Cleanup

Financial Planning Estate Planning and the Fool
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For those getting up there in years, do your family a favor and start cleaning out your files. Definitely remove anything that might be embarrassing for them to find, and you don’t need to keep financial records going back decades.

My father was quite detailed and organized but I don’t think he needed to keep tax records from 1983 and every year since. Nor rollover transfers from 20+ years ago. He even kept in a 3 ring binder his original communications with the social security administration in 1999. Then kept for every year the updated payments they would give them due to COLAs. Literally from 1999 until 2021.

I wish I had an industrial shredder. Anything hand written and personal I will keep but all of these records are largely going into the shredder. Sometimes it gets to you a bit when you look at them and think geez, that was 1987, over 34 years ago. Then I realize how old I’m getting (late 50s). Life flies at times.

For the record his initial social security payment in 1999 was $1155 with my mom getting $541. I think his 2021 payments were $1848. I did a quick comparison to the inflation calculator over at MoneyChimp and that had it falling behind inflation by $100.

And thankfully my father had minimal financial things going on (pension, social security, Vanguard and TRowePrice covering it). I’d hate to imagine going through a 3-4 bedroom house with a basement and 30+ years of memories and junk accumulating.

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I’ve been contemplating a post like this for a bit. My wife passed away a few months ago. We both like to keep a bit too much stuff - no where near a hoarder issue, just lots of stuff. Mostly mementos that mean something to us but little or nothing to anyone else.

Cleaning all of that stuff out is a major chore. Enough of one that I don’t want to leave our son with that kind of job when my time comes.

So here’s what I’m working on. It will take a while.

I’m not just cleaning her stuff, I’m cleaning mine, too. Old photos are getting scanned and saved. That also makes them much easier to share with friends and family. I may keep a couple so that they can be properly framed and displayed. Otherwise, they’re going out in the trash. Ditto for old papers. Things that might be important in the future get scanned. Things that are meaningful but worthless get the same. And I’ve found one or two of sufficient meaning that I might frame and display.

Then there’s the other stuff. We had some wedding presents (from almost 40 years ago) that we never took out of the box. They were stored on a shelf in the garage. Those went to Goodwill or Salvation Army. She had her craft hobbies, which I was happy to support. But there were a ton of supplies that hadn’t yet been made into anything. Those I’ve been selling as large batches - mostly on craigslist. I don’t care too much about the money, I just want to get them to people who will use them.

I haven’t yet tackled things like the curio cabinet or two sets of Madonna Inn glasses (one my wife collected and one she inherited from her mother).

My goal in all of this is to greatly simplify my life. If it’s not meaningful to me or my son, it needs to get out of my house. Things with sufficient value are getting sold at significantly less than value. Things that are useful but of little value get donated. And a lot is just going into the trash.

This is a big job, but a necessary one. I have to keep reminding my son that we can’t get it all done in a weekend. Realistically, it’s going to take several months. But we will get it done.

And this isn’t just for folks in their later years. This is good for us in our 50s and 60s to deal with. This is going to allow me to enter my later years unburdened by all of this “stuff”. I can simplify my life and see meaningful things given to people who will appreciate them rather than collecting dust unappreciated on my shelves or in my garage.

Much of this was inspired by the concept of Swedish Death Cleaning. That is a cleaning up of your accumulated stuff so that your heirs don’t have to deal with it. I’ll let folks google the topic if they want to know more. But I can say that every time I spend a couple of hours dealing with this, I feel better.

–Peter

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First of all Peter, my condolences. I did not know you suffered that loss. I’m sorry for you.

