Docusign notes and thank you

I want to start by saying thank you to Saul and others for generously sharing your time and effort in teaching us on this board about investing. In the 2 plus years I’ve been following the board I’ve learned so much and it’s had a life changing effect for me. Thanks so much Saul.

I’m trying to contribute a bit more, and it sure is humbling trying to put together coherent and informational posts, hats off to all who do so. Anyway, here are my thoughts on Docusign:

I have a ~3% position in DOCU and am pondering whether to add, hold, or sell. Any feedback anyone has is much appreciated.

Revenue:
37 33 37 34
37 41 40 38
39

Billings:
33 32 40 31
27 47 36 40
59

In the call when asked to explain the spike in billings the CFO suggested focusing on TTM billings rather than on an outlying Q.
TTM billings growth% = 45.5%

We generated $23 million in non-GAAP operating profit or an 8% operating margin in the quarter. This compares with $10 million or 5% operating margin in the first quarter of last year.

This quarter, we added almost 68,000 new customers, of those, approximately 10,000 were direct customers, an increase of 43% year-over-year.

Strong eSignature expansions and upsells into our existing customer base led to dollar net retention of 119% in the quarter. (this was referred to as an acceleration though I couldn’t find the previous numbers)

We engaged a new public sector customer, the Department of Labor in one of the largest U.S. states to help transform its previously complex and lengthy process for handling emergency unemployment benefit. Supported by DocuSign eSignature, the department distributed over $500 million in benefits to more than 500,000 residents in less than one week. We enabled hundreds of U.S. national and regional financial institutions to accept applications for Small Business Administration loans more efficiently. In one of those large banks, we were involved with over 0.5 million loan applications, 75% of which were signed in less than 24 hours.

Remote work is here to stay. Core business processes will only become more digital and agreements will need to be completed from anywhere, at any time on almost any device. As a result, for organizations that hadn’t already embraced DocuSign for eSignature, that were only using us for a few select use cases, the pandemic has been a catalyst for the greater digital transformation of their end-to-end agreement processes. We always believed this transformation will happen and that a unifying platform for agreements will be needed. COVID-19 is just happening faster.

Rob Owens – Piper Sandler – Analyst

Yeah, good afternoon and thanks for taking my question. I was hoping you could expand a little bit around the federal sector and I know you’ve been building up the data center for a couple of quarters, which is cost capex, but in terms of where it ranks now in terms of verticals and really where this opportunity could go over the next couple of years.

Dan Springer – Chief Executive Officer

Yeah, absolutely. And I think government overall is an important vertical for us, although, as I mentioned before, it’s no one vertical is a dramatic portion of our revenue and we don’t see government overall in the top couple, but it is an important and growing segment nonetheless. I mentioned some of the examples I gave around government, if you think about the state and local segments in the state example I gave around the health and human services side and people doing processing of emergency needs to get unemployment benefits of folks, we saw that as a very strong quarter for us and we’ve had a lot of momentum there. Federal have been newer for us and because part of that was getting the FedRAMP certification that was required to serve a lot of folks, and now we’re building the dedicated data center as you referred to, which will unlock another set of opportunities for us with different federal agencies.

But we also – have also mentioned before and we see this as well that even in a COVID-19 situation, we may see that some aspects of the federal government still moves a little bit more slowly than some of the other private sector in terms of adoption of digital technologies. So we will be a patient provider to them as a customer. And I think from a long term perspective, we continue to see this as a dramatic growth opportunity.

My take:

Revenue guidance for the year was raised from 31% at the high end last quarter to 35%. Guidance for the next quarter was raised to 36% versus 33% guided for the quarter just reported. This leads me to believe we should see 40%+ revenue growth next quarter and likely for the year. An acceleration at larger scale (albeit not a huge one) from prior years.

DOCU has 1.05B in TTM revenue and growth is accelerating. To me that suggests they are likely to become a much bigger company, and TAM is huge. Think about it, just about every business(and individual) is a potential customer(user) for them.

