2013.

The site incorporates a seawater desalination plant producing 10,080 cubic metres of potable water per day.

(10,080 cubic meters per day is about 2.7 million gallons per day.)

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Here in the US, the Diablo Canyon nuclear plant in California has been operating a desalination plant for some time.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesconca/2015/06/09/californias-megadrought-nuclear-power-to-the-rescue/

From Forbes…

Although a relatively small plant, Diablo Canyon’s seawater desalination plant is presently the largest operating desal facility on the West Coast, producing about 675,000 gallons of freshwater a day.

But the desal facility is not running at maximum capacity. It can actually produce a million and a half gallons of fresh water a day, and can ramp up right now, with very little upgrade and additional costs.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Below is a more detailed and complete review of seawater desalination and nuclear power.

Desalination - World Nuclear Association

Among several projects worldwide…

Egypt’s Nuclear Power Plant Authority plans a two-unit AES-2006 nuclear power plant with desalination facility at El-Dabaa, on the Mediterranean coast, 290 km west of Cairo. Atomstroyexport quotes the El Dabaa reactors as 3200 MWt, 1190 MWe gross for power generation only, using warm seawater for cooling. However, with desalination (MED + RO) taking 432 MWt from the secondary circuit, they would be 1050 MWe gross, 927 MWe net and each produce 170,000 m³/d at a cost of less than $1/m³.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

_ Pete

[Volucris]

Just an FYI -
As of January 30, 2026, Lake Powell’s water level is approximately 3,535.20 feet, which is about 164.80 feet below its full capacity of 3,700 feet. The lake is currently at about 25.29% of its full storage capacity.

Colorado’s current snowfall is barely above 50% of normal. ‘Normal’ is an average of the last 30 years. That average keeps getting lower all the time too. Sorry for the long URL.

https://nwcc-apps.sc.egov.usda.gov/imap/#version=2&elements=&networks=!&states=!&basins=!&hucs=&minElevation=&maxElevation=&elementSelectType=any&activeOnly=true&activeForecastPointsOnly=false&hucLabels=false&hucIdLabels=false&hucParameterLabels=true&stationLabels=&overlays=&hucOverlays=2&basinOpacity=75&basinNoDataOpacity=25&basemapOpacity=100&maskOpacity=0&mode=data&openSections=dataElement,parameter,date,basin,options,elements,location,networks&controlsOpen=true&popup=&popupMulti=&popupBasin=&base=esriNgwm&displayType=basin&basinType=6&dataElement=WTEQ&depth=-2&parameter=PCTMED&frequency=DAILY&duration=I&customDuration=&dayPart=E&monthPart=E&forecastPubDay=1&forecastExceedance=50&useMixedPast=true&seqColor=1&divColor=7&scaleType=D&scaleMin=&scaleMax=&referencePeriodType=POR&referenceBegin=1991&referenceEnd=2020&minimumYears=20&hucAssociations=true&relativeDate=-1&lat=40.00&lon=-99.00&zoom=4.0

[flyerboys]

Organizing against the creation of Lake Powell was one of my first deeply engaged political commitments (1958, and I was seven years old).

When proposed it was KNOWN to be a dubious madness (no reasonable projections of enough up basin rainfall long term to make sense, and the projections being used were risibly over-optimistic), but I personally detested it because I knew and loved the canyon as one of the most magnificent places in the entirety of God’s creation.

See (go to a library as the on-line stuff i could find was pathetic) and look at the book The Place No One Knew by Eliot Porter, which is the only major visual record of what once was.

[Volucris]

David Brower sold you out to preserve the confluence of the Green and Yampa rivers.

40°31’38.5"N 108°59’07.1"W

I’ve been swimming in the rivers there. It’s amazing the difference between the Yampa (undamned) and the Green (damned by Flaming Gorge). Would rather it was dammed and not Glen Canyon.

Did you go to Glen Canyon way back then? If so, good for you. In 1958 I was 5 years away from getting here.

[DrBob2]

@Goofyhoofy

Did you know Arizona has 70% of the copper deposits and production in the US? How is that fair?

It’s fair because they can then sell it. What’s the money situation with Colorado River water?

DB2

[Goofyhoofy]

@DrBob2

It’s fair because they can then sell it. What’s the money situation with Colorado River water?

They could sell it, but are restricted in the amount they can use because of a treaty signed a gazillion years ago before the modern era changed how people use water.

The agreement they now operate under was signed in 1922. Since that time California’s agriculture has changed markedly; where it was mostly grains in the early days, it’s now fruits and nuts, both requiring significantly more water to grow. Except, oops, there’s an allocation and they can’t get enough. (And if they could, it still wouldn’t be enough, because fruits and nuts are more profitable, so they would head in that direction even moreso.)

[flyerboys]

@Volucris

Did you go to Glen Canyon way back then?

YES!

We hiked parts of rim and rafted parts of canyon when I was 4, when Dad took us there “along the way” (LOL) when we moved from Ft Bliss to Los Angeles. He had an obsession with the Colorado River, as his grandfather had worked as a senior surveyor and his father as an apprentice engineer on the earlier, ultimately disastrous, “Alamo Canal” to irrigate the Imperial Valley.

