https://techcrunch.com/2020/05/12/twitter-says-staff-can-con…
Twitter just announced to their employees that after this is over they can choose to continue to work from home indefinitely (if their job description fits it).
Saul
14 Likes
Makes sense for many businesses. Why own/rent office space when people can work from home (and deduct their home office on their taxes)? Doesn’t make sense. It’s a “win” for a company that can utilize “work at home”, and it’s a “win” for the employees because they can deduct their home offices.
This could be a potential hit for office space owners, and a potential boon for companies that enable working from home (including teleconferencing, etc). Maybe some companies will be saddled with white elephants (i.e. office buildings) that they don’t need and can’t sell?
Which is one thing that intrigues me about the stocks followed on this board. A lot of them appear to be geared towards the working environment I just described.
I’ve long thought business trips were wasteful when you can initiate a video conference call for a fraction of the cost of airline tickets and hotels.
1poorguy
2 Likes
re wasteful business trips . I agree, but apparently many employees regard them as a reward, a chance to travel and eat out at company expense. Plus meeting in person is better. Clearly video conferencing is a lot cheaper so we will probably see more of it and less travel, but what percentage of each?
Hopefully we are invested in some of the winners but there are lots of losers and it will be a long time before they come back to pre Covid levels.
2 Likes
Twitter announced this a few days ago. The speculation from real estate investors is that more companies will follow suit. Which means, if the companies are in California, more folks will be leaving CA as a person can work remotely from almost anywhere.
Fool on,
mazske
All positions are listed in my profile
2 Likes
re wasteful business trips
I’m unsure why this should change in a post covid recovery world. Many have claimed that businesses are now realizing that trips are wasteful. If that’s true, why didn’t they realize it previously? My suspicion is that there is a lot of ‘intangible’ benefit from meeting in person.
For my own part, I wouldn’t think my trips would change much. My travel is mostly for conferences. I had planned to attend a conference in late summer until covid hit. The organizers were then asking whether participants would like to participate in a virtual conference instead. My answer was no. Aside from the fun of travelling, the point of a conference is to actually meet face-to-face with people that you haven’t talked to in a while or have never met. You keep old connections going strong and make new connections. You get drunk with people and realize that they’re ‘cool’, so you trust them and are willing to collaborate. I can’t really imagine that experience over video, and I concluded that a virtual conference would be a waste of money (turning the travel savings idea on its head!).
That said, the conference planners decided to go ahead with the virtual meeting. I will not attend, but apparently they had enough interest to move forward. Still, I can’t help but think people will soon realize that it just isn’t the same, and that if ‘real’ travel becomes available again, they will prefer it.
-lemur
5 Likes
I would like to think that there is a hybrid model out there for both the Office/Work-From-Home relationship and the business travel initiative.
Office/WFH: I think we may see a reduction in leasable square footage over time, as current leases expire, but there most likely will be work on-prem accommodations made in the rental space programming for these WFH individuals (break-out rooms, hot-desks, etc.) that will allow them office time as needed for on-boarding, face-to-face meetings and corporate culture indoctrination.
As it relates to corporate travel, I am not sure phone, email and video conferencing can replace the warm introduction and that initial interpersonal connection that may be required to build trust in a business relationship. I think all of those tools are great for maintaining the relationship and saving on travel expenses; not just for creating the relationship.
Just my personal opinion,
H
2 Likes
Many have claimed that businesses are now realizing that trips are
wasteful. If that’s true, why didn’t they realize it previously?
Inertia, mostly. “This is how we’ve always done it and it’s too much effort to change it” whether it really is too much effort or not. Plus, an unhealthy does of “I can’t manage you if I can’t see you.”.
2 Likes
I don’t think anyone is saying business related travel will stop completely but it may decrease by some amount to be seen, whether it’s 10% or 50%. Not that meeting in person won’t be viewed as better but meeting remotely may be viewed as good enough. I too travel mostly for conferences, often to see other people and go out with them. But as I progress in my career my need for doing that (and freedom to do so given a family) may vary. Many medical conferences now offer discounted online meeting access which is good enough. I get my necessary CME but I can do it at home or even on my own time.
You see it on the news as well. A Zoom or other personal Teleconferencing setup is now viewed as “good enough” whereas in the past it was usually a remote studio. Now you see people in there own homes with minimal setup. Sure you get a hiccup here or there but generally speaking it’s fine.
Some business meetings will still need to be in person, but like working from home I suspect in many cases people will realize being there in person is simply not worth the time. Some of the device reps that service our hospitals cover a 100 mile radius or even southern California and Hawaii. The ones covering Hawaii usually say that after a few months of 2-3 trips a month it gets old and tiring. Personally, having a rep video in and provide information has been fine, and they’re more readily available.