Also a question for Saul and others is how do you view ~40% consistent and slightly increasing at larger scale growth of a company like Docusign vs companies like DDOG and CRWD with 80%+ growth at smaller scale.

I can’t help but think what will the growth rate be for DDOG and CRWD at this run rate? Do others expect it will still be 60-70% plus at that point? Or investing wise do you just focus on the current growth, and worry about the slowing growth if/when it happens?

This seems like something you do very well, Saul. Block out the noise (what if? etc) that other investors get caught up in and that causes them to sell rather than sticking with promising companies. Focus on the results and don’t get too caught up with the what ifs. Is that accurate?

Kyle

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I was rather disappointed that revenue growth did not accelerate compared to previous quarters. There was much talk about how Covid would accelerate the demand for e-signatures. Perhaps I was expecting too much :smiley:

I was rather disappointed that revenue growth did not accelerate compared to previous quarters. There was much talk about how Covid would accelerate the demand for e-signatures. Perhaps I was expecting too much :smiley:

Not to toot my horn but a while back I commented that Docusign is a great business but it would be less affected by covid-19 than, say, Zoom. It’s important to understand the business.

Denny Schlesinger

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I was thinking about this comment, Denny, and it seems to me that Docusign is more of a second-level need in the WFH segment. But, I think it becomes even more important to internal efficiency as offices adopt scheduled work-from-home over the longer term.

I hope that this means that Docusign’s take-up cycle is merely delayed, compared with first-level needs like Zoom.

-Another Rob

(I’m not sure how to compare the second-level-ness of WFH utilities against each other, when they are wildly different parts of the business. *(Crowdstrike or Docusign) vs. Zoom is obvious to me, but Crowdstrike vs. Docusign is the importance between (“Sales” or “IT”) or (“HR” or “IT”))

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(I’m not sure how to compare the second-level-ness of WFH utilities against each other, when they are wildly different parts of the business. *(Crowdstrike or Docusign) vs. Zoom is obvious to me, but Crowdstrike vs. Docusign is the importance between (“Sales” or “IT”) or (“HR” or “IT”))

I like Louis Navellier’s approach: “What is working on Wall Street NOW?”

Time is Money. :wink:

Denny Schlesinger

Thanks for the write up, Kyle. On the percentage growth you gave, I want to emphasize the number that to my eyes, came out of nowhere. I’ve done so below:

Revenue:
37 33 37 34
37 41 40 38
39

Billings:
33 32 40 31
27 47 36 40
59

In the call when asked to explain the spike in billings the CFO suggested focusing on TTM billings rather than on an outlying Q.
TTM billings growth% = 45.5%

59% billings growth! That was more than they’ve seen since they’ve been public…maybe since they were tiny. That’s a great number. You (and the CFO) are right to caution that one quarter of billings should not be overstated, good or bad. But it was enough to make me sit up in my chair.

The tick up to 39% YoY revenue growth wasn’t as eye-popping, but it was a big beat (they had guided for 33% growth). Looking forward, though, I think growth will be in the 40%+ range which IS significant acceleration! They raised guidance for full year revenue and billings significantly, but I believe they will be raising it more soon. Why?

Customer growth this quarter was off the charts. Here’s how many they’ve added the last several quarters:

Oct 2018: 25k
Jan 2019: 23k
Apr 2019: 31k
Jul 2019: 29k
Oct 2019: 25k
Jan 2020: 27k
Apr 2020: 68k

This quarter they added more than twice as many customers as in any quarter before! Next quarter should naturally be strong, as it will be the first full quarter for all these new customers. And then of course there is also the “expand” to come.

I took a mid sized position between Thursday after hours, and Friday. I see them as kind of a freeroll. They’re reasonably valued now*, and I could even see them being bid up a bit. Any revenue acceleration would be gravy, as would any of their increased revenue that makes it to the bottom line (they already eke out a little EPS). This is no hyper-growth company, but they are in the enviable position of experiencing tailwinds instead of headwinds. This is allowing them to raise guidance when many other companies are lowering it. And this is why I believe they are set up for some strong quarters ahead.

