Blatantly Political and Probably Offensive Post

Ha ha, just kidding; this post has nothing at all to do with politics!

But here is my thesis – everyone groans and gripes about political posts (and rightly so!!!), but I bet a lot of people look at this post just to see what a complete horse’s patootie I am for doing a political post. (And now they will see that I am instead a horse’s patootie for a different reason entirely.)

So I am capitalizing on the “Lookie Lou” phenomenon, where traffic slows on the other side of a freeway from an accident because the people driving by cannot help themselves; they have to look at the carnage.

Anyway, on to investing business.

I have taken to heart the lesson Warren Buffet has taught us over an eon of successful investing: buy businesses, not stocks.

So, like Warren, I have decided to acquire a whole company, rather than just buying some of its stock. Warren did it with a railroad; I cannot afford a railroad, so I have decided to acquire the company STB, which is basically a provider of school bus services in the US (and a bit elsewhere).

STB is right in my investing wheelhouse – a highly leveraged company paying dividends well in excess of its FCF and funding those dividends out of new equity and debt placements, all in the context of a highly overvalued market and an economy that may well be heading into a recession that is not yet priced into the market. This is familiar territory for me, probably the circumstances in which I have done most of my investing.

Now, to be honest, I cannot really afford to buy all of STB at this time, although I am closer than I would be with a large railroad for sure. So I am going to go about this in a staggered, piecemeal way. I am buying 1,000 shares to get started, and will pick up the remaining shares opportunistically, taking STB private once I have 80% ownership.

Of course, at some point I will have to do some SEC filings, but I am pretty sure my current ownership stake does not trigger any filing requirements at this point.

If anyone has any questions about this strategy, they should probably ask Saul, because he is a lot smarter about such things than I. But I do not want to bug him – he is doing a great community service running this board – so instead maybe just email your questions to dgardner@fool.com. He just loves receiving that sort of email.

Rich
Inconspicuous Irv (what do you think? Is that better than Innocuous Irv?)

17 Likes

Rich, the trouble is that you don’t tell us anything about why you are buying shares in this student bus company. Growth? Of revenue? Of earnings? Cash flow? PE (over 100)? Expansion? Or do you just like the name of the company?

Just wondering?

Saul

3 Likes

Rich, the trouble is that you don’t tell us anything about why you are buying shares in this student bus company. Growth? Of revenue? Of earnings? Cash flow? PE (over 100)? Expansion? Or do you just like the name of the company?

Hi Saul,

First, it is bizarre – wrong in some fundamental sense – that you would ever ask me an investing question of any sort, since my investing performance over the years has been the approximate inverse of yours. (I survive only because I was lucky enough to co-found two companies in the high tech space back in the late 1990s. I have not yet managed to lose all of the proceeds from the sale of those two businesses.) Still, it is kind of cool to be asked!

Second, at an overall level, STB is risky for sure. If things go poorly, an investor could lose a lot here. OTOH, if STB can just maintain its dividend and continue as it has for a long time, it could provide very significant returns. (That is sort of typical for companies paying very high dividends – the difference here is that STB is sort of a recession-resistant business that, if anything, benefits from problems in the oil & gas space.)

More granularly, STB has a very high yield that I believe is reasonably safe, despite the points I made in my prior post. The business is, as mentioned, sort of recession-proof; in fact, it benefits from school district outsourcing of capital-intensive services in hard times, and it benefits mildly from distressed oil & gas prices. And it has been an effective consolidator for a while now in a highly fragmented industry with a long way to go in that effort – hard economic times will possibly allow more and cheaper acquisitions for STB.

STB has a business model very much like STON, so P/E is probably not a very good metric. And its debt is tied to the purchase of hard assets (buses, service contracts in acquired companies, etc.) and seems to be staggered reasonably well in terms of maturity dates.

The share price has dropped a lot due to short attacks on Seeking Alpha and the KMI debacle, which has many analogies to STB’s situation. I do not believe the short attack theses, and see significant differentiators from KMI, meaning that the share price is artificially depressed, possibly.

A well-established analyst whom I respect, Roger Conrad, has a favorable view of STB. I recommend Roger’s investor services (e.g., EnergyandIncome Advisor) – I mention this since I am mentioning one of his pieces of advice here, although not a new one or a central one – and I also point out that Roger called the oil crash about six months before it happened; he really knows the utility and commodity space.