I guess my question is when to start? I could die tomorrow, although, statistically I won’t. But when do I start thinning things out? At what level? For me, I am trying to consciously be aware of anything obviously that is not being used and is unlikely to be ever used. Those things I am trying to keep thinned. But there is a lot of “stuff” that I am using or enjoying now, but know won’t mean much to the kids or wife. There is the time dealing with such material, ie going to Goodwill, etc., and there is the time of sorting through it. The sorting through it is what worries me more for them. I have started slowly roughly “inventorying” such things and writing instructions on what could or should be done. The goal is to simplify their response and need to spend time sorting when I go. I’ve made a list of things even as general as, “All my books in my office are of no specific value, mainly investing and ukulele books, so offer to the library if they can use, or recycle.” They don’t need to look for hidden tax files for 2020 in that stuff. “The only critical papers are in the safe, including tax records, house papers, etc. All other folders are miscellaneous folders and papers are notes on investing, Excel work and etc, so throw it out/recycle.” “House items including equipment manuals and information are in the lower desk filing draw.” Etc. I have important computer files on USB keys and labeled, as well as listed what to be kept. They have instructions to just wipe or recycle my computer stuff other than those USB keys. They do not need to waste time going through any of it. I guess I what them to know what they need to keep for legal, financial, etc reasons and where it is, so they don’t need to spend hours/days/weeks looking through PDF files of music or how to write thinkscript for a scrap of something.

It’s all listed on one of the pages in my “envelope,” in the fireproof box, in the fire-safe that also has accounts, passwords, etc. I plan to be cremated, guess I want to give my family permission to basically “cremate” my stuff other that that listed, and not waste time trying to sort through it all.

The hard part is keeping it all up to date and separated. Having a den office and my hobby office makes it easier.

Lakedog

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My old accountant suggested putting tax records 10 or more years old into a box in the attic. Not bad. Nowadays I scan everything into the computer and transfer electronically to my accountant and I assume they keep those files awhile for their own protection.

Shredders aren’t that expensive. Mine shreds credit cards and DVDs and ten pages at a time. Type paper shredder into Amazon.

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My husband passed away 7 years ago this week and I am finally this spring working my way through piles of his stuff that has been in the attic since we moved here decades ago. I’m also finding a lot of my own stuff that I should have disposed of long ago. This has been my planned “winter project” for the last several years and this year it’s finally getting done. Not much paperwork at this point but lots of things. My local Buy Nothing Group has found new homes for most of the things. Right now there’s a box of curtain rods on the front porch awaiting pickup by a member of the group.

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I guess my question is when to start?

Now is good. :wink:

The Swedish Death cleaning concept would have you start getting serious somewhere around the age of 60. Which I am. And I also have some Swedish ancestry. I found that it speaks to me where I am now. It certainly won’t do the same for everyone.

More realistically, I’m not the one to tell you when to start. And some people are, by nature, not collectors of stuff. They don’t really need to worry about cleaning. They’re already all cleaned up. They’re constantly cleaned and de-cluttered, with a garage so empty their car gets lonely at night.

I suppose the best answer I can give is to consider the topic from time to time. By doing that, you’ll eventually know when you need to start your own cleaning saga.

–Peter

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My old accountant suggested putting tax records 10 or more years old into a box in the attic.

Oooohh. I’m an accountant. I suggest putting tax records of that age in the shredder, not the attic. The only exception might be records connected with assets you still own, like a house.

–Peter

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…there is a lot of “stuff” that I am using or enjoying now, So keep it.
…but know won’t mean much to the kids or wife. Then, they’ll have to decide what to keep as mementos, and what to sell/donate/toss. Hopefully it’ll be a bittersweet day reminiscing, with wine.

…when to start?
Didn’t you move recently? DH & I moved several times recently, purging a huge amount the first time, and lesser amounts with each subsequent move. The question of “do I want to pay to move this?” was a lot easier to answer than “do I want to get rid of this?”
We now have what we want, and no more. If/when we downsize (again) to move to a CCRC, we’ll go through the selection process again, but until then it’s just maintenance using the “one in, one out” guideline. Buy a coat, donate a coat. File taxes, shred the 10-year-old returns. Our current house has no attic and no basement, which helps a lot.

As far as “when,” definitely do it while you’re still competent to make decisions. I never worried about my dad’s hoarder tendencies because I figured as long as his stuff makes him happy, fine by me, and after he dies I’ll back up the dump trucks and he won’t care because he’ll be dead.
But, he didn’t die. He went into assisted living. I touched every single thing in his house and had to decide “would he want to keep this? if I get rid of it, will he ask about it later?”
I couldn’t ask him, because he’d want to keep it all, which would’ve been impossible. It was excruciating, throwing things out that weren’t mine to throw out, bit by bit clipping the ties that bound him to this world. Murder, murder most foul!
It’s now been 3 years since he went into AL, 2 years since his house was sold, and happily he’s never asked about his house or anything in it. When we talk (which is weekly), it’s about what my kids are doing, or sports, or weather, or something he can reminisce about (such as jury duty or a torn ACL) without getting into stuff he used to have. I’ve recuperated from the clean-up trauma, for the most part, but will not answer questions from siblings regarding what I did with anything. (They had their chance to go through the house, so if there’s anything they wanted, they should’ve taken it then, not think of it later. And ohbytheway they were no help whatsoever.)