Bear

*Docusign shares have almost doubled in 2020 already. I believe the market is starting to see them as an inevitable winner, like it does Shopify and Okta and Veeva. When this happens, these companies are never again classically underpriced. With more than $1b in annual revenue, Docusign seems pretty entrenched to me as well. With no issues like a business model transition looming over them, Docusign is rightly seen as simple, high margin SaaS.

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Paul,

this is great articulation. I have small position and has considerably gone up. By default I would reduce this because of valuation but with your articulation, I am thinking of adding more, or at-least holding as it is.

thanks
nilvest

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I believe the market is starting to see them as an inevitable winner, like it does Shopify and Okta and Veeva. When this happens, these companies are never again classically underpriced. With more than $1b in annual revenue, Docusign seems pretty entrenched to me as well.

Maybe but leaving the numbers aside, I don’t have the conviction in Docusign that I do in Shopify or the optimism I hold for Zoom.

Shopify outflanked everyone in an underserved market that sports the largest TAM on the planet.

Zoom competes with a handful of players with shoddy execution and they are by far the simplest Ux to handle vs Webex, Skype and Teams which are all complicated and often poorly performing. Developing a new VC system has barriers to entry.

Docusign competes with paper - ok that’s a no brainer but then a lot of almost identical solutions with no differentiation and no barriers to entry. Plus just to make it difficult - the end product you usually want a signed eDocument to be in is the form of a PDF which is owned by a competing outfit Acrobat.

I have done CDAs & contracting with 2 multi national corps in the last 2 weeks. 1 was in Docusign the other in Acrobat. Both experiences were identical in their execution with only service being a differentiator which was a function of the client not the software.

Zoom and Shopify you can see, feel and care about the difference. I couldn’t care less how my eSignatures is done so long as it is frictionless.

I’m not promoting another name in the SOA or eSignature space but I don’t think the space or the player is as attractive as elsewhere.

Ant

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I have done CDAs & contracting with 2 multi national corps in the last 2 weeks. 1 was in Docusign the other in Acrobat. Both experiences were identical in their execution with only service being a differentiator which was a function of the client not the software.

Isn’t that the key though? You weren’t Docusign’s customer, right?

Perhaps for the customer…and to make this more fun let’s even suppose Docusign is more expensive than other options…perhaps they choose Docusign because of some combination of factors like:

  • Docusign’s products are easier to use out of the box and don’t break (this is similar to Zoom’s advantage, right?)
  • Docusign’s support is better, and not just admin support, but maybe custom solutions and such
  • Docusign’s sales team is responsive and flexible when customers’ needs change
  • Some people (not you) recognize Docusign’s name and not others’, and so companies get fewer “what the eff is this?” questions with Docusign
  • etc (feel free to think of more)

There are plenty of ways for a company to make themselves more valuable other than having a better mousetrap (or having the lowest price). I don’t know if these things I made up about Docusign above are true, and even if they are, I think these advantages are intangible and penetrable. But in the last 90 days 68,000 customers chose to at least include Docusign in the solutions they use for e-signing and other services. So I think it’s reasonable to assume Docusign customers are finding value that we don’t see when we e-sign our name to a contract.

Bear

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1 was in Docusign the other in Acrobat. Both experiences were identical in their execution with only service being a differentiator which was a function of the client not the software.

One was performed in any browser, the other required you to have Acrobat installed? (I don’t have Acrobat installed on any of my Apples. It is only on the Dell my son uses for AutoCAD.) I’ve done Docusign on phones… I don’t even know if Acrobat is available for phones?

Many here don’t seem to understand Docusigns competitive advantage, there’s a great article on SS investing everyone interested in DOCU should read: https://softwarestackinvesting.com/docusign-docu-stock-analy…

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I just want to reiterate a couple things from when I first brought Docusign to the board: https://discussion.fool.com/i39ve-been-starting-to-watch-this-bo…

I have worked in 4 large consulting firms. In all 4, no one has even considered implementing Adobe’s product in the last 5+ years for a client and even back then, we always chose Docusign. Docusign is practically a verb at this point. You don’t sign something, you Docusign something. It is the safe choice. The product is relatively simple and results in successful client implementations so we alway use it. It is easy to use for our customer’s customers. Something else would have to be twice as good to change what we recommend for clients at this point (or be owned by Microsoft and then corporate IS&T would just buy it without thought). Right now, there is nothing else on the market. Unless they start giving away Echosign free, people aren’t going to choose it and even then they might not.

