ZUO Shares tumble in AH

Hi all,

Below is a brief press report on ZUO earnings after the bell this afternoon. I will return to the board later, after I get a chance to read the company press release and hear the conference call to provide my “Ticker Take” on the quarter.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/30/zuora-drops-almost-25percent…

Zuora shares plummeted more than 24% in extended trading on Thursday after the cloud software company gave a sales forecast for the full year that trailed analysts’ estimates.

Here are the key numbers for the first quarter:

Loss: $12.2 million, or 11 cents a share, excluding some items vs. 13 cents estimated, according to Refinitv

Revenue: $64.1 million vs. $64.15 million estimated, according to Refinitiv

Sales rose 22 percent in the quarter from a year earlier as more clients signed up from Zuora’s software, which helps companies manage their subscription businesses.

But the company said revenue for the full fiscal year will come in at between $268 million and $278 million, well below the $291.1 million average analyst estimate, according to Refinitiv.

Zuora, which went public last year, said it adopted new revenue recognition rules effective Feb. 1, which changes when sales get recorded depending on contract terms.

The stock had been up 9.7% for the year as of the close on Thursday.

Best, Swift…
No position ZUO

P.S. Nice call Saul. :slight_smile:

8 Likes

its just amazing how this board collectively ends up shunning - lets say “wannabes”…

Today ZS and Okta reported, mostly in line with expectations from most on this board. The stocks in AH are in -5% to +5% range.

And ZUO and NTNX reported and get decimated with >15% down…

I wouldnt dwell on NTNX, too much has been written about it. I was one of the strong believer who gave up on last quarterly call.

ZUO was fairly popular on this board for a while… if I remember right, Saul did have a position, at-least trial one…

I remember I didnt quite buy into the business, yet I bought into trial position, may be around the time Saul bought or after Saul exited… and sold it after few days… just didnt see the low margin service business really bringing higher margin subscription business fast enough… its a sign that customers are forcing the company to do a bunch of unpaid work with a carrot of future thats not coming soon!!

My notes from previous trade say it will be worth reviewing ZUO by mid 2020 if it finally is able to raise subscription revenue growth.

2 Likes

I do not often make definitive statements about specific stocks because frankly what do I know what they will do. But Zuo, my statement last year was STAY THE BEEP AWAY! Paraphrased of course. It was not difficult to see at all.

The problem is, is that people become enchanted by personality, and they say they find a gem that the market just does not understand…the problem is, is that the market understands fundamentals. What the market does not understand well is FUD, and what the market does not understand well is just how good fundamentals really are for the best of the best of the companies with fundamentals that the textbooks say are not possible to have in a free and open market.

That is because the textbooks were mostly written prior to the more and more rapid development of disruptive technologies and business models.

I mean the telephone…easy enough one to understand. But when it came to electric power who here would have chosen AC over DC, as DC has the more powerful backers! Notice how Wall Street underestimated the phone, underestimated the Ford car, etc. But way overestimated DC power.

Over the last couple of years I have gained more wisdom than over the last 20. And I always had very good intuition. Pure is not going to become the next EMC or NTAP. Sorry, ain’t gonna happen. Not difficult to see. EMC created a market that no other competitor followed and made the streaming media and the SAN markets worldwide. NTAP did the same for NAS, a place no one else was able to join them. Pure - what market is Pure going to dominate worldwide (my question mark key no longer works). Pure has great fundamentals, is an excellent company, but it will never be one of the elites. Nutanix had its chance, and now it is growing at 25% or 30% of the growth rate of the HCI market. Sales force problems my arse.

The reason why people invest in Nutanix or Pure or Zuo or Cloudera is because they are cheap and the market is “missing” the underlying fundamentals. Ummm, well, none of us is smarter than the market. The turnaround plays being hoped for only happen in minority circumstances and usually only after an unexpected development. Doing the same thing and hoping for different results, gives you the usual expected result. You do not beat the market by thinking you are “smarter” than the market, you beat it by understanding what the market either never understands as it always overreacts to FUD, or underreacts to those few extreme world changing businesses.

In the modern era Microsoft is of course the still standing pearl of that paradigm. So is EMC. Amongst that group are those who did not survive such as AOL, a victim of disruptive technology it could not adapt to, broadband. These things are not random, these things are not luck, these things can be seen and identified in real time.

For those who want to ignore such things, or think they are smarter than the market straight on, Mano o Mano, good luck. One thing the market is very good at is examining straight forward fundamentals. It is the tangential issues the market has problems with. Zuo is a loser. Sorry. Sure, at some price it will be a stock winner.

Heck, Pure3 is down to $15 now, lower than its IPO price a few years ago, Nutanix is $27, still materially above its IPO price. But given what you have seen, what indication is there that these stocks are now “cheap” except for a short term bounce play[question mark].

Yet we are told it is so easy and predictable what Saul does. Just luck, just follow the revenue growth…I think Saul deserves a lot more credit than that.

Tinker

49 Likes

I do not often make definitive statements about specific stocks because frankly what do I know what they will do. But Zuo, my statement last year was STAY THE BEEP AWAY! Paraphrased of course. It was not difficult to see at all.

Yes you did…and here is a little post that so timely compared the Tinker criteria to value (but lower revenue growth):

https://discussion.fool.com/smar-vs-zuo-tinker-criteria-34153599…

Let’s look at why:

SMAR P/S is 25 with high relative strength
ZUO P/S is 11 with lower relative strength

SMAR shares short are 33% of float
ZUO shares short are 32% of float

SMAR revenue growth rate last quarter was 59%
ZUO revenue growth rate last quarter was 33%

Tinker criteria would quite clearly say buy SMAR and avoid ZUO…all things being equal…which they are rather coincidently equal as regards shares short, bullish charts, etc.

Bert likes ZUO BTW…thinks there is still + alpha. Perhaps that changed after earwigs?

Their bizarre earnings call a few ago just turned me off from the start.

4 Likes

I remember I didnt quite buy into the business, yet I bought into trial position, may be around the time Saul bought or after Saul exited… and sold it after few days… just didnt see the low margin service business really bringing higher margin subscription business fast enough… its a sign that customers are forcing the company to do a bunch of unpaid work with a carrot of future thats not coming soon!!

Hey Nil:

Agree, I also played it briefly for a small 30-40% gain but jumped ship in August 2018:

https://discussion.fool.com/bye-bye-zuo-33995099.aspx

1) The skit at the beginning was ridiculous and likely because no one was there to ask many questions.

2) The “book” reminds me a bit of a great business whose time has not yet come…we must be educated to know we need what they are selling. They spent a bizarre amount of time on “the book” at a what was supposed to be an earnings call.

3) They kept emphasizing the “non-recurring” revenue of the present quarter…not to be repeated.

4) The CEO is still projecting pretty low revenue growth…not enough to justify its higher P/S

The business premise seemed reasonable but also seemed before its time.

I don’t know how many read the minutes of the conference call, but I was left wondering WTF. Basically, the CEO said that the sales team stunk and did not know how to close sales. The company is bringing in some new talent to get sales back on track. Again, how is it that such a problem could go un noticed. Did management not have goals the teams had to make? Sounds like a company adrift. No matter the product, if your team can’t sell it, you are sunk. Or, perhaps the product is hard to sell.

Just some random thoughts.

Gordon

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