I foresee hard times coming – of course, I have been saying that for over sixty years now, and am sometimes right and usually wrong, on the broken clock model – and expect, as do GMO and Jeremy Grantham, near-zero real returns from the market over the next 7 - 10 years. So a safe 10% dividend is a pretty good thing. The issue here is whether the word “safe” applies, I guess.

Finally, 1,000 shares is under $4,000 – so I am not exactly betting the farm here so far.

Best,

Rich

Incendiary Irv

17 Likes

Thanks Rich, that was really helpful for anyone on the board thinking of following you and investing in STB. I’m not being sarcastic here…that really WAS helpful, useful, and interesting.

Best

Saul

I could never invest in STB. My Grandfather drove for them back when they were taking kids to school by wagon. Well he fell asleep at the rein and unfortunately there was a rather large cliff right next to him. It ruined his reputation, they called him the sleeper of kiddie gulch, but of course that was the least of his worries. So, No, I will stay away from companies that transport anyone under 18. It seems the ones over 18 nobody cares what happens to them.

Andy

6 Likes

I would suggest that the dividend is not secure if it is not being earned.

Take a look at the financials http://www.fool.com/quote/nasdaq/student-transportation-inc/…

This company is in a multi year decline, it is trading at 62 times cash flow, 71 times earnings. The return on assets is less than 1% and yet at today’s price the dividend is greater than 12%.

This is not a Saul stock in any way.

Flygal
No position in STB

4 Likes

So, No, I will stay away from companies that transport anyone under 18. It seems the ones over 18 nobody cares what happens to them.

I guess that’s why cars have seat belts and I can’t carry my granddaughters in my car without one in a booster seat and the other in a more elaborate safety seat, but they both go to and from school on a bus without any of that.

<¡>but they both go to and from school on a bus without any of that.

Hey Rh after my grandfather’s accident they made the horses wear seat belts and the passengers life vests…just in case. And I live in the desert.

Andy

1 Like

More granularly, STB has a very high yield that I believe is reasonably safe, despite the points I made in my prior post. The business is, as mentioned, sort of recession-proof;

This is an excellent assertion for you to prove to us, and by proving it you can sleep well at night. The general rule of thumb is that if it seems too good to be true, then it is. Why would so many investors shun a 12.5% dividend? Why are you so much more certain than all the experts who would love to own a “safe” dividend like this. What % of cash flow goes to pay it? What % of earnings goes to pay it? This “recession proof” company is also very slow growth, where is the money coming from? Is there suddenly a thong of new school age children needing transportation. Here in Northern VA everyone drives their one kid to school in a huge SUV, they don’t need busses. EPS is 0.03. Dividend is 0.44. Show me how that math works and I am in like Flynn!

5 Likes

Looks like divi got cut in July. Given that rates are actually looking like they are increasing, I’d expect more pressure on this company and on the divi.

Why would people take the extra risk of holding this? A 12% divi is no good if the underlying shares keep decreasing in value.

I don’t mean to come off as sarcastic, I legitimately don’t see the draw of a 12% yield when the underlying is in such a strong downtrend, but would welcome some reasons to change my thinking

1 Like

I had a majority of my portfolio in dividend paying companies. I gradually decreased the percentage while moving out the yield curve. This was a losing proposition. Every one of the high yielders lost market value well beyond the dividend yield. I currently own just three of these companies, OKE, AINV and TGH. Except for OKE, these are reduced holdings (i.e, sold a good bit… they are all also “reduced” by Mr. Market).
I am quite reluctant to buy high dividend yielders now. I would rather invest in companies with 2% to 4% dividends and sell calls to boost returns. If you could look at Income Investors’ recommendations and analyze the returns versus the dividend yield you would see the ugly picture.

KC

Thank you guys for the feedback! Let me respond, not to argue but to discuss, since you were kind enough to inquire and comment.

First, this is a very risky investment, as is obvious from the high yield. The market is clearly pricing in a dividend cut and probably credit or balance sheet issues as well. And as we have seen with KMI, the market tends to get such things right most of the time. I would never encourage anyone to invest in STB!

Here are some responses and additional thoughts:

This company is in a multi year decline, it is trading at 62 times cash flow, 71 times earnings. The return on assets is less than 1% and yet at today’s price the dividend is greater than 12%.

