** has made a strong rally, surging past the coveted $70,000 mark and touching $71,785, as spot buying and the growing interest in spot Bitcoin exchange-traded funds (ETFs) contributed to the bullish momentum.**
Andy
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I have read some interesting articles about bitcoin. Some say that it is a bad investment and will retrace back down. Some are bullish and say it could go to 100k or 500k or who knows how high. One really good article said that the ETFâs that were approved back in the beginning of 2024 brought billions more into the bitcoin market and a record amount of bitcoin started trading. Then the halving occurred and decreased the amount of bitcoin being generated. Next numerous other countries approved bitcoin (UK and Hong Kong come to mind) with many nations adopting bitcoin too. Then lastly there are many institutional investors getting bitcoin into the portfolios for things like govt pension plans, school pension plans and state employee pension plans now that they can hold it as part of a portfolio all driving demand up for bitcoin during a time where availability is decreasing. As I read all these articles the ones about supply demand were the most compelling due to facts which support new highs for bitcoin. Of course this is just my guess and we will see in the future what bitcoin will doâŚdoc
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Doc I think once they made the Bitcoin etfâs that it finally made Bitcoin main stream. Now they are trying to make Ethereum ETFâs and they think that will be done soon. I have been holding some since 12000 Bitcoin and it has been an interesting ride.
Andy
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The investment case is that more people will want to own Bitcoin in the future than own it right now. That could be the case, but Iâm not aware of any good way to predict future public sentiment.
This Bitcoin maxi expresses concern that Bitcoin still has no real use cases and even after 15 years there appears to be fewer than half million daily users. He provides a possible explanation:
Experiences are what change peopleâs minds, and we build those experiences with technology, not conferences. As soon as we start delivering experiences that surpass anything fiat can do, people will adopt bitcoin automatically. Until we start delivering such services, no amount of books and blogs will change their minds or habits.
He then provides some suggestions:
In practice, this will often mean adding bitcoin to apps they use anyway. It might also mean disintermediating services theyâre already using. Like connecting gig drivers to passengers directly without Uber taking its cut. Like connecting artists directly to fans without Spotify and the record companies taking their cut. Like paying Dashers directly without DoorDash taking its cut.
The disconnect as I see it, is how do you create and maintain a network like DoorDash or Uber with extracting any fees? And by extension, to make Bitcoin functional, you need layers of third-party applications. Who pays for those?
https://bitcoinmagazine.com/culture/orange-pilling-has-stopped-working
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I donât get this as a reason to use Bitcoin. Sure, it might be a reason to INVEST/SPECULATE in bitcoin but not as a reason to use/spend it.
For example, if I thought Bitcoin was a good investment and likely to appreciate in value, why would I EVER cash it in or otherwise trade it for an everyday good or service when I could instead use US dollars that are depreciating in value every day?
The ONLY way I would ever spend my bitcoin in an app or otherwise pay for a good or service with it would be as a means to attempt tax avoidance on any gains. Of course, Bitcoin transactions are a public record to not reporting those gains would certainly put one at risk of an audit.
I own a lot of index funds. The last thing I would ever do is chose to spend an index fund to fill my gas tank when I could instead use my credit card (float!) or cash. Why would someone want to spend their bitcoin to do the same?
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That is the key point. To transfer money (in some electronic form, not paper currency) requires the existence of one or more middlemen. The current system (debit and credit cards) imposes a fee on the sellerâwhich is paid by the customer via a higher price. The seller is paid (say) 97% of the face value of the transaction, with the 3% fee being split between the sellerâs middleman, the bank issuing the card, and some clearing houses in between all of the above (each getting a piece of the 3%).
Any why should I care? My CC gives me cash back/points on top of that so I am incentivized to use my CC.
Unless the business is going to allow me to pay with less bitcoin (unlikely) then I fail to see your point. I still would be using an asset that I otherwise think is appreciating in value instead of an asset that is depreciating. That is an extremely dumb arbitrage decision.
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So⌠you are telling me there are no fees to use Bitcoin in a transaction?
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The author almost gets it. In order for the price to go up more people need to want to own Bitcoin. And at this point there arenât many legitimate use cases for Bitcoin, so creating more uses should drive adoption, which in turn should drive the price up.
But as you point out, if you are hoping the price will go up it doesnât make sense to spend it on every day purchases, regardless of the number of use cases.
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You did not understand. There are fees to use any non-cash payment system that requires middlemen to make it run. Cash requires no middlemanâbut it is also the easiest to have stolen/lost and not be recoverable. As stores will tend to want to NOT have a lot of cash on hand, they will deposit cash into a bankâwhere they will incur a small fee by the bank. But the fee is minimal (substantively smaller) when compared to the percentage of the gross selling price used by any other middleman.
No, Iâm trying to make a point. Credit cards require a middle man and a fee. Bitcoin IS NO DIFFERENT. There is a fee. The blockchain is the middle man. It is a trusted third party. It takes its fee.
You are saying what I said. A debit card has a minimal fee because that is the point of a debit card (no credit involved). Debit is pretty close to âcash nowâ, so minimal fee to use it.
Marketing my nfts from this position is impossible. They cost more than small buyers would pay.
I need to find a forum for high-end nfts
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Similar to you, I thought BTC will move similar to when Gold is launched as ETF, and it will be easy for the asset managers to add, etc. But so far, 10% of ETF is held by Hedge Funds, and 85% by retail.
Both retail investors and Hedge funds are notorious to exit when the price declines or in other words not diamond hands. 
May be eventually âboomersâ will come, but right now, they are walking so slowlyâŚ
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Are NFTs still a thing? I used to see all sorts of articles about them, but recently nothing except some Trump NFT stuff.
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NFTs have been a thing all along Many people get a kick out of getting a cheap NFT with a pair of sneakers. Or whatever merchandise when NFT prices were down and out. People get them when gambling at Draftâs KingsâŚetcâŚthe NBA Top Shots.
The craziness was out of it. The artists who made no money were discussed more after the bust. But before the bust they made no money. LOL
A good forum and they will sell. I wonât have to pay for ads either. I am sussing that out.
Two young dividend ETFâs that you might look at: CONY and MSTYâŚdoc
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Do the expense ratios, especially for ETFs, worry you at all?
Thanks,
Pete
Bitb expense ratio is 0 percent for the first six months and then .20 percent thereafter. Does that seem High?
Andy
Not particularly 
I was responding to Physiciansâ post advising to look at CONY and MSTY, though. Looks like theirs are both about 1%.
Pete
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