I wish I had an industrial shredder.
When I cleaned out my dad’s house, I filled about a dozen (case of wine sized) boxes with papers, pictures, stickers, etc for the shredder. Basically, anything with anyone’s name on it went into the boxes, to minimize risk of identity theft or loss of privacy. A shredder truck came and made short work of it all.

Meanwhile, a couple of very enjoyable stories by people who decluttered (or tried to) decades’ worth of accumulations:
(1) https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/home/decluttering-e… 3/2/2021 by Bonnie Miller Rubin
Very relatable for anyone who’s at all sentimental. Also, hundreds of other stories in the comments, and very opposing views regarding what’s worth saving.
(2) https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/03/08/how-to-practic… 3/8/2021 by Ann Patchett
More analytical and entertaining than the WaPo article, with some truly funny observations.

Good luck!

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I’d hate to imagine going through a 3-4 bedroom house with a basement and 30+ years of memories and junk accumulating.

My father was a packrat, borderline semi-hoarder. He downsized from a 4 bedroom, 2 car garage, full basement with attic storage to a 4 bedroom, 1 car garage, half basement and moved most of the stuff with him after my mother died in 2012. He filled the garage and basement with sets of shelves, so most of it stayed boxed and off the floor. And then he started ordering all sorts of new gadgets. I’m still getting some really interesting catalogs in his name.

Pictures taken after the estate sale look like most families’ before shots. The house was emptied and sold, but I brought many boxes of sentimental items, art work, and old paperwork to my house to sort. I have been through most of it, but I still have a few boxes of very personal items I want to slowly sort through, take photos of the items and send them to my siblings and nieces to see if anyone wants anything. It’s the really personal stuff that is very hard to do. It’s one thing to decide you don’t want something, but it is another thing to be the one to dispose of it – gift, donate, recycle, landfill, 1-800-got-junk, etc

My parents had boxes and bags full of photos – none in albums, just envelopes of developed photos and loose photos sent by relatives and friends, stacks of photos inherited from other deceased relatives. I took a few weeks and did a massive photo box project with one of the local camera shops. They give you a box that holds about 1500 photos and they will digitize them for you. I told my siblings I would go through all of the pictures, pick out the best, give everyone a thumb drive of the best pictures and I would get rid of the rest of it. The nice printed photos fit into 2 archival boxes. My sister says she wants the rest of the photos. I have 7 cardboard bankers boxes full of photos for her – 1 box for each decade.

Scary thing with the old paperwork is how everything had social security numbers on it. Everyone used to use social security numbers as ID numbers – student IDs, library cards, etc.

When I was sitting in phone queues for hours, waiting to speak to customer service representatives, I would grab a stack of old papers and sort through it as I waited.

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Enough of one that I don’t want to leave our son with that kind of job when my time comes.

And if you do it now, you can tell your son why you chose to keep what you did and why it was important to you or your wife. Sorting through the items together can lead to you sharing some nice stories and memories. Your son will remember this time together. I remember helping my father clean out some of my mother’s things. He told me stories I had never heard. Unfortunately, he wasn’t able to get very far with it. Most of her things were boxed up for “later”. Some of it can’t be rushed.

Sometimes people keep things because there is a story behind it. After my mother died, one of her sisters sent me a little stone goose that she had kept above her kitchen sink. My aunt considered it special because my parents bought it as a gift for her when they went to Canada on their honeymoon. The little stone goose is meaningful to me now; I have it on a shelf above my kitchen sink. But it will be meaningless to my nieces if I don’t tell them that their grandparents bought it on their honeymoon.

But I can say that every time I spend a couple of hours dealing with this, I feel better.

I feel better too. It can be done a little at a time.

