declare mission accomplished...

…and move the goalpost.

Russia states more limited war goal to ‘liberate’ Donbass

“The main objectives of the first stage of the operation have generally been accomplished,” Sergei Rudskoi, head of the Russian General Staff’s Main Operational Directorate, said in a speech.

“The combat potential of the Armed Forces of Ukraine has been considerably reduced, which … makes it possible to focus our core efforts on achieving the main goal, the liberation of Donbass.”

Rudskoi said Russia’s military had considered confining its operation just to Donbass but opted for extending across Ukraine to damage its military infrastructure and tie down forces so as to prevent them reinforcing the east.

Russia did not rule out storming cities, he said, but as its military completed tasks “our forces and resources will be concentrated on the main thing - the complete liberation of Donbass.”

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-says-first-phase…

The Ukrainian military has only been degraded by the number of bullets and rockets Russian soldiers and equipment have caught. The government Putin sought to overthrow is stronger than ever. NATO is more united than it has been in decades. They aren’t assaulting major cities because they can’t. They get shot to ribbons when they try. So, save face by saying they weren’t really trying to do any of that anyway.

Steve

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A different take:https://www.moonofalabama.org/2022/03/propaganda-does-not-ch…
Propaganda Does Not Change The War - The Ukraine Is Still Losing - Updated
At the link there is a plan of the Ukraine situation-courtesy of the French Ministry of Defence.
The U.S. has tried* to use yesterday’s NATO and G-7 meeting to push the Europeans towards sanctioning Russian hydrocarbon exports. It also tried to attach China to Russia and to get the Europeans to sanction its biggest trading partner. Both attempts failed. There will be no additional sanctions on Russia.

The only thing NATO agreed on is the release of a new load of fresh propaganda.

NATO: 7,000 to 15,000 Russian troops dead in Ukraine - AP

As one anonymous Pentagon officer said about the NATO number:

“We continue to have low confidence in those estimates”

https://consortiumnews.com/2022/03/23/pentagon-drops-truth-b…
Western corporate media, depending almost exclusively on Ukrainian sources, report that Russia is losing the war, with its military offensive “stalled,” and in frustration has deliberately targeted civilians and flattened cities.

Biden has bought into this part of the story, calling Russian President Vladimir Putin a “war criminal.” He has also said that Russia is planning a “false flag” chemical attack to pin on Ukraine.

But on Tuesday, the Pentagon took the bold step of leaking two stories to reporters that contradict those tales. “Russia’s conduct in the brutal war tells a different story than the widely accepted view that Vladimir Putin is intent on demolishing Ukraine and inflicting maximum civilian damage—and it reveals the Russian leader’s strategic balancing act,” reported Newsweek** in an article entitled, “Putin’s Bombers Could Devastate Ukraine But He’s Holding Back. Here’s Why.”

The piece quotes an unnamed analyst at the Pentagon’s Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) saying, “The heart of Kyiv has barely been touched. And almost all of the long-range strikes have been aimed at military targets.”

A retired U.S. Air Force officer now working as an analyst for a Pentagon contractor, added: “We need to understand Russia’s actual conduct. If we merely convince ourselves that Russia is bombing indiscriminately, or [that] it is failing to inflict more harm because its personnel are not up to the task or because it is technically inept, then we are not seeing the real conflict.”

Now I am clueless on what happening on the ground in the Ukraine. But conflicting opinion is coming from sources outside the Main Stream Media. I guess we will see what turns out to be the truth after the dust settle & the fog of war is gone.

*https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/biden-seeks-new-sanctions…
**https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/putin-s-bombers-could-d…

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Now I am clueless on what happening on the ground in the Ukraine. But conflicting opinion is coming from sources outside the Main Stream Media. I guess we will see what turns out to be the truth after the dust settle & the fog of war is gone.

Half of it is Russian disinformation. The other half is NATO/EU/Western disinformation. But we can use our brains.

  1. Russia invaded Ukraine
  2. The objective was to overthrow the government and install a Russian puppet
  3. The objective was not accomplished
  4. Germany changed its pacifist tune
  5. The West supported Ukraine short of taking the offensive
  6. Russia is the laughing stock of the world’s armed forces

Six dead Russian Generals is an indication that sergeants are better on the ground than high brass. Another example of the failure of central control.

