EU to label gas and nuclear 'Green'

Investment Analysis Clubs Macro Economic Trends and Risks
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I wonder if they had a chance to talk to the Germans before they shut down half their remaining nuclear fleet this week? Both Finland and Sweden are well on the way to building their radioactive waste storage sites.

The Nat gas one is interesting, reminds me of the old story of a German butcher who was charged with mixing horsemeat in his ground rabbit meat. When asked by the judge what percentage was horse he replied 50/50 one horse and one rabbit.

I’m somewhat questioning why every country that has nuclear power plants feels the need to build their own storage sites? Seems to me that some countries are better suited for such things and would be quite happy to host the stuff for the right price?

Anymouse

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/money/topstories/eu-drafts-plan-to…

Reuters

EU drafts plan to label gas and nuclear investments as green

By Kate Abnett and Simon Jessop 2 hrs ago

(Reuters) -The European Union has drawn up plans to label some natural gas and nuclear energy projects as “green” investments after a year-long battle between governments over which investments are truly climate-friendly.

The European Commission is expected to propose rules in January deciding whether gas and nuclear projects will be included in the EU “sustainable finance taxonomy”.

This is a list of economic activities and the environmental criteria they must meet to be labelled as green investments. By restricting the “green” label to truly climate-friendly projects, the system aims to make those investments more attractive to private capital, and stop “greenwashing”, where companies or investors overstate their eco-friendly credentials.

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Anymouse: sorry the butcher analogy was a bit ambiguous to me–are you referring to having a mix of power stations based on gas (rabbit) and others on nuclear (horse) or something else entirely different?

John

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EU to label gas and nuclear ‘Green’

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Correction: EU to label SOME gas and nuclear ‘Green’

Probably SMR nuclear reactors will be considered ‘Green’ if they work as advertised, if they are economic, and if they are safe.

Jaak

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are you referring to having a mix of power stations based on gas (rabbit) and others on nuclear (horse) or something else entirely different?

Nope, from the linked article.

Investments in natural gas power plants would also be deemed green if they produce emissions below 270g of CO2 equivalent per kilowatt hour (kWh), replace a more polluting fossil fuel plant, receive a construction permit by Dec. 31 2030 and plan to switch to low-carbon gases by the end of 2035.

The variety of criteria reminded me of the joke. If that’s complicated … sorry about that.

Nothing in burning Nat gas to produce power is really green deemed or otherwise. It is greener than burning coal and especially lignite but still a fossil fuel and a finite resource.

The power not being produced by those nuclear power plants that Germany is shutting will have to be replaced from somewhere?

The real irony to me is that German rate payers will pay for the clean nuclear power that would have been produced even though they don’t receive the benefit of it?

Clearly the deciders are happy to waste the ratepayers money this way?

I’m still peeved that delays made during the building of the Muskrat Falls hydro dam cost every Nova Scotian (all 1 million of us) $200 each. While $200 is a paltry sum to me in principle the company should have eaten the cost.

Anymouse

https://www.halifaxexaminer.ca/environment/delays-in-muskrat…

Delays in Muskrat Falls project have cost Nova Scotia Power ratepayers $200 million
DECEMBER 29, 2021 BY JENNIFER HENDERSON

https://world-nuclear-news.org/Articles/Agreement-reached-ov…

Germany agrees compensation for nuclear phaseout

05 March 2021

The German government has reached an agreement with EOn, EnBW, RWE and Vattenfall on compensation for the forced premature closure of their nuclear power reactors. The utilities are set to receive a total of almost EUR2.5 billion (USD3.0 billion) in compensation after agreeing to drop all legal actions against the government related to the nuclear phaseout. The final regulation related to the compensation will be made into law by the end of this year.

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The power not being produced by those nuclear power plants that Germany is shutting will have to be replaced from somewhere?

The real irony to me is that German rate payers will pay for the clean nuclear power that would have been produced even though they don’t receive the benefit of it?

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The German will build more generation to make up for these nuclear power plants.

There is no irony. The German rate payers are glad to see nuclear power eliminated from their country. They voted for the governments that would rid them of nuclear power. It is call democracy.