I am moving houses (into a senior friendly ranch house) and getting married this year. It is the perfect time for me to examine everything I own. And it is forcing me to deal with my parents’ stuff that I might have boxed up and put in the attic to deal with “later”.

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I have important computer files on USB keys and labeled, as well as listed what to be kept. They have instructions to just wipe or recycle my computer stuff other than those USB keys. They do not need to waste time going through any of it.

That is a very thoughtful thing to do. I hope to become that organized with my stuff after I finish going through all of my father’s electronic stuff.

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I had 70k digital images, plus a shoebox of analog pictures. My son said if I leave him 500 travel pictures and 500 family pictures he’ll look at them. If I leave him 70k, they will sit unlooked at and rot.

In addition to paperwork, thin out your photographs.

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In addition to paperwork, thin out your photographs.

Yep. In that respect, I am very lucky.

My wife loved to make scrapbooks. Not just sticking pictures in a book, but spending time decorating around them and telling a story. There are probably 30 or more on the shelf, including a few her mother did. Some are by topic - vacations or family reunions. Some are by year. There’s a couple of her family history going from WAY back up to her childhood. One from our wedding.

Those aren’t going anywhere.

But I do agree. Thin them out. Sort them by topic. If you have a family historian, see if they would like the old ones. Anything you can do helps. And if you’re keeping pictures of people your children won’t be able to identify instantly, write names on the back.

–Peter

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…when to start?
Didn’t you move recently? DH & I moved several times recently, purging a huge amount the first time, and lesser amounts with each subsequent move. The question of “do I want to pay to move this?” was a lot easier to answer than “do I want to get rid of this?”

My question was somewhat rhetorical. Yes, we moved in 2014 and again in 2016, and indeed did thin things significantly. My point is that I have a ton of books on subjects that I go back to and look at from time to time. Closets with storage bins of a variety of computer parts, cables, tools. Ukuleles and banjos, and a lot of music books, extra strings, etc. I still want that stuff around for now because I use it now, but they aren’t likely to want or need it without me. I plan to keep on doin’ for another 20 years or so. But I may die tomorrow, so where do you draw the line on stuff?

The goal is to make the time the kids spend sorting through things at a minimum, yet have the stuff around now that I want and enjoy today. What I’m wanting to do is make the “sorting” easier and simple. Ideally, the kids will open the safe (yes, they have the combination) take out the critical stuff, collect the other stuff as listed about the house they may need, grab anything they may want and walk away. I’ve told them to charge $20 a head, let people in and let them walk out with anything they want. I’m open to any ideas.

Obviously it is difficulty as it involves emotions. They get upset when we talk about going and assure us they will handle it when it happens. But we understand what it really will involve and want to minimize how overwhelmed they may become. When it happens, they will understand.

Lakedog
Who hopes their understanding comes a couple decades from now

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I’ve been through a LOT of downsizing/purging.

It took me two years to sort through my in-laws things…Christmas cards from 1976, an entire workshop of stained glass equipment and materials, their furniture and documents, pictured and “stuff”. In-laws Strokes, dementia and ill health meant that sorting was left to me. I vowed I would not leave that kind of a mess for my kids.

I have purged a great deal before, during, and after our last two moves. Other than some craft/quilting related items, we’re doing a good job of staying organized with our documents and not allowing clutter to take over.

One thing I found helpful was if I wasn’t sure if I wanted to keep something or not, I took a picture of it. If I was happy with just having the picture after a short period of time, the item itself would go.

Isewquilts…always fighting clutter

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How far back can they audit? I keep remembering the Clintons and whitewater and how they wanted 18 year old records. Granted I’ll never be famous or political but still it worried me. Like do I have to keep everything forever?

My darling daughter did her first tax return today. Age 25. She didn’t make much money but she’ll get back thousands. She’s excited.

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How far back can they audit?

Up to 7 years if they can show fraud. Your state may tack on another year so they have time to piggyback off any IRS adjustment.

—Peter

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Up to 7 years if they can show fraud. Your state may tack on another year so they have time to piggyback off any IRS adjustment.

Peter,

You are so helpful and generous with your time with everything you have going on.

I bought a small sole proprietorship in 2005 and closed it in 2018. Filed my last Schedule C in April 2019.

