Homeless Solution

After three years of chaos, the Portland area is finally starting to do something to address the homelessness problem largely brought on by the rapid rise in housing prices and apartment rents. (The mentally ill wandering the streets and drug addiction problems preceded the housing costs spike.)

We’re seeing more “safe stay” camps with individual houses that look like garden sheds. Camps are fenced, have 24-hr onsite security, and daily visits from social workers. There’s also a ban on street camping within 1,000 feet of a “safe camp”. So if neighbors allow one of these things to be sited, the city promises to keep the area around them “clean.”

https://www.cityofvancouver.us/cmo/page/vancouver%E2%80%99s-…

And today I saw that they’re building a 40-bed “retirement home” with admission restricted to those who’ve “lived on the streets”. Who would have guessed that you can retire from being homeless? So far I haven’t heard anyone complain that these folks should “get a job.”

https://www.thelundreport.org/content/vancouver-housing-proj…

A new housing complex outside Vancouver, Washington, aims to help unsheltered individuals whose physical conditions also make them frequent visitors to emergency rooms.

Tenny Creek Assisted Living, a 40-unit apartment building, will offer medical treatment and nursing on the premises. Combined with its communal dining room and gleaming commercial kitchen, it bears some resemblance to a retirement home.

intercst

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So far I haven’t heard anyone complain that these folks should “get a job.”

Give it a bit of time. We will hear howls about “encouraging homelessness” by offering people a safe place to sleep, from the same sort that complains welfare encourages joblessness, “safe” injection sites encourage drug addiction, and birth control encourages people to have sex.

Steve

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help unsheltered individuals whose physical conditions also make them frequent visitors to emergency rooms.

This is taken from one of the medical TV shows (no idea if it was copied from somewhere else). Cheaper for the hospital to buy, own, and manage a nearby apt building (to house high-use ER people) in order to reduce total costs incurred by the residents who would otherwise be in the ER over and over again. Less expensive than ER costs of $1-million and up per year. I.e., capitalism reducing costs via socialism.

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Less expensive than ER costs of $1-million and up per year. I.e., capitalism reducing costs via socialism.

On the other hand is the “traditional value” of the puritanical, punishment, culture. Like the luminary in, iirc, Ohio, observing the number of people who police had administered Narcan to on more than one occasion.

The sheriff of one opioid-ravaged Ohio county is refusing to equip his deputies with Narcan,…requiring deputies to administer the remedy puts them in danger and the cost of repeatedly treating people with Narcan is “sucking the taxpayers dry.”…“There’s no law that say police officers have to carry Narcan,” he said. “Until there is, we’re not going to use it.”

City Councilman Dan Picard in nearby Middletown, Ohio touched off a firestorm of outrage when he asked his town’s legal department to look into whether they are legally required to dispatch ambulances to rescue drug addicts who repeatedly overdose.

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/americas-heroin-epidemic/o…

Steve

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steve203 posts,

Less expensive than ER costs of $1-million and up per year. I.e., capitalism reducing costs via socialism.

On the other hand is the “traditional value” of the puritanical, punishment, culture. Like the luminary in, iirc, Ohio, observing the number of people who police had administered Narcan to on more than one occasion.

The sheriff of one opioid-ravaged Ohio county is refusing to equip his deputies with Narcan,…requiring deputies to administer the remedy puts them in danger and the cost of repeatedly treating people with Narcan is “sucking the taxpayers dry.”…“There’s no law that say police officers have to carry Narcan,” he said. “Until there is, we’re not going to use it.”

City Councilman Dan Picard in nearby Middletown, Ohio touched off a firestorm of outrage when he asked his town’s legal department to look into whether they are legally required to dispatch ambulances to rescue drug addicts who repeatedly overdose.

Entirely true, but eventually the ignorance and innumeracy yields to more enlightened thinking once the specter of “raising taxes” to address the damage becomes inevitable.

Even conservatives now realize that you can’t “jail everybody” without building more prisons and raising the revenue for construction and ongoing operations.

intercst

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Sounds good.

Unfortunately, the practical experience in Port Angeles is that the homeless and drug addicts are very destructive. Serenity House closed a homeless shelter permanently when residents and their guests caused so much damage that the organization couldn’t afford to fix it. The Port Angeles council approved a 24 hour rest room downtown even though the last one was trashed and had to be shut down.

Housing people who are homeless because they can’t afford rent even though they are working probably would be OK since they might be more likely to preserve the structures. Housing drug addicts and mentally ill will cause the destruction of disgracefully overpriced garden sheds.

The mentally ill should be housed in mental institutions – which were mostly closed in the 1980s so they no longer exist. In WA State, small short-term in-patient units are being built to take the pressure off ERs. The problem is how to keep patients on their meds once they are released back onto the streets.