The Captain

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Six dead Russian Generals is an indication that sergeants are better on the ground than high brass. Another example of the failure of central control.

The Captain

Each passing day, each bad event, bad news is moving Vlad’s needle more and more to the irrational zone. As if he needed any more motivation.

He, and therefore the entire scenario, is becoming more dangerous.

His buds in the Kremlin have GOT to be coalescing into a force to clamp him down. Sadly, they might be even less potent and organized than the poor Ruskie conscripts that are paying with their lives in Ukraine.

Half of it is Russian disinformation. The other half is NATO/EU/Western disinformation. But we can use our brains.

Ayup. I don’t put much stock in the Newsweek piece, quoting unnamed sources and “annalists” that are not in the loop.

The OP directly quotes the head of the Russian General Staff’s Main Operational Directorate, that they are moving the goalpost. That’s as close as a Russkie is going to come to admitting they have been beaten in a month.

Steve

7 Likes

…and move the goalpost.

I’m perfectly OK with moving the goalposts.

In fact, move them all the way to Moscow.

Mike

5 Likes

Mike: move them all the way to Moscow

#me,too
Perhaps Ukraine will recover Crimea, while they are retaking the Donbas?

:vulcan_salute:
ralph

1 Like

1. Russia invaded Ukraine
2. The objective was to overthrow the government and install a Russian puppet
3. The objective was not accomplished
4. Germany changed its pacifist tune
5. The West supported Ukraine short of taking the offensive
6. Russia is the laughing stock of the world’s armed forces

But we were old by the current president 18 months ago that Russia is the biggest threat to the USA.
https://www.efe.com/efe/english/portada/biden-says-russia-is…
Apparently we now know, if the information from the Main Stream Media is correct, that Russia isn’t even much of a threat to the Ukraine.

If the Ukrainians with a second rate military can hold their own with Russians with javelin & stinger infusion from the West; the American people have sold a bill of goods. And what was the purpose of the $63 increase in the defense budget to $813 billion. Apparently the defense industry oligarchs have a firm grip upon the federal government representatives.

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Six dead Russian Generals is an indication that sergeants are better on the ground than high brass. Another example of the failure of central control.

The Captain

Oh Generals have their uses as well. They tend to draw sniper fire with all those bright shiny medals making it easier for the friendly snipers to take them out.

Rule one on the battlefield, never be the most dangerous thing on the battlefield, it draws fire. Longevity for US flamethrower guys in actual combat in the Pacific WWII action was just a bit more than a minute and a quarter.

Rule two, if a young Lt stands up and says “follow me” … don’t.

Don’t shelter near a tank, they draw artillary fire.

If the Sgt. calls for volunteers … look busy.

Friendly fire ain’t friendly.

A veteran wearing five hero medals can get a beer in the local legion by handing the bar tender a five dollar bill.

Tim <had the good fun fortune to operate in all three military environments (Land, Sea and Air).

Oh, the German army use to give badges for kill milestones to their top snipers in Normandy. You know like five, ten, twenty, thirty on the badge. Once the allied soldiers figured it out they would shoot them when taken prisoner.

Oh, on the look busy bit … Winston Churchill insisted on touring the Normandy landing sites not long after they were somewhat cleared. He noticed that the Anti-Aircraft gun crews were sun tanning and playing soccer rather than manning their 40mm AA guns. He asked their commander why and was told that the air patrols had virtually wiped out the Luftwaffe units in the area so there was no real threat. The very next day the gun crews were dragging their guns through the hedgerows hunting German pillboxes to pound to dust with their 40mm guns.

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If the Ukrainians with a second rate military can hold their own with Russians with javelin & stinger infusion from the West; the American people have sold a bill of goods.

Ukraine is doing to the Russians what Vietnam and Afghanistan did to the Americas – just a lot faster.

The Captain

3 Likes

never be the most dangerous thing on the battlefield,

Don’t shelter near a tank, they draw artillary fire.

A couple Willie and Joe cartoons for you.

https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/aOQ8B2N_460s.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FNN5zYuX0AAqlJ3?format=jpg&n…

Steve

3 Likes

…and one commanding officer run over by his own angry tank drivers shows a certain lack of morale,

david fb

1 Like

If the Ukrainians with a second rate military can hold their own with Russians with javelin & stinger infusion from the West; the American people have sold a bill of goods.

