I was watching a short Zeihan video on nickel. He brings up how many more minerals are needed in the manufacturing of EVs & green power generation. Thus many more supply lines are involved. And a kink in one can affect the end result.
Also the need for the many types of minerals would simple that there would be a need for increased mining. I would think that would mean more environmental pollution especially in nations without strict environmental laws which lessons the green nature of the EV (a hidden environmental cost) though I suspect over a lifetime of use they still pollute less than an IC.
https://zeihan.com/russia-sanctions-and-nickel/
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Another difficulty in going EV. People stealing the charging cables, presumably for the copper wiring.
https://www.motoringelectric.com/news/ev-charging-cable-thef…
JLC
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I was watching a short Zeihan video on nickel. He brings up how many more minerals are needed in the manufacturing of EVs & green power generation.
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Those same minerals are required in the manufacturing of nuclear/coal/natural gas power plant equipment. Just look at where nickel is used in the following USGS information center:
About 65% of the nickel consumed in the Western World is used to make austenitic stainless steel. Another 12% goes into superalloys (e.g., Inconel 600) or nonferrous alloys (e.g., cupronickel). Both families of alloys are widely used because of their corrosion resistance. The aerospace industry is a leading consumer of nickel-base superalloys. Turbine blades, discs and other critical parts of jet engines are fabricated from superalloys. Nickel-base superalloys are also used in land-based combustion turbines, such those found at electric power generation stations. The remaining 23% of consumption is divided between alloy steels, rechargeable batteries, catalysts and other chemicals, coinage, foundry products, and plating.
https://www.usgs.gov/centers/national-minerals-information-c…
Jaak
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Another difficulty in going EV. People stealing the charging cables, presumably for the copper wiring.
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I would not worry about this. You should be more worried about people stealing catalytic converters on ICE vehicles.
Jaak
I was watching a short Zeihan video on nickel. He brings up how many more minerals are needed in the manufacturing of EVs & green power generation.
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Those same minerals are required in the manufacturing of nuclear/coal/natural gas power plant equipment.
So, are you saying we should or shouldn’t have cars with nuclear power plants. 
DB2
Those same minerals are required in the manufacturing of nuclear/coal/natural gas power plant equipment.
So, are you saying we should or shouldn’t have cars with nuclear power plants.
DB2
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LOL! I am showing that EV cars are not a major user of nickel.
If we start to build many nuclear power plants, then the demand for nickel will increase.
Jaak
I am showing that EV cars are not a major user of nickel.
True that. EVs also require lithium manganese, cobalt, graphite, copper, chromium, zinc, rare earths and likely other minerals all with their individual supply chains. And a kink in one can affect the end result of construction of a EV. A kink that could result in a problem similar to the current microchip shortage.
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EVs also require lithium manganese, cobalt, graphite, copper, chromium, zinc, rare earths and likely other minerals all with their individual supply chains. And a kink in one can affect the end result of construction of a EV. A kink that could result in a problem similar to the current microchip shortage.
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Where is the kink that you are worried about?
Jaak
Where is the kink that you are worried about?
The immediate problem is that the Ukraine-Russia has driven commodity pricing through the roof.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/war-ukraine-leads-full-scale-…
Batteries make up a third of the cost of an EV. There have been writings as to whether there is enough lithium & cobalt &graphite needed for the batteries to power EVs. I believe graphite is a big problem is the main supply is in China. And our relationship is a competitive one that turn sour.
And that ain’t all.
“Natural disasters, civil unrest, trade disputes and company failures can all disrupt a mineral supply chain and the many products that depend on it – making many critical minerals a national security priority.”
And let’s add labor disputes in the extraction industries involved in mining the minerals necessary for production into the mix.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/the-u-s-is-worried-about…
Only one kink in one of the many necessary minerals required for EV production tossses a spanner into the works.
An additional problem is that EVs makers have been unable to bring down the pricing of an EV to the IC vehicle level. Until that occurs EVs remain an option for the professional class & wealthy consumer. Fleet conversion isn’t possible until that occurs.
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The immediate problem is that the Ukraine-Russia has driven commodity pricing through the roof.
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True, but I suspect much of it is knee jerk reaction to the war.
The commodity pricing surge hits ICE vehicles more than EVs because of fuel prices.
The commodity pricing surges in metals will hit manufacturing of appliances, tools, computers, and electronics just as much as EV batteries.
Cost of construction/repair of power plants, refineries, chemical plants, pipelines, LNG projects, ships, airplanes, trains, buildings will all be hit with commodity pricing surge.
Jaak
likely other minerals
Aluminium - aluminum which requires a lot of electricity to make.
Recycle your beer cans!
The Captain
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Aluminium - aluminum which requires a lot of electricity to make.
