What an amazing start to the year!

What an amazing start to the year!

Four trading days into the year and the indexes are clustered around break-even (roughly between plus one percent and minus one percent), and the five of them average out to down four hundredths of a percent, while my entire portfolio has risen almost nine percent in the four days, more than I was able to add on in the whole last three months of 2019!

And No! it’s not just due to worries about cyber attacks. Zscaler is up just 4%, while Coupa (which has absolutely nothing to do with cyber-security) is up 8%. A big star was Alteryx, which also is not a cyber-security stock, and was up 12% to Crowdstrike’s up 10%. It was just a great four days all around.

I explained what I think is going on here:
https://discussion.fool.com/in-my-end-of-the-year-report-i-made-…

Best,

Saul

40 Likes

Four trading days into the year and the indexes are clustered around break-even (roughly between plus one percent and minus one percent), and the five of them average out to down four hundredths of a percent, while my entire portfolio has risen almost nine percent in the four days, more than I was able to add on in the whole last three months of 2019!

I’ve been tracking this too. I’ve also tracking where I am relative to the portfolio peak which was +100.0% YTD during 2019 hit on July 26, 2019. The portfolio ended +41.8 for 2019 so it needs +41% in 2020 to reattain the previous peak (1.418 * 1.41 = 2.00). After today’s close the portfolio is +9.45% YTD for 2020 so now it needs to rise another 28.8% (1.0945 * 1.288 = 1.41) to reattain the 2019 peak. I think many who follow this board have similar holdings so they may well be at a similar point on the path to reattaining the July 2019 high.

There was a sector rotation in August - October 2019, but I think it was also a revaluation of the high flying software-as-a-service stocks (among others) that maybe had risen too far, too fast. Here’s what I wrote on September 15 when I argued that the sell off was different recent sell offs that we had experienced in our stocks:

https://discussion.fool.com/you-wrote-that-by-july-of-2015-you-w…

Here’s part of that post:

So here we are in the middle of our violet storm. So what should we do? Everyone will make their own choices. Personally, I closed out most of my options positions so that I will not be in a situation where I am forced to sell (if the stocks continue their decent). I did the opposite in 2015, adding to my options positions when the stocks begin to drop. At the time, I continued to believe that the analysis was solid, that the companies were great, and that the growth would continue. Well, it turned out that I was wrong and that the companies were not on sale after all. There were margin calls and that episode could have wiped me out financially. But it didn’t and I learned some valuable lessons.

Another question is when will our companies recover now that have now dropped between 20% and almost 50% (ESTC being an exception: only down 10%) from their July all-time highs. I don’t know. I tend to think that it could be a while (and they may not have bottomed yet). This is just my opinion, but I would be surprised if these stocks go back to their all-time highs before the end of 2019. It will really depend on 2 things: how the businesses perform (and we’re only getting 1 more cycle of earnings results before the end of 2019) in the coming quarters and when will the companies come back into favor. If the businesses perform then they should also come back into favor but at what multiples. No one can know, but my personal guess is that the highs on most of the companies might be matched in 18 months with a range of 6-24 months. If it’s 6 months then the multiples will need to go back up. If it’s 24 months then the growth of most of the businesses should be able to support the previously high stock prices with a lower multiple; and this is what’s keeping me in the stocks. Again, this is just my personal opinion and I could be wrong.

It’s now been almost 6 months since the peak and 4 months since I wrote the above. My portfolio hit the low on October 22, just about 2 months after the peak. Since then, the portfolio has recovered about 24% (about 13.5% between October 22 through the end of 2019 and 9.45% in the first few days of 2020). We’ve also had 2 quarters of earnings for all (I think all) of the companies. If the companies are averaging 60% growth and assuming that they are basically valued on a multiple of revenue and the growth of that revenue, then 60% annual revenue growth is 26.5% (1.265 * 1.265 = 1.60) growth every six months. This is a very rough calculation but I’d say that one would expect to see mid-20%s stock price appreciation after 6 months assuming no multiple expansion or contraction. This means that the stock price appreciation that we’ve seen (at least in my 9 stocks) since October 22 has been essentially all fundamentals driven (i.e. not multiple expansion) assuming of course that the October 22 prices are the “correct” price. These calculations make me feel particularly optimistic. First, we are heading into another earnings reporting cycle with all of the companies reporting in February and March. Assuming that the 60% average revenue growth continues, I’d expect another 12.5% of expected stock price appreciation (from today’s levels) and that’s without any multiple expansion. If we see multiple expansion then we would expect to see more than 12.5% in the next 2 months. And, of course, if there is multiple compression, then we’d see less than a 12.5% gain.

Chris

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Hi Chris, I was making the same calculations and figured that if I tacked these four days onto last year, I would be at up 39.6% instead of up 28.4% for last year. (1.284 x 1.087 = 1.396). So I’m well on my way now to returning to last year’s up 77% high for my portfolio.
Best,
Saul

6 Likes

Ok I have to say it. Isn’t this thread a bit OT? Daily moves in cloud stocks?