The Germans are sorry that the French have to suffer high prices for electricity because 4 or more of their nuclear reactors developed corrosion in safety related piping and needed to be shutdown of inspections. This may cause the need for inspection of other reactors if the findings are serious. Any safety issues are a major concern for Germans who are some of the most health conscious people in the world.

The Germans are exporting electricity to France to keep the French lights and heat working.

Jaak

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Correction: EU to label SOME gas and nuclear ‘Green’
Probably SMR nuclear reactors will be considered ‘Green’ if they work as advertised, if they are economic, and if they are safe.

Do you have a source for that? This Reuters article has no mention of SMRs:

www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/eu-drafts-plan-label-gas…
“A draft of the Commission’s proposal, seen by Reuters, would label nuclear power plant investments as green if the project has a plan, funds and a site to safely dispose of radioactive waste. To be deemed green, new nuclear plants must receive construction permits before 2045.”

DB2

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Most Europeans would find neither gas nor nuclear, although perhaps inevitable as a “bridge technology”, to be especially “green”.

Rather, word is that the trigger for having them included as such in the EU Commission’s new taxonomy (which sounds a tad ivory-tower but will actually drive eligibility for subsidies as well as ratings for ESG-focused investors) was a backroom deal at head of government level between France (nuclear) and Germany (gas).

Reportedly one of the conditions for having nuclear included will be the establishment of a viable plan to deal with the nuclear waste… by the year (drumroll) 2050.

The Commission published the plan two hours prior to midnight on New Years Eve, presumably hoping it would not cause too much of a stir. They are facing quite a bit of backlash now.

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Rather, word is that the trigger for having them included as such in the EU Commission’s new taxonomy (which sounds a tad ivory-tower but will actually drive eligibility for subsidies as well as ratings for ESG-focused investors) was a backroom deal at head of government level between France (nuclear) and Germany (gas).

… by the year (drumroll) 2050.

Thanks SB, pretty much what I suspected. France holds their nose over German Nat Gas and probably lignite as well (?) and Germany looks away … or even buys excess clean French nuclear power?

With seven German federal elections between now and 2050 and the current batch probably retired like Angela and on good pensions or long buried … who knows what the rules will look like by that time?

The French reprocess nuclear waste methinks that would probably become acceptable as at least part of a plan to reduce the amount of waste needing to be stored?

Anymouse

https://world-nuclear.org/information-library/nuclear-fuel-c…

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…a backroom deal at head of government level between France (nuclear) and Germany (gas).

To be more accurate, I think it would be better to put (coal) after Germany instead of (gas).

https://energy-charts.info/charts/energy/chart.htm?l=en&…

Germany
2021 electricity generation
Total coal: 145.49 TWh
Fossil gas: 51.17
plus…
Total wind: 113.51
Total solar: 48.45
Nuclear: 65.37

The number for nuclear will be cut in half for 2022, since they just shut down half of their remaining plants.

https://news.trust.org/item/20220101101849-m9s6t/

As long as nuclear is seen as a larger problem than CO2, the atmospheric CO2 concentration is just going to keep going up and up.

https://gml.noaa.gov/ccgg/trends/mlo.html

-Pete

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To be more accurate, I think it would be better to put (coal) after Germany instead of (gas).

Reportedly the German chancellor lobbied for gas to be considered „green“. Trying to lobby for coal to be green would have been way too laughable.

Btw the Merkel government had set Germany’s coal exit for 2038, too late for the Green Party who is part of the new government.

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Correction: EU to label SOME gas and nuclear ‘Green’
Probably SMR nuclear reactors will be considered ‘Green’ if they work as advertised, if they are economic, and if they are safe.

Do you have a source for that? This Reuters article has no mention of SMRs:

DB2

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SMR is the only type of nuclear power plants that has a chance to compete with renewables and natural gas power plants. The large nuclear plants have been shown to cost too much, take too much time to construct, and are having safety and waste disposal issues.

Who wants to go for the EPR or AP1000 after so many units have mega cost & schedule overruns. UK, US, Poland, Canada and many other countries are investigating the possible use of SMRs for the future.

