Except, from Denny’s own account, he was sweating, no? Even without sweat production, 10% of the body’s need might not be insignificant…but it’s still inadequate.
And I am saying that it is unlikely. Yes, metabolic water is produced by exercise, mostly from carbohydrate metabolism for the first hour and then by fat metabolism shortly thereafter. But it probably isn’t enough to compensate for heavy sweating that you indicate happens on your walks. You also mention that you “seldom have more than a couple of beers (70cc)”. Alcohol is a diuretic, in other words it stimulates urination even when you don’t need to. My guess is that most of the water you see leaving your body is coming at the expense of the cells in your body. In other words, you are likely dehydrated after your walks.
Thanks, I missed that.
And just to mention…sweating is very difficult to quantify. Obviously, if you’re wringing wet, you know you are but it’s totally possible to be bone dry on a hot day in a dry climate and especially at higher altitudes and be totally unaware of the “insensible” fluid loss…even when you’re sitting with your feet up. Like I am right now. Here’s why I make the assumption that I need fluid replacement throughout the day…even in the main part of the house where the AC is managing about 76°
Yes, fat from cells.
The Captain
And so have I!
Now that my orthopedic surgeon (who reattached my shoulder muscles) permits me to swim, I’m back to swimming. Only 3 times a week, and only a mile each time, for now, but I love it! I can’t swim properly after eating, even 2 or 3 hours after eating, so I skip breakfast on swimming days. Then I go to the pool, and admittedly, by then (11 or 11:30) my stomach is growling. But after a lap or two, no more growling. Then when I get out, I take my time, I shower, I sauna, I talk my buddies, I get dressed and finally get home at 1 or 2 pm and then have breakfast.
Staying on track is the problem for all dieters. Then it becomes demoralizing. Falling off the beam.
Cigs and alcohol were easier for me as it was all or nothing and I succeeded long term with both. Most people slip and slide. Weight for everyone is much harder. But there are those guys who give up a two liter of soda every day and it all falls into place. That becomes a more successful all or nothing for that individual.
But what if someone chose a more rational approach to exercising as a weight management tool? Even using a stairmaster, if that’s what floats their boat.
It’s entirely possible to train smart enough so as to make a 4 hour bout of exercise potentially a big Calorie burner and to be so well trained and fat adapted that a cheeseburger and fries satisfies any hunger but still leaves an energy deficit. Or choose and train for an activity that lasts for 2 hours or less, is still an energy hog and then refuel with a more well planned meal.
This is what I meant upstream when I mentioned believing the wrong thing (and acting on it) as a barrier to weight management. Examples in this thread of folk who’ve, like me, found that exercise doesn’t automatically stimulate overeating. If someone’s doing it, it must be doable.
It is totally individual. Those who succeed anew great. Those who know themselves have been doing things better for years.
In my case I know myself and I do less exercise when I want to lose weight. I do not want to build up more hunger. I go through a back and forth making it all work. To each his own.
Just remember the failure rate is very high for most people. Are we allowed to say the word “failure” and apply it to a human being these days? Okay then, the success rate is very low.
Yes find your own path anyone who is wondering.
Just pretending getting into exercising is a huge calorie burner well it is not.
Well, I don’t believe that anyone has pretended that getting into exercise is a huge Calorie burner…at least, no one with a clue. That’s what I believe constitutes a Straw Man Argument.
Notwithstanding, there are multiple reasons why creating an energy deficit with an intelligently applied exercise protocol in addition to an energy restrictive diet is a superior option to dieting alone quite apart from the Calories burned. Maintaining muscle mass is the biggie most folk are aware of…and this becomes especially important as weight drops closer to the lower BMI range. Increasing insuln sensitivity is another. Both in the short term acutely and chronically over the long haul (a potential problem for fitness instructors when class members…especially newly diagnosed T2D …lurch off the couch and decide to get into shape.
When folk who’ve been chronic failures in the weight loss game start to do things right…they tend to join the handful who’ve been doing things better for years
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So, over the years (close to a couple of decades now) that I’ve been directly involved in the fitness industry, I’ve collected a slew of resources in addition to Peter Attia’s offerings when it comes to health, longevity and inevitability weight/fat loss. Here’s one of them and not behind a paywall. This one article is just a starter and the multiple links will help a bit with navigating the site.
Unfortunately, over the years a good many have also disappeared for whatever reason.
You are making things up or unaware of people’s desperate battles to lose weight.
If you go to a gym you see it.
I was in Noom and the groups were full of people bragging about burning 450 to 650 calories per day. Just about none of them would be successful. Yes a few lost the weight but the entire idea was to learn to eat not exercise. The weight will come back in that case when you pull a muscle and get demoralized about exercising six days a week three or more hours per day. That dies eventually for overweight amateurs.
The latest thing on NPR is using the diabetes drugs. Seems both WW and Noom are now getting people into the diabetes drugs. So many fewer nutrition lessons or gloss over the lessons and pop that pill baby!
Now the reports are starting that people have problems with the pills. You think that will be demoralizing? Or is everything in your estimation never demoralizing…people are just fat like having birthday cake every day?