It is definitely not Zoom. I agree with someone else here that is it is WFH 2nd tier (only because Zoom owns the first tier). However, it is a great company and probably a better investment than some others widely discussed here.

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Many here don’t seem to understand Docusigns competitive advantage, there’s a great article on SS investing everyone interested in DOCU should read: https://softwarestackinvesting.com/docusign-docu-stock-analy…

Anyone investing in DOCU needs to read this!

"After the dot-com crash of 2001, the founders of DocuSign acquired the assets of DocuTouch, which included several patents on the digital signature process. "
It is always nice to know there are patents involved. Earmarking this for future research.

It feels like the article ends about 20% in when you hit the quarterly performance stuff, but skip that and keep going. It is worth it! You get a breakdown of the platform that was the reason I decided to start a position. Thier Agreement Cloud (https://www.docusign.com/products/agreement-cloud). The article includes screen shots of what it looks like at various steps too! This part in particular echos my own thoughts exactly:

Most investors are likely familiar with DocuSign’s electronic signature products. All of us have clicked through on a scanned paper document to affirm our agreement and “sign” it. If that were the extent of DocuSign’s offerings, I wouldn’t be very interested. However, in the last year, they have significantly built out their platform offering to address the full lifecycle of digital agreements. This includes document preparation, signing, follow-up actions like payment collection and managing multiple agreements. These services are openly accessible through APIs and other programmability features. Additionally, they are decomposing the elements of contracts into discrete objects and leveraging AI to surface risks, sales opportunities and monitor terms.

If you don’t have time to read everything in the article here is an image you jump right to: https://softwarestackinvesting.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/0…

What I didn’t have straight is that I thought DocuSign’s Contract Lifecycle Management (CLM - https://www.docusign.com/products/clm) system WAS the “Agreement Cloud” but apparently it is only the last part!
“Once an agreement has been executed and signed, the system can be wired to kick off a set of follow-on activities. These might include collecting a payment, updating customer data in another system, like the CRM, or triggering new workflows, like customer on-boarding or product delivery.”

I’m not yet clear on how many of these steps might be additional opportunities to capitalize on the process. Could they do what Shopify has done and provide additional services to support the process and make more money?

CLM is still a very small part of their business. I posted a bit about it here: https://discussion.fool.com/today-i-added-significantly-to-zm-cr…
I’m not clear on how all the parts of the Agreement Cloud contribute.


This isn’t from the article directly but it pointed me to this page on DocuSign’s site. This is interesting: Gen For Salesforce (https://www.docusign.com/products/gen) is a Salsforce-native app described by DocuSign as being for “Fast, professional agreements: Effortlessly merge customer, product, and pricing data to generate agreements in Microsoft Word, PDF or DocuSign Agreement Cloud document formats.” "Prepare, sign and store agreements, all within Salesforce…


Also worth a look is this video on DocuSign’s website:
“Learn how DocuSign CLM works”
https://www.docusign.ca/products/clm

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I have firsthand experience in DOCU since i am designing a software solution for my company using Docusign’s APIs.
Yes, most of their customers use the API’s provided by Docusign to automate the process of requesting signatures in documents.
There are two types of signing 1) Customer gets an email where the signature is requested 2) The signature can be embedded inside a custom application itself

Things that i like about Docusign 1) Excellent tech evangelism 2) Great help in github https://github.com/docusign
you can sign for a free developer’s account and play around with their sandbox. Everything is free for developers.
They give you lots of code samples for every possible scenario for many programming languages
I found the examples ‘worked’ the first time. I have had prior situations with other software where i had to work extremely hard to make a ‘working’ example ‘work’. Not with docusign.

They host weekly developer seminars with an API focus. In these seminars the developers ask questions from their particular scenario and expect response from docusign team. I loved it.