Jaak

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The Commission published the plan two hours prior to midnight on New Years Eve, presumably hoping it would not cause too much of a stir. They are facing quite a bit of backlash now.

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Reference link please.

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waterfell posts only 2021 coal electricity generation for Germany
2021 electricity generation
Total coal: 145.49 TWh

But the facts show that Germany burned less coal in 2021 than in 2019 or 2018 or 2017 or 2016 or 2015 or etc. before the pandemic.

2019 electricity generation
Total coal: 151.42 TWh

https://energy-charts.info/charts/energy/chart.htm?l=en&…

Jaak

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anymouse posts: Thanks SB, pretty much what I suspected. France holds their nose over German Nat Gas and probably lignite as well (?) and Germany looks away … or even buys excess clean French nuclear power?

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Wrong!

Germany is reducing hard coal and lignite coal burning as shown in the following link:

https://energy-charts.info/charts/energy/chart.htm?l=en&…

Germany will not be buying French nuclear generated power because the French are having safety inspections done on at least 4 nuclear reactors that were ordered to shutdown. Now the French are buying electricity from the Germans, Belgians, Brits and others to keep the lights and heat on for their people.

Jaak

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As long as nuclear is seen as a larger problem than CO2, the atmospheric CO2 concentration is just going to keep going up and up.

Pete,

I have come to agree with this. Don’t love it, but it is a fact.

The economic issue may come off as very abstract but the Western Europeans sans the UK are in a different part of the economic cycle were building new nuclear plants is relatively more expensive.

The US is just coming out of that supply side econ into period where building nuclear plants is relatively more affordable.

I am no expert on where the German and French plants are in need of repairs but such repairs are to a degree very costly rebuilds.

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SMR is the only type of nuclear power plants that has a chance to compete with renewables and natural gas power plants. The large nuclear plants have been shown to cost too much, take too much time to construct, and are having safety and waste disposal issues.


Pete,

What Jaak is saying matters all the more in Western Europe.
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From the original link:
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/money/topstories/eu-drafts-plan-to…

Investments in natural gas power plants would also be deemed green if they produce emissions below 270g of CO2 equivalent per kilowatt hour (kWh), replace a more polluting fossil fuel plant, receive a construction permit by Dec. 31 2030 and plan to switch to low-carbon gases by the end of 2035.

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It should be pointed out that the 270 grams of CO2 per kwh requirement is beyond the capability of existing standard technologies. Here in the US, the CO2 emission factor for natural gas is 52.91 kgCO2/MMBTU. I imagine European (or Russian) natural gas is going to be about the same in terms of its CO2 emissions.

https://www.eia.gov/environment/emissions/co2_vol_mass.php

In order to get 270 gramsCO2/kwh, the power plant will need to operate at a thermal efficiency of 67%. The highest efficiency for the new combined cycle power plants I can find is 63%. That 63% efficiency is only for a finely tuned power plant with everything working perfectly in the right conditions. The average natural gas power plant in the US operates at around a 44% efficiency.

So, in order to get to this 270 grams/kwh requirement, they will need to either raise the record from 63 to 67% efficiency, use some sort of CO2 capture and sequestration technology, or possibly mix in some pure hydrogen with the natural gas to reduce CO2 emissions. All of those things are possible, but they won’t be done easily, or cheaply.

  • Pete
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So, in order to get to this 270 grams/kwh requirement, they will need to either raise the record from 63 to 67% efficiency, use some sort of CO2 capture and sequestration technology, or possibly mix in some pure hydrogen with the natural gas to reduce CO2 emissions. All of those things are possible, but they won’t be done easily, or cheaply.

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Gas turbine manufacturers have produced machines that are already operating on hydrogen:

According to the latest McCoy Power Report, GE has more experience running gas turbines on hydrogen than any other OEM. In total, GE has 100+ gas turbines supporting power generation with hydrogen and associated fuels around the world. GE has combustion technologies that are capable of operating on a wide range of hydrogen concentrations up to ~100% (by volume).

https://www.ge.com/gas-power/future-of-energy/hydrogen-fuele…

Jaak