This is not a Saul stock in any way.

Thanks Flygal! A couple of thoughts in response (not in argument, just discussion):

First, the last point is 100% correct, obviously. I hope no one thought that I was suggesting that STB is a Saul stock! It is at best a company that will pay its dividend and bounce back to a price that makes that dividend a reasonable percentage yield – maybe a double. That is not the likely scenario; it is the best case scenario. Saul would gag and choke if he accidentally found this company in his portfolio.

I think maybe FCF and P/E are not necessarily optimal metrics for this company, which grows vigorously through acquisitions (of companies and property and equipment) – at least, FCF and P/E do not tell the whole story. E.g., for a different perspective, looking at 2015 annual figures, the dividend was $34 MM and the CFFO was $56 MM, so if the dividend yield is about 12%, the CFFO yield is about 20%, implying a valuation at 5 x CFFO. Just another data point.

http://financials.morningstar.com/cash-flow/cf.html?t=STB&am…

The balance sheet seems pretty healthy to these uneducated eyes:

http://financials.morningstar.com/balance-sheet/bs.html?t=ST…

This is an excellent assertion for you to prove to us, and by proving it you can sleep well at night. The general rule of thumb is that if it seems too good to be true, then it is. Why would so many investors shun a 12.5% dividend?

Thanks Pete!

A combination of correctly perceived risk and reaction to aggressive shirt attacks, I think. See discussion below.

Why are you so much more certain than all the experts who would love to own a “safe” dividend like this.

I hope I am being as clear as possible that “certain” does not enter into this, or in fact any of my investing activities. For my thinking, see discussion below, although why anyone would want to see my thinking about investing escapes me. Now if you want to talk about physics or law, that is a different story . . . .

What % of cash flow goes to pay it?

34/56, or about 60% of CFFO. The rest of CFFO is spent on equipment and a bit on acquisitions, directly and in the form of interest payments on acquisition debt. FCF comes nowhere near covering the dividend.

What % of earnings goes to pay it? This “recession proof” company is also very slow growth, where is the money coming from?

For 2015, dividends were $34 MM and EBITDA was $70 MM. Taxable income was about zero due to depreciation and interest expense. This is standard for STB; it is STB’s business model (which has been followed with success for many years now, including through the Great Recession). Like STON, which uses a similar model, it seems to many to be a juggling act, and quite possibly they are right.

Basically, on average over time, CFFO is sufficient to cover investments in property (and of course interest expense, which is included in the calculation of CFFO), but not dividends and acquisitions. So if the company were to stop growing, the investment in property expenses would be reduced (but would still be significant) and the acquisition expenses eliminated, meaning that there should still be room for a dividend, but a reduced one. IOW, much of the dividend depends on continued growth of the business, which depends in large part on continued access to the credit markets. (All of this is just my best effort; I am not even competent at this stuff.)

The question is whether the market is over-pricing the undeniable risk here. If the company can continue to do what it has done since 2007, including through the Great Recession, this probably should be a $5.50 stock paying a 7% dividend or so, and at that price offering little prospect for growth. OTOH, that is not necessarily a bad deal in a very low return future, as predicted by a lot of people (Bill Gross, Jeremy Grantham, Jack Bogle, etc.).

How risky is this stock at current depressed prices? Very risky. But even Saul stocks are not necessarily safe these days – look at SKX, SWKS, BOFI, etc. – and we have not even had a real correction yet! So you have to, as you know, weigh the risk against the return. This is not so easy in tough environments.

Looks like divi got cut in July. Given that rates are actually looking like they are increasing, I’d expect more pressure on this company and on the divi.

Why would people take the extra risk of holding this? A 12% divi is no good if the underlying shares keep decreasing in value.

I don’t mean to come off as sarcastic, I legitimately don’t see the draw of a 12% yield when the underlying is in such a strong downtrend, but would welcome some reasons to change my thinking

Hi Mike, thanks for the comments.

The dividend was not cut last summer; the company began paying it in $US:

the Company’s Board of Directors approved a change in the currency of its monthly paid dividend at its recent Board meeting. Effective July 1, 2015, the beginning of the Company’s 2016 fiscal year, all dividends will be paid in U.S. dollars.