Dad adored wilderness of all sorts, and me and sibs were raised considering wilderness our “true” home.

[eldemonio]

@Volucris

Colorado’s current snowfall is barely above 50% of normal. ‘Normal’ is an average of the last 30 years. That average keeps getting lower all the time too.

Yeah, we’ve had an extremely dry and warm winter here in CO. Denver saw more days above 60 F, than below 60 F during December.

Snowpack, or lack thereof, is concerning throughout the west -

The West Faces Snow Drought - NASA Science

The drought is currently having an impact on the CO ski industry and will certainly impact our wildfire season. All the fruits and nuts in CA will also feel the pain…

Here’s a fun blast from the past!

Takin' From the River

Disclosure - I have an Upper Basin bias. What a conundrum. If tribes actually get the water they’re entitled to, they might be the only party better off than before. Great history on how the prioritization to develop the southwestern US has led to the current flustercluck.

Like many topics here, this one keeps getting recycled / updated.

[pauleckler]

In the Midwest water is abundant. Flooding is often the concern. But when it comes to data centers water is often cited against the proposal. I think it’s a bogus argument. Water is not consumed when used for cooling. Usually it evaporates and get converted to water vapor that comes back as rain.

[Hawkwin]

@pauleckler

Water is not consumed when used for cooling. Usually it evaporates and get converted to water vapor that comes back as rain.

Not all of it is evaporated. Some of it goes into the sewer systems as very dirty waste water. Additionally, the flooding you reference is typically seasonal so any excess water is not available during all times of the year. For example, you would have a real tough time trying to pull water from any midwestern tributary right now.

Every data center in my state is connected to municipal water for year-round cooling. They usually used closed-loop systems in the winter to reduce evaporation.

[eldemonio]

@pauleckler

I think it’s a bogus argument. Water is not consumed when used for cooling. Usually it evaporates and get converted to water vapor that comes back as rain.

I think your argument that it’s a bogus argument is a super bogus argument. Respectfully, your post demonstrates a poor understanding of the water cycle and completely ignores the observed effects of climate change.

“Higher evaporation and precipitation rates are not evenly distributed around the world. Some areas may experience heavier than normal precipitation, and other areas may become prone to droughts, as the traditional locations of rain belts and deserts shift in response to a changing climate. Some climate models predict that coastal regions will become wetter and the middle of continents will become drier. Also, some models forecast more evaporation and rainfall over oceans, but not necessarily over land.”

The Water Cycle and Climate Change | Center for Science Education

To be fair, more research and modeling is needed. Too bad we’re defunding it. Ignorance is bliss…until your home is swept away in a massive flood or burned to ashes in a blazing wildfire inferno.

[flyerboys]

It was known at the time the Glen Canyon dams on the Colorado were proposed that the watershed was coming off a cycle of unusually wet years, and that planning based on those levels of flow was almost certainly misleading.

But almost nobody minded that, because the money that was to be had by owners of water rights and construction firms and future suburban lands was BIG TIME stuff, and even the losers would likely be dead before everything dried up….

[GDavenport]

As you know, we both have extensive history in the “midwest” along with many others here.

Specific conditions, specific approaches.

“Kansas gets an average of 28” of precipitation"

Kansas:

“Missouri gets 40.5” of precipitation"

Missouri:

[1poorguy]

The Colorado River Compact is a mess. It actually allocated more water than was in the river. When originally drawn-up, the states weren’t using anywhere near their allotments of river water, so it wasn’t really a problem. Today, it is. California used to buy from the other states a portion of their allotments, but now they need it for themselves.

And, as noted in this thread, snowpack that feeds the Colorado River has been light most years for the past decade (or more). This has the double-whammy of less water available, and a danger that the dam generators (Hoover and Glen Canyon) may have to be shut off at some point because of low water levels.

Meanwhile, Phoenix metro is growing. Gilbert (where I live) is raising water rates, while at the same time allowing more development. More development = more people = more water demand. Cities always talk about “growth”, but given the situation, I think they should put a halt to it until conditions change (in a positive way in terms of water). But they almost certainly won’t.

Phoenix is referred to as “Silicon Desert”. Lots of tech companies including several large Intel fabs, and they want access to deep well water. This may end up being a huge issue for them.

Maybe someone should start a stillsuit company.

[1poorguy]

@GDavenport

“Kansas gets an average of 28” of precipitation"

I note that they put Arizona in the same category as KS. For AZ, we have a wide variation. About half of AZ is part of the Great Sonoran Desert. We get about 6-8” of rain per year. Not 28”. Up north, and some of the mountains to the east, get more. Enough to support skiing in winter. A quick check says Flagstaff averages 23” per year. So taking an average across an entire state like AZ isn’t really meaningful. If Phoenix got 23” we’d have a lot of flooding all the time.

[GDavenport]

You have the same point I have. It’s difficult to reference any macro indicator with such high variation from locale to locale.

KS is not in the same category as AZ, BTW. The colors for KS are “Tan” with AZ being “Orange”.