Average doctor in the U.S. makes $350,000/yr

Investment Analysis Clubs Macro Economic Trends and Risks
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… when you include kickbacks from drug companies. Lot’s of screaming over a new study based on doctor’s IRS tax returns.

{{ By accounting for all streams of income, they revealed that doctors make more than anyone thought — and more than any other occupation we’ve measured. In the prime earning years of 40 to 55, the average physician made $405,000 in 2017 — almost all of it (94 percent) from wages. Doctors in the top 10 percent averaged $1.3 million. And those in the top 1 percent averaged an astounding $4 million, though most of that (85 percent) came from business income or capital gains. }}

The biggest problem with doctoring is that it’s not “passive income”, and you have to spend too much time arguing with health insurance companies to get paid.

intercst

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That average is heavily weighted to the common PCP. Specialists of most types do much better than $350K

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Yes. There’s a chart in the article with income by specialty. Neurosurgery and Orthopedic Surgery tops the list, but they work much longer hours. The sweet spot appears to be Dermatology and Ophthalmology where 40-hr weeks are de rigueur.

intercst

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Doctors in western Europe excluding the UK make on a par with the US doctors. The US would poach more of them otherwise.

The specialists are coming closer to averaging $800k.

My dad some seven years ago was saying surgeons which lead the way in pay and medicine in general are paid historically more than ever before in the history of medicine.

The Boomers are creating the demand.

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[quote=“intercst, post:1, topic:95234”]
The biggest problem with doctoring
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So many comments, so little time.

“They come from a working paper, newly updated, that analyzes more than 10 million tax records from 965,000 physicians over 13 years.”

My concern is not what the data revealed, but how were they able to get the data off tax returns? Sounds a little sketchy. I know I nor DW didn’t sign any waiver allowing our medical income data to be mined. I wish they would have talked more about that.

The article makes a big deal about specialists. Looking at the chart, every country listed except Columbia had more specialists than GPs/interns.

The article talks about the lack of residency slots, more graduating medical school than training slots available. What was not mentioned, to produce an adequately trained physician, they have to see/experience X number of cases/patient contacts to get the appropriate experience to “first do no harm”. Sure, double the training slots, you just released a bunch of poorly trained physicians because they have seen 1/2 the cases needed.

Pay. Yes, I was well above the average and DW was really above the average. We both also worked well above the average number of hours/week. For me, 60 hours minimum, if I was on a call rotation that included a weekend, could push 90 hours. FWIW, read a study/survey about 10 years ago that the average work week for physicians was 60/hours.

Almost everyone still goes into medicine to “help people”. There are just too many easier ways to make as much if not more money. However, at the end of the day, at the end of school, at the end of training, you realize you have bills to pay just like everyone else. Plus greater debt. Plus a delay of saving for retirement by 10 years or more.

Somewhere, somehow, I missed all the kickbacks from drug companies.

Retired about 3 years and don’t really miss it.

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It’s anonymized IRS tax data. Researchers aren’t getting anything that allows them to identify an individual taxpayer. Any data the IRS publishes is off tax returns.

For example, if they asked the IRS for $1MM/yr doctors in a small town in North Dakota, they wouldn’t get it, since there might only be one or two. A data set with $1MM/yr doctors in New York City wouldn’t allow you identify an individual since the data set would be in the thousands.

intercst

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If we had “Medicare-for-all”, and every American could get the care they needed without the fear of bankruptcy, there’d be more “patient contacts” to train additional physicians. Every other developed country seems to be able to do it (e.g., the US has far fewer physicians per capita than more educated nations like Australia, most of Western Europe, etc), but they don’t suffer from the America legacy of celebrating racism, ignorance and innumeracy.

intercst

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@intercst tip of the hat that was an excellent analysis that last post.

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The US ranks higher than Australia in almost every education category. At the University level, the US has 5 of the top 10 ranked institutions in the world and Australia has zero. America has no more of a legacy of Racism than most other civilized nation.

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That’s just not true.
We fought a civil war over it.
Some would say we are still fighting that war.

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Probably true. I’m not sure I would conflate Rome’s history of slavery 2000 years ago with America’s which was still prevalent in a large part of the country as recently as the 1950’s. (Some would say, and be able to demonstrate, still today.)

I’m sure there is still some prejudice in Italy, and Germany and Japan certainly reduced whole sects to subhuman/slave category in the mid 20th century, (one say China is doing it still), so yes, it’s apparently - and sadly - a human trait, to render your enemies helpless but useful.

But somehow using “whataboutism” doesn’t really address the issue. Are you saying “because others did it in the past, that makes it OK?”

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That’s right, no other nation has been willing to sacrifice so much to advance the idea that all men are created equal. No other nation ended the idea of slavery faster than America.

Those continuing to stoke the fire or racism are those that benefit from continuing to perpetuate the myth. But if I’m wrong, please point me to which law or institution still perpetuates it.

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No, I’m saying America’s history of racism is hardly unique and as you point out, it knows no boundaries. Prejudice, unfortunately, exists and probably will continue to exist in the US and the rest of the world. However, there are currently no systemic or institutional obstacles that limit someone’s ability to prosper in this country simply because of skin color.

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Simply not true. The UK abolished the importation and sale of slaves in 1807, and the holding of slaves was abolished in 1833.

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Slavery started later in America than it did in the UK, so it had a much shorter run than in the UK and other nations.

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??? Perhaps you are relying on the technicality of America being a very young country compared to the vast majority of the world, but regardless, America was one of the last countries to abolish slavery.

So yes, you are relying on a technicality. The fact that we started slavery later is irrelevant (or at least, is no badge of honor). The fact that we continued it well past when other countries realized how wrong it was should be of greater significance.

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No. Other countries, most notably in sub-saharan Africa, where it had been de rigeuer for thousands of years, continued slavery long after the US and every Western society. England most notably, waged wars against slave interests in Africa to stamp it out, which led to the, not abolition but decline, of slavery there. Of course they fought back. Unfortunately, it still goes on today, however.

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It’s not a technicality and it is simply the truth that slavery had the shortest run in America. It’s a false narrative to suggest that it ended later in America because of a widely held commitment to preserving it, rather it’s an unfortunate by product of elevated state’s rights.

In the end, I’m not sure it matters or is productive to solving our current problems.

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Just a short note. Don’t know if I want to revisit this thread but Brazil ended slavery in 1888. Last of the Western holdouts.

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If we are to go by evidence of social retrogression, liberals have wreaked more havoc. . . than the supposed “legacy of slavery” they talk about. THOMAS SOWELL.

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