“With almost 90% of our revenues and cash flows in U.S. dollars (USD), a significant portion of our remaining debt in USD, and the fact that we have been reporting in USD for the past ten years, we have decided that it is in the best interests of our shareholders to monetize our forward foreign currency contracts and use our USD cash flow for our distributions,” stated Denis J. Gallagher, Chairman and CEO of Student Transportation Inc. "We remain a Canadian corporation and will continue to trade in Canadian dollars on the Toronto Stock Exchange, as well as maintain our listing on the NASDAQ which trades in USD. . . .

“The two currencies have been extremely volatile over the past few years,” added Gallagher. “Beginning the month of July 2015 and payable on August 17, 2015, we will be paying USD 0.0366 per share per month to shareholders of record. The amount was calculated on a volume weighted average price over the 30 day period prior to the Company’s most recent quarter end. As we have done for the past 123 consecutive months we will continue to pay the dividend monthly once approved by the Board of Directors on a quarterly basis. We believe this continues to be a very attractive investment and yield for shareholders. The new business and operational changes we have in place for our new fiscal year beginning this July will increase revenues, lower costs and put us in a better position to lower our payout ratio. Our goal over the next three fiscal years is to increase our operating cash flow per share by 5-7% annually.”

http://www.ridesta.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=912440

Looking at a five-year chart on the Toronto exchange, one can see that almost the entire price decline (in Canadian dollars, which eliminates currency effects) occurred in 2015.

http://web.tmxmoney.com/quote.php?qm_symbol=stb

What changed in 2015? Well, the world became more aware of credit risk, and that is important here for a highly leveraged company that grows by debt-funded acquisitions. This is risky! But also there was a real crescendo of short attacks on Seeing Alpha, all tied to the sustainability of the dividend, basically.

The dividend is easily covered by operating cash flow; the surplus operating cash flow is used, along with a lot of debt and some equity issuances, to fund acquisitions and investments in property. The amount of debt issued each year is roughly equal to the amount of debt repaid each year.

http://financials.morningstar.com/cash-flow/cf.html?t=STB&am…

The Company is now buying back shares, which does not seem consistent with the “cash-strapped” story being told by the shorts, and has paid a never-reduced monthly dividend for 131 consecutive months. The CEO is very confident that the Company is financially strong:

Student Transportation Inc. (STI) (TSX:STB) (NASDAQ:STB), . . .announced today that for the period of December 4, 2015 to December 8, 2015, it purchased 116,106 of its common shares pursuant to the normal course issuer bid (NCIB) program. . . .In addition, STI officers and directors have bought additional common shares in the market over the last few months reflecting their confidence in the company. [NOTE – these purchases do not show up with respect to the US-traded stock, probably because they were made on the Toronto exchnage.]

Denis J. Gallagher, Chairman and CEO of STI, stated, “Unfortunately our current share price today isn’t reflective of the strength and financial performance of the company. With significantly lower fuel prices this year, a portion of our fuel already locked in for next fiscal year at even lower prices, plus lower operating costs as we integrate more of our technology into our fleet; our business and operating performance has been at its best and highest levels in our history. We are headed into our strongest three quarters of the fiscal year with a tailwind from our new business model. Our core business is solid and our new non-asset business unit is building and running well, and we expect additional news to report on those businesses shortly. Our recent share purchases in the market reflect, what we believe to be, an undervalued share price relative to our business prospects, our intrinsic valuation, and to where we have traded over our eleven year history as a public company. With 90 percent of our revenues in US dollars, oil at a recent low of $37 barrel, interest and financing rates at all-time lows, combined with the strength of the U.S. dollar, our business is stronger today than it has ever been and is well-positioned for the future. Next week we will be paying our 131st consecutive monthly dividend. Our dividends have been a hallmark of our performance. They are approved quarterly in advance by the Board of Directors and we have not considered any change to that policy.”

Gallagher added, “Kids are still going to school. We are the best in the business at what we do and we have a tremendous reputation in the industry for safety, service and innovation. The stability of the business and long term visibility of our contracted revenues have always been key attributes of our success. I’ve never been more confident in our short term and long term financial and operating performance and our mission to build a great company.”

http://www.ridesta.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=946409

Every article in recent times on STB is negative. Most are short attack articles, but the following article seems balanced and sober to me (and it too is negative, just without the usual histrionics):

http://seekingalpha.com/article/3341795-student-transportati…

Thanks again for the comments. I am not really trying to acquire control of this company! But I will possibly buy more on dips if the CFFO remains strong and access to the credit markets is not threatened. Or I may listen to you guys and save myself some money!