The drug addicts should be jailed if they commit a crime (which the vast majority do, since most live by stealing, drug dealing and prostitution). Once in jail, the opioid addicts should be given MAT (methadone or buprenorphine). The meth addicts are hopeless - there is no treatment for meth addiction and they are more dangerous to the public than opioid addicts. This is simply a mess. But they should be kept off the streets, not encouraged with free syringes and safe spaces to inject.

I’m not unsympathetic to the “homeless solution” but any structure that is not concrete and steel will be quickly destroyed.

Wendy

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But they should be kept off the streets, not encouraged with free syringes and safe spaces to inject.

“Free syringes” inhibit the spread of hepatitis and HIV that comes from sharing syringes. Safe injection sites gets that activity out of public view, and the contaminated debris is cleaned up and properly disposed of, instead of left laying on the street.

Growing up in West Michigan, I saw the punishment culture in full flower: demands that drug addicts be arrested and forced to go through withdrawal unaided. I heard howls of indignation about “criminals getting off on a technicality”, like the Police not having a search warrant, or the accused not being aware of his rights, or interrogated without legal counsel. I would not be surprised to see Gideon and Miranda overturned in the next few years, so we can revert to the “traditional values” of police beating a suspect with a rubber hose until he confesses, whether he is guilty or not…

Yes, I hear people paying lip service to “we can’t arrest our way out of the problem”, but, in the next breath, the same people demand harsher penalties for sex offenders, for instance, because punishment is popular with the mob.

Spare the Rod, Spoil the Child? The Unexpected Way Religious Beliefs Influence Parents’ Views of Discipline

Conservative Protestants, on the other hand, represent one faith tradition where physical punishment of children is sometimes recommended and encouraged. Conservative Protestants are significantly more likely than parents of other religious backgrounds to support and practice corporal punishment. This support of corporal punishment is largely based on conservative beliefs that the Bible is inerrant and should be interpreted literally.

Blows and wounds cleanse away evil, and beatings purge the inmost being. (Proverbs 20:30)

https://psychologybenefits.org/2017/04/12/spare-the-rod-spoi…

Steve

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Sounds cute. Perfect for a fictional story.

But I agree with part of what Wendy said. Instead of opening an apartment building, the hospital should open a non-profit in-patient mental health wing. Treat people with injuries as needed in the ER, then move them to the mental health ward and get them the help they really need.

As a nation, we turned our back on mental illness in the 1980s. Shut down the vast majority of treatment facilities. Those with untreated mental health issues tend to commit crimes. So jails became mental health wards. And they’re terrible at that job.

As Wendy rightly points out, medications can help many of these people. But keeping them on their meds outside of an inpatient setting is tough. And it wouldn’t shock me if some people are being medicated to keep them sedated rather than to actually treat their conditions.

Frankly, mental health is ripe for picking as an entry into socialized medicine. Insurers don’t want to pay for it, so they limit payments. Hospitals aren’t equipped for it. PCPs know it’s needed, but have few (or sometimes no) places to refer people to. No one really wants the job, yet it is desperately needed. So let’s set it up at the federal level.

Let’s run some numbers. I’m getting my tax statistics from here: https://taxfoundation.org/publications/latest-federal-income… It’s for 2019, but that will have to do.

Let’s say we wanted to add a 1% tax on the top 1% of incomes. And use that to pay for nationwide mental health services. What would that look like?

Let’s start by computing taxable income. The table at the above page doesn’t show taxable income, only AGI. But it does give total taxes paid and an average tax rate which, according to the linked definition is total tax paid divided by taxable income. So let’s reverse that. We have $612 billion in taxes paid and an average tax rate of 25.6%. That works out to $2.391 trillion in taxable income. (Just slightly less than the total AGI. Probably could have just used that instead. But naysayers would complain that is wrong, so let’s get it right.)

A 1% tax on that would raise $23.9 billion. So that’s a starting budget number. (BTW, there are about 1.48 million returns with that income, so the average income for the 1% is just over $1.6 million. Interestingly, that is remarkably similar to California’s 1% tax on income in excess of $1 million earmarked for mental health services.)

So how many people need mental health treatment? Here you go:
The key findings show that only 27 percent of the 21 million individuals in the study had a behavioral health diagnosis or received behavioral health treatment
https://stateofreform.com/featured/2020/11/study-mental-heal…

With a total population of about 335 million, that means there are around 90 million people in the US who need or are getting mental health treatment. Time for more math.

$23.9 billion raised by this tax, spent on 90 million people give a per person budget of … click, click, tap, tap, … $265 per person. That’s just a couple of 30 minute therapy sessions a year. Or a year’s supply of a modestly priced medication.

Well, that math didn’t go so well. On the other hand, the study linked above also notes:
Half of the 5.7 million individuals who received a behavioral health diagnosis received less than $68 per year in mental health treatment.
So this could still be an improvement over the status quo.

I’m also ignoring any savings by allowing insurers to drop mental health coverage from health insurance policies. (Insert standard intercst rant about those savings ending up with JCs instead of passed on to those paying for the insurance. Because, well, he’s right.)

