1YPEG and risk

I don’t mean to be difficult or base my reaction to one earnings season, but these low 1YPEG companies that are supposed to carry a much lower risk profile are being pounded like high flying story stocks!!

What attracted me to this board and the investing philosophy, championed by Saul, is lower risk Rule Breaker type stocks. In my first earning season since switching a bulk of my portfolio over to these type stocks (SKX, ABMD, SWKS, SEDG - I already owned BOFI, AMBA and INFN) and I am seeing 30% declines as the new normal!! :frowning:

Help me understand what is going on? And why is the market reacting to what seems to be not very poor earnings with story stock type punishment!!!

Justin

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Much lower risk of permanent loss of capital, but we are (were?) in a multi year bull market and things change. I think there is a good chance that we are in a bear market- where prices decline on everything.

Failure to respond well to good news is a classic sign of a bear market. I hope you hang in there. I have a degree in math so when in doubt I do the math: take the rev growth rate compound it for three years, take the earnings growth rated compounded for three years, give your stock a market multiple or the same multiple it has today on the compounded earnings. You will be reassured.

example SKX last four quarters: 14,37,52,43 totaling 1.44 (I am going to use the 45% growth rate that we have had this year so far over last year) three years compounding at 45% gives you a triple!!
http://investor.gov/tools/calculators/compound-interest-calc… if you want to check.
so 1.44 x 3=4.32 in earnings assign that a 20 multiple 4.32 x 20= 86.4 I will take it!! the problem is wall street took the prior quarter and extrapolated that 55% growth and decided a mere triple in three years was beneath contempt…

Now SKX may not grow at 45% for three years, or the multiple may expand, or less likely contract… but Saul is advocating that we do the math and make choices that are high probabilities of wonderful success. Life changing success.

I did not enjoy this last month, really annoying, but the market can be like that ( cue the music for a little song: Momma said there’d be days like this…) the people who get hurt forget their method when it does not work in the short turn. I hope you stick with it.

Long skx, punched in the face, but still standing
Flygal

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Folks,

Great exits on BOFI!

WOW!

110 exit looks good/87.50 this am

Flygal,

Remember a saying from your past. The three most worthless things in the world: the sky above you, the runway behind you, and the airspeed you used to have. Add to that, the earnings and revenue growth your company had last quarter.
What is going on here is these companies have good 1YrPEG based on those very high past growth numbers. But many also have p/e’s well above market or industry averages. It seems to be a consistent thread lately, lower guidance going forward (and of course, law suits, fear of slowing growth, the competition is going to take your market share). The 1yrPEG is being trumped by analysts’ standard PEG. Your 1yrPEG is at a very high angle of attack and your growth engine just flamed out.

KC

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Good observations…

Maybe it’s time to revisit the importance of diversification…

I love low 1PEG stocks, but am thanking my lucky stars that I have stalwarts such as AMZN, AAPL, SBUX, FB, MA, GILD, MIDD, NFLX etc that are holding up well, despite some of them not meeting the low 1PEG criteria…

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Props to you for entertaining analogy…

I will give you backwards looking, but no way PEs well above market. The whole point is NOT to have high PEs, PE compression is what we are trying to avoid!!

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I don’t mean to be difficult or base my reaction to one earnings season, but these low 1YPEG companies that are supposed to carry a much lower risk profile are being pounded like high flying story stocks!!

Justin - Investing is a long game to play. I felt exactly the same way about these type of stocks being maybe a little “safer” picks within the high growth RB stocks. It sounds like you and I were just unlucky that we started this game a few months ago just in time to get killed with drops in almost every stock this board talks about.
That is just the short term view though. You don’t have to go back very far in the price history to see these stocks are only having partial corrections after incredible increases. If you were playing this game longer you’d still be ahead.
If this methodology was targeting short term gains, then we would be trading stocks. This approach has a longer target for returns.
Keep your chin up! We are all getting punched in the face here.

Diversification is the time proven best way to protect yourself. Diversified across different types of stocks, not different stocks of the same type.

Saul - I’ve been curious if this portfolio is 100% of your invested stocks. I personally have only given myself 10% of my total portfolio for this type of investing. Rest is in various mutual funds (int’l and index) and a few large caps.