Working remotely also greatly reduces travel time. Saving people 1-2 hours a day could have a great effect on happiness and health by providing more free time and sleep.
9 Likes
re wasteful business trips . I agree, but apparently many employees regard them as a reward, a chance to travel and eat out at company expense. Plus meeting in person is better. Clearly video conferencing is a lot cheaper so we will probably see more of it and less travel, but what percentage of each?
Hopefully we are invested in some of the winners but there are lots of losers and it will be a long time before they come back to pre Covid levels.
I was a member of the group that did maintenance for the Ada programming language. The issues to be resolved were mostly cases where different compilers implemented some edge case differently. I’d say that 80% of the work done was via e-mail. But if we didn’t have a couple of meetings a year, the serious issues would never have gotten resolved. One was AI-315 dealing with RM 11.6.* Everyone knew what was intended but the original Ada RM text allowed more than that. The current version 40 years after the original Ada Reference Manual, is about the best possible. Will it need to be revised in the future? Possibly. Could we have had those debates via video conferencing? Possibly. But there were many issues that required years to resolve. Without the time pressure from meetings (both when they were approaching, and when they were ending), there would have been more issues that took decades to resolve.
So I think that will be the future model, most meetings a few hours by electronic means, a few conferences or working sessions that last most of a week.
- For those of you who are programmers, here is the problem in a nutshell. You want to raise say Tasking_Error. Write “raise Tasking_Error;” and you are done, right? Well, you are done, but the compiler authors may have to figure out the intent of the code sequence containing the raise statement. If the code does nothing except raise Tasking_Error, 11.6 allows that code to be eliminated. Well, that raise statement does nothing except… So the problem is how to tell the compiler authors, and for them to tell their optimizers, when they are going too far.
2 Likes
…I am not sure phone, email and video conferencing can replace the warm introduction and that initial interpersonal connection that may be required to build trust in a business relationship.
I’m not sure that is possible now. At least until there is a vaccine. I know people who say they will never shake hands again, for example. Would you want your entire executive staff exposed to a possible carrier just to get the “warm introduction”? I would think not for at least a couple of years.
I think I will adopt a far eastern greeting instead of shaking hands in the future. It will be clear that I’m greeting (everyone recognizes a “wai”), and it doesn’t involve touching.
It’s cost/benefit, IMO. Plus, I agree with the other poster that I think “business trips” are just an excuse to travel on the company’s dime. You’ll notice they always travel in business or first class when the company is paying for it. And I say that as someone who has done it (though I was sent; I’m not high enough on the food chain to request it on my own).
1poorguy
2 Likes
My employer, ARM, is not putting any target date for return to work. It will happen when it is safe, it will happen in stages, and it will happen differently in different parts of the world. For at least 2020 people can choose to simply work from home the entire rest of the year (even if their office partially re-opens). A friend at a different tech company in town, however, his company is itching to get people back to the office as soon as Texas/Austin will let them. That friend, however, is not keen to rush this.
There is absolutely something missing with all this work from home. You cannot network effectively. You don’t run into people and have pop-up conversations. You can get yourself a bit of tunnel vision if you aren’t careful. It was said that Steve Jobs designed one of the Apple buildings specifically to create “collisions” with people (in positive, constructive ways) for this very reason.
If this trend of WFH continues after this is all over and stays a large part of the work culture, it will be to our detriment.
19 Likes
If this trend of WFH continues after this is all over and stays a large part of the work culture, it will be to our detriment.
Agree to disagree. I think it makes enormous sense for those who can work at home to do so. It’s a “win” all the way around, and makes companies keep less office space (thus reducing expenses). My company built a large building a few years ago. Now I wonder if they could have accomplished the same increase in capacity by allowing folks to WFH instead of making that huge capital outlay.
I am in a situation where a lot of my work is in a lab. Can’t really do that from home. But I see no difference with someone “Teaming” me (is that a verb?) or emailing me or dropping by my cube. I’m either in my cube, or in the lab. If I’m in the lab you can’t see me anyway, and will have to leave a message of some sort. If I’m at my desk, you just reached me. That I can’t see if you’re wearing pants while messaging/conferencing me isn’t of any consequence.
I’m not sure what you mean by “network” in this context. Except for the inability to go to the lab I am able to do everything I need. Just last week I messaged a designer regarding a layout. We ended up doing a voice call and shared desktop, figured out what I needed, and that’s it. It wouldn’t have been noticeably more efficient in person. Maybe less so, because he returned my messaging when he was free instead of me interrupting whatever he was doing by walking into his office.
Companies that enable this sort of environment I think will prosper, and those are the sorts of companies being discussed on this forum (e.g. ZM, AYX, and others).