If we are going to talk daily moves, then will it be off topic to talk about them tomorrow morning if the AH big drops in just about every stock holds and we get crushed tomorrow?

A little but tongue cheek, but a bit surprised as well.

Hey someone had to say it.

TMB

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It’s fine to tell it like it is and try to keep the board honest but we should all err on the side of showing the respect that Saul has earned. If Saul has insight into these big multi-day moves and the board is called “Saul’s” Investment Discussions, and he dedicates countless hours and profitable ideas he gets more leeway to decide what is and is not OT without having to suffer trivial public call outs.

BD

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Thanks TMB for pointing out that it was Off-Topic, and thanks to BD, for coming to my defense.

It was indeed OT, but I guess I saw it as a continuation of my End-of-the-Year summary, a mini-celebration, and a response to some of the trolls who emerged when our stocks were getting hit, saying “Most of your SaaS stocks will NEVER see their 2019 highs again!” (Yes, someone actually did say something that ridiculous!), and more recently they were saying in effect “See, you’ll always Return to the Mean, investing in the S&P 500 is best!” etc.

Well, of course companies growing at 40% to 90%, with almost all recurring revenue, will do better in the long run than the indexes. It’s just a question of not getting scared out when the stocks take a rest. And in 2019, in a huge melt-down for our stocks, none of us who who had been doing this for the entire year had ever even touched negative territory year-to-date, in spite of the temporary crash (and even I, who was behind many other board members, finished above the average of the Indexes).

Best,

Saul

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Hi Saul
I actually enjoyed the information and wish that more of it was permitted here.

As for Broadway Dans defense, I’m not sure why some people need to jump in ahead and defend you as you are quite an experienced human capable of expressing your own thoughts and I thank you for your response.

Broadway Dans reasoning I cannot agree with. You are, like it or not the CEO of this board and if this were a company I was invested in I certainly would not feel comfortable if the CEO was not complying to the rules he personally wrote for his company. Your names on the door, so I’m sure you would agree that you take the responsibility of the highest standard and example.

So again, I like the kind of info you were sharing. I just think sometimes we need to extend the same courteously to others when they post something that might be borderline OT, especially when it’s something people seem to want to also discuss.

I know I don’t really post here when I have something to share for fear of being shot down, so I post it on safer boards. My one strong example is again when I attempted to discuss early last year the flood of IPOs flooding the market and the effect it was having pushing the cloud names to nose bleed levels and the greed of Wall Street to cash in. I thought it was an important discussion, but it was deemed off topic. We now know that it did signal a top and then a massive selloff.

I’ll stop here. Love your board. I have a lot of respect for you and the board. This was my one attempt to say something as we enter 2020. I think there are many very smart people out there that would like to post a thought now and then that is as informative as your above post, but aren’t comfortable doing so because of the rules of the board. Personally I think it’s too bad.

All the best as always Saul.

TMB

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I’ve been a lurker here for a couple of years, and I’ve always had the thought that maybe we should establish a Saul’s OT board, so that the members who I respect and admire can engage in analysis and discussion that isn’t permitted on this board. I believe it would be of value to most members, while avoiding posts that would clutter up this board.

Any thoughts on the idea?

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I’ve been a lurker here for a couple of years, and I’ve always had the thought that maybe we should establish a Saul’s OT board, so that the members who I respect and admire can engage in analysis and discussion that isn’t permitted on this board. I believe it would be of value to most members, while avoiding posts that would clutter up this board.

We’ve had the suggestion before and took a poll, and the vast majority said they probably wouldn’t use it.

Saul

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It’s bad enough cluttering the board, worse cluttering your private life, unless of extreme significance and justified importance that could be used to further the interest of what we discuss here. Just stick to the rules and all will be well.

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Many posts that are OT for Saul’s are fine for NPI.

Just leave the rancorous stuff somewhere else. Incivility and rancorous posts will be FA’d.

Currently, NPI has threads about Chinese stocks and options.

If anyone is interested…

:slight_smile:
ralph

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There are also the boards where angels fear to thread, and the Mongoose chronicles that discuss Saas stocks, and are less focused in terms of what is allowed.

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Honestly, I like Saul randomly sharing his thoughts even the message are OT. I think that helps me can do the same way of thinking just like Saul( a man who fully invested and beaten market more than 20 years). And yes, probably not fair for someone who probably provides 1% possibilities great idea to the board.

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what is (are) NPI and FA

NPI is the discussion board New Paradigm Investing.
https://discussion.fool.com/new-paradigm-investing-114933.aspx?m…

FA is Fool Alert. Look at the “Recommend it!” field where you “rec” a post. Just to the left is the “Report Post” field.

For most discussion boards, there is a TMF monitor. Since she or he cannot possibly read every post, this “Report Post” field allows board members to Alert the Fool staff to a post that needs review.

No individual board member can personally remove a post. She/he can only FA the post and let the TMF staff make a judgement.

HTH
:slightly_smiling_face:
ralph

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