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Flygal,

but no way PEs well above market

How about the punch line to an old joke: Ya, but dat Fokker were a Messerschmitt".!

The point is to not have high p/e’s, but… Now, some of these numbers are GAAP p/e which we Non-Gappers don’t use but Mr. Market is setting the price and Mr. Market is not as situationally aware as we.

ABMD 64
INFN 29
AMBA 47
ANET 33
PAYC 115
ELLI 45
SEDG 37
SNCR 34

These p/e’s are after “price reductions” on the share price. They were maybe 25% higher when some of us bought in.

So, some ‘Saul stocks’ have growth rates so high that their low 1yrPEG ratio does contain a high pe. Those Fokkers are Messerschmitts.

KC

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Saul - I’ve been curious if this portfolio is 100% of your invested stocks. I personally have only given myself 10% of my total portfolio for this type of investing. Rest is in various mutual funds (int’l and index) and a few large caps.

Not Saul here, but I believe I can answer.

Saul is 100% invested in most cases. The monthly synopsis he sends out is his complete portfolio in terms of stocks/bonds/funds/indexes/etc…

And since he doesn’t hold bonds/funds/indexes/etc…

A.J.

Forgive my ignorance but what is 1YPEG? Never hear of it in the investing world before.

Mehran

Mehran,

If you check out the Knowledgebase scroll down to the section (about halfway down) that’s titled “Here’s a new metric – The 1YPEG”.

The Knowledgebase can be found at http://discussion.fool.com/our-new-improved-knowledgebase-ed-2-j…

Hope this helps.

  • Matt

Matt,

Thanks for the link. So, it is PEG ratio but instead of looking forward it is looking backwards by 1-year? That’s how I read it. If that is true, it is a very dangerous way of looking at stocks and then making investment decisions. The market values stocks based on future guidance and future earnings growth projections and not the past. The past is past and the current price reflects that. That is why even though a company may have a stellar earnings report for the last quarter, it is enough for the management to give a hint of lower future growth or revenues for the stock to be punished big, specially if the stock is a momentum high flyer darling of Wall Street and traders. Looking at the past 1-year and getting a 1YPEG ratio to base investment decisions on will get you into high flying momentum stocks of the day that can crash and burn quickly. Think GPRO, DDD, TWTR, etc.

Mehran

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Looking at the past 1-year and getting a 1YPEG ratio to base investment decisions on will get you into high flying momentum stocks of the day that can crash and burn quickly. Think GPRO, DDD, TWTR, etc.

This is why it is a screen. It IS history and is not based on projections.

It is a bit of “show me the money!”

It is also only a screen. There are multiple high flying stocks with good YPEG’s that are not in Saul’s port.

Cheers
Qazulight

While you are right that 1YPEG is about the past and investing is about the future, the problem with metrics based on the future is that they are based on guesses. And, what are the guesses based on? Well, the past and someone’s idea of what is likely to happen next. I.e., a guess.

The advantage of 1YPEG is that it is based on actual numbers, not guesses. To be sure, it is history, but that means it is data, not speculation. And, its intent is not to be a final decision metric, but rather a screening tool. The idea is to identify companies who are growing very rapidly, but who don’t have an equivalently inflated PE, i.e., the market may not have priced in the growth to the extent they sometimes do.

And, yes, one does have to provide some further screening on other issues. The classic I keep citing is GILD with a big bump in earnings due to the introduction of Solvaldi. It is extremely unlikely that they are going to have a similar bump in earnings next year, unless they come up with another blockbuster, but it may still be that the market has not fully priced in the future earnings, so worth a look.

Likewise, a very small company that makes a transition from very small earnings to not quite so small earnings may look like fabulous growth until one looks at the actual size of the numbers.

So, yes, one can see these numbers and have surprises. Sometimes the surprises are justified, when the story changes or, at least, appears to. And sometimes, like lately, the surprises appear to be silly, temporary reactions, as if the stock was some high flyer built on air and speculation, when actually it is all substance.

The game is in telling the difference.

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Does anyone have future data for some of these stocks that we can use instead?

Any future estimate has plenty of risk that the models, assumptions, and expectations may simply be wrong. The only real data available to anyone is the present and the past.

Even if your future predictions are correct for the company, they may not be for the broader market or for the segment that company operates in