Rich

Inconclusive Irv

19 Likes

We expect that people put stocks up for discussion on Saul’s Board that meet there criteria of Saul stocks.

I get that you are excited about this company. I think you are wrong, but we are Motley. But we are struggling to keep this board relevant. Gaucho Chris had a post about that a while back. We are here to discuss the merits of stock with a specific characteristics, posting about other stocks just clutters up the board.

You may have more luck looking for Deep value, or special situation boards for this kind of stock discussion.

Good luck with your investments
Flygal

you can see my holding on my profile page

2 Likes

We are here to discuss the merits of stock with a specific characteristics, posting about other stocks just clutters up the board.

You may have more luck looking for Deep value, or special situation boards for this kind of stock discussion.

Good luck with your investments
Flygal

OK, gotcha. I am gone.

Have a nice day.

8 Likes

Irv you can get upset and go away

Or

You could jump in with a stock that has the markers of a Saul type.

Tone is very hard to decern on the boards, I truly hope you have a good day. I hope you join in on Saul type stocks if they interest you. And if they do not interest you I hope you find an engaging board that suits YOUR interests.

Peace on earth and goodwill to all types of investors

Flygal
Long on Saul :slight_smile:

1 Like

Irv you can get upset and go away

Or

You could jump in with a stock that has the markers of a Saul type.

I hope Rich goes with Option C and keeps posting his tongue in cheek comments. If you don’t take them too seriously, they are a lot of fun to read. I think this board can use his humor. I believe there is a good appreciation for his posts as they consistently get a high number of recommendations.

So Rich, please stick around and don’t change! I’m all for finding more Saul type stocks, but we have plenty of posters that already do a good job of doing that. I always view Rich’s posts to get some comedy relief.

27 Likes

Hi Rich,

OK, gotcha. I am gone.

Just to let you know I noticed your post on STB and found it interesting. I will do some research on the company over the holidays and send you my thoughts directly. No sense bothering anyone over here with detailed and objective securities analysis! I can see that everyone has better things to think about here, including:

  1. What sort of things should be discussed on the board? This is an important question, and perhaps someone should start a new thread to debate the fine points of that.

  2. What sort of stocks qualify as “Saul stocks”? Are they only stocks that have a low 1YPEG? Or is it stocks that have a high 1YPEG? Darn it! I can never remember which it is.

  3. How do we handle stocks that previously were Saul stocks (i.e., owned by Saul), but no longer are Saul stocks (i.e., not owned by Saul)? For example, BOFI still seems to be a “Saul stock” in the objective sense, since it is the same company that it was a few months ago, and has all the same YPEG-y stuff going on, but since the Seeking Alpha folks have chased Saul out of it, it is no longer a “Saul stock” in the sense that Saul no longer owns it. Still, other board participants have no doubt invested considerable capital into it since Saul just a few months ago had some 20% of his liquid assets tied up in it. This is quite a conundrum!

  4. What will we do if a stock that was once a Saul stock, then lost its Saul stock status, then regained its Saul stock status, then lost it again, then gained it, then lost it… well, you see where this is going, and you can probably guess that I’m thinking of BOFI again! Yes, BOFI did bounce back and forth from being a Saul stock to not being a Saul stock many times. It currently is not a Saul stock, so just pretend I didn’t write any of this point #4. (If Saul later buys back in, then maybe we can talk about it again). Perhaps the answer to this is that we should ask an enterprising board participant to create some sort of web application that tracks all stocks that are cleared for discussion. What do you think?

  5. Is there a way we can tag our posts somehow, to properly identify them as “Saul stocks”? Maybe the best answer is that every stock suggestion that has not been vetted by Saul yet should be tagged with a “???” in the title to alert Saul that he should take a look and decide if the stock meets his criteria or not. And, if he says that it is not a Saul stock, then, please just stop talking about it immediately! People are short on time around here, and you are slowing them down with all this chatter about stocks that are not Saul stocks! On the other hand, if Saul decides that it is a Saul stock, then he will let you know by adding it to his real-money portfolio, at which point you are cleared to talk about it at the end of the month when he posts his monthly update, but no sooner (and be sure to cease all conversation if he happens to sell… unless he buys back in again, at which point you can talk about it… unless he sells… you get the picture).