If believing that floats your boat, then by all means. But you would probably be wrong. From your description here is what I think is happening with your walk.
You lose a lot of water from sweating and alcohol-induced urination, only a fraction of which is replenished by metabolic water. As a result you spend much of the walk becoming increasingly dehydrated, one symptom of which is having a dry mouth. By the end of the walk your body will have less water in it than when you started but pretty close to the same amount of fat.
To put it another way, the amount of calories burned in the walk probably doesn’t come close to producing enough water to make up for the amount of sweat. It is why people are generally thirsty after sweaty exercise.
If all one wants is to lose weight then the only thing that works is to consume fewer calories than you burn. For most, the only way to do this in a sustainable way is to change the foods eaten to satiate hunger. The simple rule of thumb is to preferentially eat foods with lots of water and/or fiber. Fruits and vegetables are good examples.
But if one wants to also be healthy, then one has to do the exercise.
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Swimming is what got me into sailing. I don’t particularly like sports, I’m not good at it. In high school swimming was one of the least bad ones from my perspective. In college I found that one had to take some kind of sport to graduate so I opted for swimming.
“Coach, what do you want me to do?”
“Do 50 laps.”
“Coach, I did 50 laps, what do you want me to do?”
“Do 50 more.”
“Coach, I did 50 more, what do you want me to do?”
“Do 50 more.”
Talking to myself, “I think I saw a sailing pavilion by the river, I think I’ll give it a try.”
At the sailing pavilion,
“I would like to join the sailing team.”
“Take this broom and sweep the pavilion.”
“You want me to sweep the pavilion?”
So I swept the pavilion and that’s how a life long hobby was born.
The Captain
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Your scenario is certainly feasible and internally consistent. About the dry mouth, this is something I’ve been experiencing since the covid shots. Often I wake up with a very dry mouth which has nothing to do with exercise. Another post covid experience is having very think phlegm in the back of the throat specially after eating certain fruits.
The good news, only 3.5 kg – 7.7 pounds to go, My 30 year old leather belt has the record of my girth. Only one more notch to get to my goal.
The Captain
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You’re beating up on your Straw Man again…along with providing anecdata of exactly what I mean about believing the wrong thing and acting upon those beliefs.
You’ve cited the Noom users exercise habits before in this context of using a rational training program to facilitate weight loss, right? My response has been the same every time…in a nutshell that these folks aren’t using a rational approach. In fact, if your representation of what they claim to be doing is accurate, they’re providing you with valuable lessons on what NOT to do. You’re getting your money’s worth right there!
As you say upstream, though…to each his own. If what you’re doing is working for you and you’ve met and are maintaining your own goals well, good for you. Carry on with it. Trying too hard for “optimal” probably scuppers a lot of well laid plans. You just need to choose better arguments, though, when trying to deny the undeniable.
Chronic dehydration can be an insidious problem even before obvious thirst is noticed. It’s a particular problem with the elderly…especially in hotter, dry climates…as they’ve frequently become somewhat habituated to a mild xerostomia that’re a result of changes to saliva as we all become Chronologically Enriched. Plenty of info of a scholarly nature on Google for anyone interested.
It happened actually with my own mother and she hadn’t realised that she’d developed an even drier dry mouth until she could barely swallow drier foodstuffs. Being more conscious of sipping water more frequently…and, yes, having to pee more/deal with leakages…together with attention to electrolytes was something of an easy fix.
Congrats to you. Whatever you are doing, keep doing it.
I push this issue a bit because I believe doing long duration exercise under hot conditions without regular water breaks (as you describe) is not healthy, particularly for older adults. It seems particularly risky if one believes one doesn’t need to take external water because you are making enough on your own. The fact that you apparently drink alcohol along the way adds to the risk.
As one who runs a bit, this is an issue I keep track of. No point stressing brain cells if one can help it.
In this study, fit young men underwent a 90 min exercise under conditions of heavy sweating to induce short-term dehydration. Significant changes in brain morphology were observed consistent with insufficient water.
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My best practice is to eat only vegetables and proteins when I am at home or alone. That allows me to party when dining with friends.
But I will count my calories using MyFitnessPal phone app that has the largest food database to be found. I can point at a barcode and it will return macros and everything else.
Worth a read if only to emphasize to anyone who might be unaware of the body of work that’s been applied to studying the maintenance of fluid balance in humans (not to mention the probably more invasive work over the centuries of animal studies that have elucidated the anatomy, physiology etc to give us the insight into how structures sich as kidneys and sweat glands etc work!)
Mind you, it was a little contrived, given the gear the study subjects were wearing so isn’t in and of itself validating the imagined risks of long duration exercise or a reason not to participate …just show a bit o’ gumption. Rehydrate appropriately…with adequate electrolytes if warranted.
BT,
Exactly right.
Except the words “but if one wants to also be healthy…” the weight loss for most of them matters more than the exercise at first and for many months if need be. Some of them if not most of them and myself included can not do a lot of exercise without creating a lot of hunger.
The weight loss for most of them is a much bigger health benefit.