Ukraine is doing to the Russians what Vietnam and Afghanistan did to the Americas – just a lot faster.

The Captain

The full military might was not applied in either the Vietnam or Afghanistan limited wars. Limited from the US side. The Vietnamese & Afghans were/are quite willing to fight to the last man.
Entry into both wars were blunders. In the case of Vietnamese the US was never going to invade N Vietnam as the US feared a reoccurrence of the Korean War in which the Chinese came to the aid of the opponent.
In the case of Afghanistan we enter to kill/capture bin Laden. Once he escaped due bribery of North Alliance members we had no reason to stay. But entered into a nation building adventure.
Both Vietnam Afghanistan wars involved US support corrupt regimes with little support by civilian populations. Both with p*ss-poor militaries led by corrupt generals.

These two foreign adventures makes one question the intelligence of those running the US government. Apparently no comptemplation of the cultures of the locales, inaccurate assessment of enemy determination to resist, support for corrupt local government, infrastructure projects and both nations not of strategic value. The risk/benefit ratio were in the opponents favor.
But the major problem of both wars was the lying to ourselves that our efforts were successful. “Light at the end of the tunnel”. A reluctance to cut & run and admit defeat.
https://discussion.fool.com/time-to-quotcut-runquot-in-afghanist…

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The full military might was not applied in either the Vietnam or Afghanistan limited wars.

Desde que inventaron las excusas nadie ha quedado mal.

You got your ass whipped.

El Capitán

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Russia certainly hasn’t used all of their weapons. They may have underestimated the intelligence the west could provide Ukraine which likely allowed them to out maneuver the Russians in many cases. They haven’t been able to do much against the constant aerial bombardment.

I would hardly say Russia lost or it is over by any means. Of course they certainly haven’t looked good, and may have also underestimated the support they had amongst their own people (it is quite mixed).

2 Likes

1. Russia invaded Ukraine
2. The objective was to overthrow the government and install a Russian puppet
3. The objective was not accomplished
4. Germany changed its pacifist tune
5. The West supported Ukraine short of taking the offensive
6. Russia is the laughing stock of the world’s armed forces

You left off…

  1. China is taking notes over potential Taiwan annexation.

JLC

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The full military might was not applied in either the Vietnam or Afghanistan limited wars.

Desde que inventaron las excusas nadie ha quedado mal.

You got your ass whipped.

El Capitán

Yes that is what usually happens when one sides places limits on itself in a conflict with an opponent willing to endure anything & fight to the last person. Obviously there was no clear, realistic thinking of those in power in the USA. Rather the government allowed hubris to cloud it’s thinking as it did in Iraq(in the planning stages prior to 9/11 according to former Secretary of the Treasury O;Neil), Syria(in which we got our ass whipped by Syria & Russia), Afganistan(in which we got our ass whupped), Libya (where our nation at least had the sense not to become involved after we utilized NATO to create the situation s that Qaddafi be removed from power ultimately creating a chaotic state home to terrorists & warlords-that goes into the loss column also).
The Russian invasion of the Ukraine is the same to the American War on Terror. Nations invaded because, well because we could but no realistic thought of the consequence of such an action. Methinks Russia will achieve control the eastern section of the Ukraine where the ethnic Russians minority are concentrated. A victory, though not a total victory, in comparison to US regime change attempts. Though the experience of this conflict will likely dissuade Russia from any future adventures into Eastern Europe. Thus creating more fodder for even more US defense spending. A win the the defense industry oligarchs. I also predict a return of US troops to Europe likely not in the numbers prior to the fall of the Soviet Union but an increase. Our NATO allies will enjoy the resulting cash infusion from such an action plus the increased protection such a deployment will provide.

6 Likes

In Vietnam, the combination of an approach that could hardly have been better designed to train the North Vietnamese civil and combat engineers without actually sending trainers to them, and rampant dishonesty in telling the American people and the world what was happening there, set up the defeat.

No part of which happened in Asia. Instead it happened in Washington DC, Paris, and newspapers.

2 Likes