I’m sure that the dedicated support staff here on Saul’s board (and I’m guessing as to who that might be, but from previous responses I gather it must be TMFflygal, drillerjim, GauchoChris, and one or two others-- I can tell who they are by their pieces of flair!*) will sort out these questions of protocol quickly and get back to us with the answers.

Meanwhile, I will take a look at STB and send you my thoughts in email! Again, we would not want to bother anybody with actual stock analysis that has not yet been blessed by Saul!

Rob

36 Likes

Is there a way we can tag our posts somehow, to properly identify them as “Saul stocks”? Maybe the best answer is that every stock suggestion that has not been vetted by Saul yet should be tagged with a “???” in the title to alert Saul that he should take a look and decide if the stock meets his criteria or not. And, if he says that it is not a Saul stock, then, please just stop talking about it immediately! People are short on time around here, and you are slowing them down with all this chatter about stocks that are not Saul stocks! On the other hand, if Saul decides that it is a Saul stock, then he will let you know by adding it to his real-money portfolio, at which point you are cleared to talk about it at the end of the month when he posts his monthly update, but no sooner (and be sure to cease all conversation if he happens to sell… unless he buys back in again, at which point you can talk about it… unless he sells… you get the picture).

I’m sure that the dedicated support staff here on Saul’s board (and I’m guessing as to who that might be, but from previous responses I gather it must be TMFflygal, drillerjim, GauchoChris, and one or two others-- Again, we would not want to bother anybody with actual stock analysis that has not yet been blessed by Saul!

Rob, There has been a lot of good come from this board. A lot of people have found it very helpful and useful. What Flygal and Driller Jim and GauchoChris and Neil and others are trying to do is trying to keep it from being killed by irrelevant posts and just your kind of sarcasm. If you don’t like the board you don’t have to be here. No one is forcing you. We are trying to keep it a discussion board for investing. An occasional funny post is fine, but when it extends into a long thread it’s no longer fine. If you want to have a board for humor and sarcasm it’s easy to do. Right on the top of each post you’ll see a link that says “Start a new board”. You seem really, REALLY UNHAPPY WITH ME, and with my board as I set it up. Feel free to START YOUR OWN BOARD. There’s no need to try to mess this one up with arguments, sarcasm and nastiness.

Saul

10 Likes

Hi Rob,

I got the email of your post and thought I would respond here, since I do not want to leave bad feelings behind on this board.

There is no need for you to look into STB, at least on my behalf. My investment is small, and I know you are very busy (in the best of all endeavors, raising young children!).

That said, if you are interested in STB on your own behalf – and it really is like a non-MLP version of STON, which was a PRO investment for a while – I would appreciate your sharing of your thoughts (privately or on another board).

I have learned from this board – it has some outstanding participants – and have wanted to contribute somehow. As you know, I am an awful investor, so I decided (as I did in PRO) that my best contribution would be to keep things light by occasionally posting offbeat ideas.

This STB stuff was sort of a mixture of a serious investing idea (as usual for me, probably a bad one) and a light-hearted touch. It seemed everyone was getting tense about BOFI and I thought maybe it would be good to refocus a bit, with a touch of humor.

Obviously, that did not work! Oh well . . . .

Anyway, this is Saul’s board, and it is an amazing contribution; he is really putting a lot of effort into helping people. And the board has, IMO, the complete right to define itself. I just misjudged that definition a bit – no harm done, and no bad feelings.

So I am not going away mad, not at all – just going away, a little embarrassed that I misjudged things. (And thanks, Wouter, for the kind thoughts, which reduce that embarrassment a bit.)

But, as a parting thought, I would urge everyone to relax a bit about BOFI; it is not really a huge emotional issue, unlike, say, the question of whether Brooks Robinson was a better third baseman than Mike Schmidt (yes he was!).

And now maybe it is time to consign this thread to the scrap heap of historry. . . ?

Best,

Rich

For Rob, still A Drumlin Daisy

28 Likes

I don’t get it Rob. Was that her index finger? How does an Index finger show more Flare? :slight_smile:

Andy