Recycle your beer cans!
The Captain
Move production to Quebec where they have lots of surplus clean Hydro power. Anymouse
Where is most aluminum produced in Canada?
Quebec
Canada currently produces primary (as opposed to recycled) aluminum at eight smelters in Quebec and one in Kitimat, British Columbia. Each plant belongs to one of three companies: Alcoa, Aluminerie Alouette and Rio Tinto (which bought Alcan in 2007). Rio Tinto also has an alumina refinery in Vaudreuil, Quebec. May 20, 2020
My main point is that there a lot more building blocks needed in the production of an EV. Any disruption in one affects production.
We have discovered the fragility of the globalization of the world economy of goods made in other low labor cost nations & just in time supply chain. Production of some items are in the process of being brought back to the US.
Geopolitical influence also can affect the supply chain. China has moved into #1 threat position according to US government. Any production of goods or raw materials is thus at risk.
And lets see how US oligarchs could influence US policy. The US defense industry always need a threat to drive sales.
In a recent post I link to an article about the defense industry influence:http://chuckspinney.blogspot.com/2022/02/how-narcotic-of-def…
While war is bad, the Russo-Ukrainian War has the champagne corks quietly popping in the Pentagon, on K Street, in the defense industry, and throughout the halls of Congress.
It is no accident that the United States is on the cusp of the Second Cold War.
Future historians may well view the last 30 years as a case study in the institutional survival of the American Military - Industrial - Congressional Complex (MICC), together with its supporting blob now saturating the media, think tanks, academia, and the intelligence community. Perhaps, these future historians will come also to view the Global War on Terror (GWOT) as the bridging operation that greased the transition to Cold War II by keeping defense budgets at Cold War levels after Cold War I ended. Also, 9-11 may have re-acclimated the American people to the climate of fear now needed to sustain Cold War II for the remainder of the 21st Century.
I couldn’t state it better.
In the link Spinney points out that the defense industry sponsored the “US Committee on NATO, a non-profit corporation formed in 1996 to promote the expansion of NATO and the strengthening of ties between the United States and Europe.” Bruce Jackson, a VP at Lockheed Martin, was chair. A new & different influencing effort besides campaign contributions.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_P._Jackson
Our nation likes to point out the Putin-Russian oligarch relationship.
Methinks the magnifying glass should also directed onto US internal oligarchical relationships with the US government.
Just yesterday I posted about the possibility of the Pharma industry influencing an FTC investigation of drug pricing. I’m hoping for an investigating reporter to look into the situation. Doubtful though with the Ukraine-Russian conflict distraction going on.
Time to crawl back under my rock.LOL
Thank you for recommending this post to our Best of feature.
likely other minerals
Aluminium - aluminum which requires a lot of electricity to make.
Recycle your beer cans!
The Captain
Tru dat!
IIRC aluminum is the only metal worth recycling 'cause the others are as cheap/expensive to recycle as mine, refine.
Desert (picks up empty aluminum cans while on exercise ‘walks’ on my tricycle) Dave
My tricycle
https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/95a3c3ba-25ff-4e9e-bcf2-a80…
IIRC aluminum is the only metal worth recycling 'cause the others are as cheap/expensive to recycle as mine, refine.
Rebars are recycled steel. There are several battery recycling startups:
https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q…
The Captain
Nucor Steel (NUE) is the largest steel producer in the US and AFAIK uses all recycled steel.
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IIRC aluminum is the only metal worth recycling 'cause the others are as cheap/expensive to recycle as mine, refine.
The Japanese killed the US steel industry by using scrap metal and mini mills to undercut mine/refine steel by as much as 30%. Most steel in Japan is recycled, I believe I recall reading that US steel is now about 50% recycled scrap. You may not think of it, but there are a lot of junk cars, water heaters, refrigerators and other things that can be melted down and reused.
Minimill steel can’t be used for everything, it doesn’t have quite the same tensile strength, but it’s good for about 75% or more of applications.
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My main point is that there a lot more building blocks needed in the production of an EV. Any disruption in one affects production.
Does an EV have a lot more building blocks than an ICE does? I’m not so sure. An ICE definitely has many more moving parts!
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“Minimill steel can’t be used for everything, it doesn’t have quite the same tensile strength…”
Minimill steel, aka pigiron, not as strong as steel.
My brother and I were playing golf. He chipped the ball and the club head went with it, fifty feet down the fairway.
Aka, pigiron.
,i.My main point is that there a lot more building blocks needed in the production of an EV. Any disruption in one affects production.
Does an EV have a lot more building blocks than an ICE does? I’m not so sure. An ICE definitely has many more moving parts!
https://zeihan.com/russia-sanctions-and-nickel/
I based my statement on the original link. See the chart 50 seconds into the video at the link.