1poorguy
9 Likes
If this trend of WFH continues after this is all over and stays a large part of the work culture, it will be to our detriment.
A wee bit of imagination could easily provide the equivalent of Zoom water cooler interactions.
5 Likes
There are leases signed already. Most are long-term. At least until they’re closing to the finish line, WFH won’t completely take over. I understand companies are saying employees can work from home for the rest of the year but that doesn’t mean they’ll save on the rent money. My company moved to Hudson Yards last September. Everything was built for how we wanted it. They’re allowing us to work from home as needed for as long as it is needed. They’ve even said when we start going back, it will be on volunteer basis only and they won’t force anyone. At the same time, they won’t shut this new location down. They spent a lot of money on this and they won’t get it back. They have signed leases that most likely they can’t get out of. I’m hearing a lot about residential leases as well where some are easier to get out where as others, the landlords are not budging and are asking for 1-year rent because they know it will be just as hard to fill the space since everyone is working from home.
You’ll notice they always travel in business or first class when the company is paying for it.
Most of my company travel has been lowest cost. Most of my career I have heard stories about companies with first class travel, fancy hotels and party-hearty road trips. Haven’t met one yet. There is one previous employer who had an agreement with a major airline. “We guarantee xxx flights per year. In exchange, if you have unused first class seating, an employee can take it”. That’s as close as I ever got to first class for an employer except very “special” cases.
I agree that more companies and employees are getting used to remote work success. I also agree that some face to face and lunch conversations build a relationship. For cases where face to face or human to hardware activity is required, working from home will become more routine. Office sites will probably shrink. If the virus is not an issue going forward, there will be smaller buildings, more conference rooms and “hot bunk” shared cubicles, so groups can work together a couple times a week.
1 Like
A wee bit of imagination could easily provide the equivalent of Zoom water cooler interactions.
At my own employer, one of our managers organized semi-weekly lunchtime bull sessions over our Teams connection. And here at Fool, I read a story about someone in Japan organizing “drinking with strangers” Zoom sessions. We are getting accustomed to more regular video conversations.
If this trend of WFH continues after this is all over and stays a large part of the work culture, it will be to our detriment.
Joining Saul’s board is “WFH.” How does it compare to warm body investment conferences?
Work from home here to stay because the infrastructure to make it work is now in place. As Jared Diamond wrote in Guns, Germs, and Steel, opportunity, not necessity, is the mother of invention. I’m so convinced of it that now my portfolio reflects that belief.
Denny Schlesinger
Guns, Germs, and Steel: The Fates of Human Societies by Jared M. Diamond (Author)
https://www.amazon.com/Guns-Germs-Steel-Fates-Societies/dp/0…
9 Likes
There is absolutely something missing with all this work from home. You cannot network effectively. You don’t run into people and have pop-up conversations. You can get yourself a bit of tunnel vision if you aren’t careful.
My Goodness!, If that isn’t what we do on this board remotely, all day every day, I don’t know what is. We run into people all the time and have pop-up conversations. We talk to people who agree with us, who disagree, who have different points of view because they come from different backgrounds, who present ideas that we never would have thought of.
Oh, and we seem to be more successful than the people who do investing from offices.
For a second unrelated point:
And besides there are different kinds of jobs. The son of someone I know works in a Fidelity Call Center in New Hampshire. People have to drive in a half-hour or 45 minutes each way to get to work. During the winter it could take longer. Long before Covid, Fidelity started giving people special computers and allowing them to work from home two days a week if they wished. It’s win-win-win. Company gets a fully staffed call center even in a snow storm. Company can also hire incrementally more people without increasing their space. Employees can save an hour or an hour and a half on the road every day. And much more in a snowstorm. Life is a lot easier. And Customers have a fully staffed call center and don’t have long waiting times if they call in during the winter when some people didn’t make it in.
Now, during Covid they can work from home all week. For all I know the call Center is on a skeleton crew. Not every job requires “pop-up” conversations.
Best,
Saul
35 Likes
The best part is sleeping in my own bed, plus not shelling out money for flight, meals out, hotel, pet boarding, car rental, sleepless nights. I can see how others who are not paying for these things themselves-employer, govt. would much prefer to go on the junkets though.
Lucky Dog
There are leases signed already.
I suspect that for many large companies, the issue is not the existing leased or owned space, but whether they need to keep adding to that going forward. If they can grow headcount significantly without adding more space, that is a substantial saving. This might involve some reconfiguration to support shared space for people who are in the building from time to time. One of the interesting parts of WFH will be the distinction between 100% WFH where going to the office is rare enough that one can live in another state if one prefers and mostly WFH where one needs to be close enough to go into the office on some regular basis.
1 Like