Now coming to the final part. It is extremely sticky. My company has been using docusign for a couple of years now and now they have turned to using APIs. once the company starts using API in a live system there is no going back. Business users don’t like change a lot and if it works they will not change it at all.

Praveen
Long DOCU

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Actively pursuing purchasing real estate in northern California. Two agents from two different companies required me to complete Docusign electronic documents verifying that I will comply with Covid precautions before getting a tour of the homes I am looking at. No possibility of using non electronic documents. … This is a no brainer for the agents. I can just hear the lawyers.

Also worth a look is this video on DocuSign’s website:
“Learn how DocuSign CLM works”

I can give a bit of first hand experience here, hopefully it helps others understand the benefit of CLM.

I work for a large multinational O&G company and last year we finally implemented Salesforce for all our commercial staff within my organization.

Along with implementing Salesforce, we finally began using DocuSign. Prior to using DocuSign, I would have to mail the contract across the country for signatures and the entire process would take weeks. Once you switch to DocuSign, you are never going back to the old archaic ways.

Anyway, as it relates to CLM, our organization also starting using SpringCM for CLM. SpringCM is embedded into Salesforce for us, so I always figured this was a neat feature they provided. It wasn’t until recently I learned SpringCM is owned by DocuSign.

We use SpringCM to upload all contracts and other documents related to the negotiation of a new contract. For instance, the first upload would likely be the draft contract, followed by the first finalized contract. Any sort of analysis towards the offer or management approval will also be uploaded. Each time the contract is changed throughout negotiations, the new version will be uploaded. In some cases, up to ten different versions can be uploaded as the negotiations have gone back and forth.

It is a very useful tool, as now any one can go into an old agreement and view the entire folder of documents as it relates to a contract. Everything is there in one place and readily accessible. The fact that this tool is embedded within Salesforce is the cherry on top.

Once I learned DocuSign owned SpringCM, I took a position. I believe DocuSign has the potential to turn into a company like Adobe in the years to come.

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“Learn how DocuSign CLM works”

What does CLM stand for?
https://www.acronymfinder.com/CLM.html

Castilla-La Mancha (Spain)
Cute Little Monster
Commerce, Law and Management (University of the Witwatersrand; South Africa)
Contre la Montre (French: Against the Watch; cycling)
Colorectal Liver Metastases (disease)
Claim
Claremont (Amtrak station code; Claremont, CA)
Cutaneous Larva Migrans (skin disease)
Christian Life Ministries (various locations)
Conditional Logit Model

63 more on the list…

Please don’t assume that we all know what the letters stand for!

Denny Schlesinger

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Contract Lifecycle Management. I got that by googling Docusign, CLM

https://www.docusign.com/products/clm

Deb

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I believe DocuSign has the potential to turn into a company like Adobe in the years to come.

Well, Adobe has its own product, Adobe Sign (which used to be EchoSign, a company that Adobe acquired many years ago).

Dropbox acquired HelloSign about a year and a half ago, perhaps in response to Docusign’s acquisition of SpringCM the year before that. SpringCM had the document management capabilities that Docusign wanted, and it appeared at the time that Dropbox was worried about the competition, so they acquired HelloSign.

It was really interesting at the time to see a document management company acquiring a signing company in response to a signing company acquiring a doc management company. In the meantime, Adobe, which had signing capabilities even before acquiring EchoSign, has blown their first-mover advantage.

The technology behind document signing is straightforward, and there are free public-domain choices. The value comes from the infrastructure behind it, which includes signature-specific things like audit trails as well as document management specific things like integrations with everything from Google Docs to Slack to Salesforce.

Right now, my impression is that Docusign is gearing for larger enterprise clients while Dropbox’s HelloSign is geared towards the so-called SMB (Small-Medium Business) market. I don’t know which market as more potential, but that’s something I’d want to investigate before investing in either company.

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Usually an acronym is only defined the first time it is used in a piece. Scroll up and save some time :wink:

“…DocuSign’s Contract Lifecycle Management (CLM…”

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