Does that mean I should mark all of my business records for destruction in 2026? (2019 + 7 years)

Or should I keep 2005 (15 year good will) and destroy 2006-2015 now? And destroy the rest annually?

Or something else?

It would be great if I could destroy some of this before I move this year.

HHP

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It’s all listed on one of the pages in my “envelope,” in the fireproof box, in the fire-safe that also has accounts, passwords, etc…Ideally, the kids will open the safe (yes, they have the combination) take out the critical stuff, collect the other stuff as listed about the house they may need, grab anything they may want and walk away.

Sounds like you’ve done more than most, and all that’s needed.

I have a fat 3-ring binder labeled “Estate Planning Docs” on my bookshelf, containing attorney’s card, wills, Trust, etc.
In the front are:

  • Death cert info. I’m pretty sure the kids know their grandparents’ names, but will they remember their middle names? Our SSN’s and places of birth? The info can be gathered, from birth certs and tax returns, but I figure it’s easier to have it all in one place.
  • Obituaries for DH and me, everything but ages & dates of death. Obits list survivors, and I plan to keep them updated any time a sibling moves or dies; but if I slack off, the kids will have to update. At least they’ll have a template to start with. They’ll probably remember, if they think hard enough, where DH & I worked, but almost certainly not what our positions were. Might remember where we went to college & grad school, won’t remember graduation dates. Etc.
  • Spreadsheet listing all our assets, their ownership (most are in our Trust, but not all), beneficiaries, and value.

Birth certs, passports, wedding cert, car titles, etc, are in a little fire safe (unlocked, with the key in the door in case it gets locked accidently) in my home office closet. Tax returns and passwords are in the file cabinet.

So, if DH & I were to go suddenly, everything the kids would need is in my home office, which is not cluttered. For everything else in the house, it’s totally up to them whether to go through any/everything or just call somebody to take it all away. I was very lucky at my dad’s house, that the junk hauler I used took everything and then sent about half to Goodwill and the other half to the dump. He had his own company, not a chain, and used to work for Goodwill himself. He had a warehouse where he did the sorting, but he also did some pre-sorting at the house. It was such a relief. I was burnt out at that point, with the “keep or don’t keep?” decisions. For “don’t keep,” I had no more bandwidth left to decide “donate or toss?”

Still to do:

  • Name DD as co-Trustee and PoA, so she can take over our finances seamlessly while we’re still alive. I got involved in my dad’s finances gradually over the years, and I anticipate turning things over to DD gradually at some point.
  • Pre-pay for our funerals. At the moment, we don’t know where (in which state) we’ll be living in 10 or 20 years, so have no idea what funeral home would be local. As things stand now, pre-paid funerals are transferable when people move, but I’d still rather hold off. I think that if/when we move to a CCRC, that would be a good time to pre-plan funerals. We also haven’t decided what we want done. Really, we don’t care, so whatever the kids decide would be fine with us, but if we can spare them having to decide, that would be nice.
  • Make a list of all credit cards. Make a list of everything on auto-pay, which is a lot. Basically, everything possible: rent, utilities, insurance, cell phones, 529 contributions, credit card balances, charitable contributions, newspaper & magazine subscriptions, internet & TV streaming services, recycling services,…
    At this point, just about the only thing I have to do manually is pay quarterly taxes, file taxes, pay for auto registration renewals and schedule/pay for house maintenance services. Oh, also I Venmo the AL aide who takes care of Dad’s parakeets. Unfortunately, Venmo doesn’t have an auto transfer option. But assuming Dad predeceases me, my kids won’t have to deal with that.

With my Dad, figuring out how best to help him as he declined was the real challenge. I expect that settling his estate will be, comparatively, a piece of cake.
So, for DH & me, the challenge is deciding how & where we’ll age, and how to involve the kids without unduly burdening them. I expect that settling our estates will be straightforward, except for the inevitable emotions, and there’s not much I can do about that (not sure I’d want to anyway).

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Or should I keep 2005 (15 year good will) and destroy 2006-2015 now? And destroy the rest annually?

This one is pretty close, and serves as a great example.

You don’t need to keep everything from 2005. Just the purchase agreement for the business. That would establish the Goodwill deductions on your more recent returns. Everything else you suggest can go.

–Peter

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