England was not ready for war in 1938. So they threw Czechoslovkia under the bus hoping Hitler would keep his word & buy time.
That is hindsight, not reality. Who threw Czechoslovkia under the bus? It was not England. It was the inept government led by the incompetent Neville Chamberlain. Churchill was ready to go to war but was not in power to do so. Don’t tar and feather England but the inept government.
The Captain
“We shall choose Shame, and then have War thrown in” A month later, Churchill wrote to his friend Lord Moyne, explaining why a proposed visit to Moyne in Antigua might be problematic. From Churchill by Himself, page 257, Gilbert page 1155:
We seem to be very near the bleak choice between War and Shame. My feeling is that we shall choose Shame, and then have War thrown in a little later on even more adverse terms than at present.
While it might seem far off, Russia after Ukraine will approach other nations and sooner or later NATO.
Russia with 3 times the population is having a tough time of it in the Ukraine. I find highly doubtful Russia will take on NATO.
The Ukraine-Russia is being sold as a good vs evil war. Just as the US interventionist regime change wars were sold similarly by the corporate special interest owned MSM.
Few world leaders have endorsed Russia’s invasion. Some, however, might be forgiven for wondering how the United States, which bombed Serbia, invaded Iraq, occupied Afghanistan and attacked Libya, can claim that it opposes aggression. They are steeped in accounts of CIA kidnappings and torture in secret prisons, so calls from Washington to support the “rules-based order” ring hollow. They still refrain joining the Russian sanctions.
On February 27 I posted that the US had little moral ground to point the finger at Russia die to it’s past international meddling. It was summarily yanked. No notice from TMF explaining why.I postulated maybe because of traitorous Benedict Arnold option for deletion? https://discussion.fool.com/my-post-removed-without-explanation-…
I was snookered into believing the IRAQ WMD war. I rejected US reasons for subsequent wars.
And many Americans & veterans not agree. As citizens we need to look behind the curtain. https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/07/10/majorities-… Majorities of U.S. veterans, public say the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were not worth fighting
England was not ready for war in 1938. So they threw Czechoslovkia under the bus hoping Hitler would keep his word & buy time.
That is hindsight, not reality. Who threw Czechoslovkia under the bus? It was not England. It was the inept government led by the incompetent Neville Chamberlain. Churchill was ready to go to war but was not in power to do so. Don’t tar and feather England but the inept government.
The Captain
Chamberlain was the head of the ELECTED government.
The horror of WW 1 and the depression left little money for military weapon development or public appetite for war.
Only the Hawker Hurricane was in production in limited numbers. The Spitfire did not start production until 1938. None of the bombers that Britain would use in the war had made maiden flights let alone in production.
Without comparable air power England was in no position to fight a war. They had to rely on the US inadequate P 40 fighter in North Africa.
English tanks were inferior to German tanks also in the beginning of the war. Improved design then production took time.
Chamberlain was the head of the ELECTED government. The horror of WW 1 and the depression left little money for military weapon development or public appetite for war.
Only the Hawker Hurricane was in production in limited numbers. The Spitfire did not start production until 1938. None of the bombers that Britain would use in the war had made maiden flights let alone in production. Without comparable air power England was in no position to fight a war. They had to rely on the US inadequate P 40 fighter in North Africa. English tanks were inferior to German tanks also in the beginning of the war. Improved design then production took time.
I’m not denying any of that. Neville Chamberlain chickened out. Most un-British of him. And he got war anyway! Just like Winston Churchill wrote he would.
The horror of WW 1 left little money for military wrapon development or public appetite for war
Not forgetting an undercurrent of admiration for what Hitler had been able to achieve. Especially…but not exclusively…within the aristocracy and the Royal Family.
I grew up in England in the 1950s when there was an undercurrent of anti German sentiment and jingoism that a good many of us kids were also infected with. Most of us had one or more relatives who fought during WW 2 or were conscripted into support occupations. It came as a bit of a shock to me when I started in depth study of this period at school (“O” level European political history for anyone familiar with the UK education system) to find that my dad’s insistence that appeasement was well underway before Neville Chamberlain and Munich was far more accurate than I’d given him credit for.
Russia with 3 times the population is having a tough time of it in the Ukraine. I find highly doubtful Russia will take on NATO.
Why did you skip over the war that would happen with China if we do not take a stand now?
It is a war of good v evil. Not sure how you see Putin or Xi as anything less than evil.
You were snookered 21 years ago and you wont look at a totally different situation as separate?
I have no idea what the curtain is?
Yes Iraq and Afghanistan are problematic. I supported both wars. The Iraqi war for obscure reasons. I guess you might just dismiss me now. The Russian war in Ukraine happens not to be the Iraq or the Afghanistan wars.
my dad’s insistence that appeasement was well underway before Neville Chamberlain and Munich was far more accurate than I’d given him credit for.
It actually was not appeasement. It was known as the cannon theory. Neville Chamberlain was the last one with his hand on the barrel of the proverbial gun when it went off. Meaning the west were hoping Hitler would go to war in the east. Meanwhile the east were hoping Hitler would go off in the west. So the countries on either side did not take a stand. Hitler was emboldened and happen to strike a deal with the USSR first.
At this point Russia has struck a deal with China. The cannon is pointed our way…by China.
CNAS is funded by the Pentagon and by military-industrial complex corporations Northrop Grumman, Raytheon and Lockheed Martin, as well as the Taipei Economic and Cultural Representative Office, which as Antiwar’s Dave DeCamp notes is the de facto Taiwanese embassy in the U.S.
The war game simulates a conflict over Taiwan which we are informed is set in the year 2027, in which China launches strikes on the U.S. military in order to open the way to an invasion of the island.
Russia with 3 times the population is having a tough time of it in the Ukraine.
Tru dat! It has become apparent, at least to me, that Russia is a paper bear (paper tiger) with inept leadership, unmaintained equipment, inadequate infrastructure and mostly WWII era weapons.
I find highly doubtful Russia would be stupid enough to take on NATO.
Heck, even little Ukraine is beating them up.
BUT perception is reality and everybody has their own reasons for reacting to it in the way(s) they perceive it.