Anyway, just trying to put some numbers to this issue.

–Peter

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Even conservatives now realize that you can’t “jail everybody” without building more prisons and raising the revenue for construction and ongoing operations.

Oh yeah? Just you wait till we find a way to teleport them to Mars like the British got rid of their riffraff by shipping them off to Australia! :wink:

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As a nation, we turned our back on mental illness in the 1980s. Shut down the vast majority of treatment facilities. Those with untreated mental health issues tend to commit crimes. So jails became mental health wards. And they’re terrible at that job.

One of my earliest memories is going to visit one of my uncles in a “mental health ward.” This was in the early 1970’s. Reading up on the now closed Taunton State Hospital it was praised for it’s architectural air and light as beneficial for the patients, but at least the part I visited several times a year sure felt like a prison to me. Dad never really got into why his brother was there, though it sounded as though he could get aggressive, but from what I got from my older siblings later, his crime was likely being bipolar. Could be that the rest of the hospital was nice, Uncle’s part was not.

I know Dad never forgave his SIL for “abandoning” her husband, but she had kids to protect. It’s brutally hard dealing with mental illness even with what we know now. I can’t imagine what she had to deal with.

IP

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Tackling homelessness and drug addiction and mental illness and chronic violence and sexual predation and cultural criminality are difficult because all require

  1. tenacity over time, deploying a well thought out steadfast policy backed by money and political defenders over at least two generations;
  2. a much higher valuation placed on being a proud member of a community rather than a lone ranger.

Where to start? Well, quality schools have similar requirements and are the essential enrry point to handling rather than merely bandaiding or obscuring homelessness and its root causes, and ought be the first prioritty

Why not start there?

Watch this video to see how utterly attainable good education is, and what it takes: a broad cultural ocmmitment over few generations to quality.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xCe2m0kiSg

Well, instead, we build more walled private security guarded communities for the upper middle class and above, keep the middle middle and working class flummoxed with hate and fear, and all while saying “keep walking on the sunny side of the street!”

At least in Mexico the callous domination and corruption of the ruling classes (which now includes the main narco families) is transparent, and so I do not feel the urge to barf as much.

david fb

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Oh yeah? Just you wait till we find a way to teleport them to Mars like the British got rid of their riffraff by shipping them off to Australia! :wink:

You missed the news? The UK has re-instituted transportation.

One-way ticket to Rwanda for some UK asylum seekers

The pilot scheme will focus on single men arriving on boats or lorries.

Those who succeed in making it to the UK “will be taken not to hotels at vast public expense”, the prime minister said, and instead would be housed in detention centres.

The number of people who can be relocated will be “unlimited”, said Mr Johnson.

Rwanda will have the “capacity to resettle tens of thousands of people in the years ahead”, including those who have arrived “illegally” since the start of the year, he said.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-61097114

Steve

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I wonder how many on this board have actually lived as a homeless individual?

I did.

I did not see homeless people trashing facilities…it IMO is just as likely “good, righteous folk”, you know those who pulled themselves up by their bootstraps, who are trashing facilities. Their motivation? Perhaps delinquency at best and spite/anger (more likely) being generated from those rotten, worthless, homeless people getting any help.

I do agree that the average homeless person has a much higher chance of being mentally challenged and/or ill equipped to deal with society on society’s terms. Many of the homeless I saw were just not in touch with their surroundings but had strong survival instincts.

Being exposed to Nature 24/7/365 is a harsh way to live. The overnight dew soaks you, even what many consider to be mild weather can be freezing when consistently exposed to it. That itself will lead to hypothermia which leads to sleeplessness and further weakens the physical system. I wonder how many ER homeless visits are from exposure and not drug addiction? Infections from broken bottles, barbed wire, broken shrub or tree limbs stumbled into because a person got rousted from sleep by police who just moved them along, by guards who did the same, etc.

Are there a portion who are drug addicted? Probably, but I would guess more crime is committed by non-homeless drug addicts than by homeless ones.

Meth addiction is no tougher than heroine or alcohol to get clean and in recovery. But it is no easier either.

Panhandling really reveals the underbelly of the “boot strap” crowd. The righteous are very cruel… unbelievably so when not constrained by their peers (which the homeless are not). First hand experience talking here.

The reality impaired homeless are homeless because they have nowhere to call home. When they are homeless, they are also off of meds. I did my best to keep my distance from them. Not because I feared physical assault, but because we didn’t live in the same world.

If society ever becomes enlightened enough, then I think the mentally challenged should be the first cohort to be addressed. I say this because alcoholics and other drug addicteds have a chance to recover without massive help, but the mentally impaired do not. I honestly believe there is no counseling cure for these folks, but their conditions might be aided by medicine and shelter in a structured, predictable environment run by caring, thoughtful, compassionate people who don’t view them with distaste and contempt.

There are probably groups of new (since my experience 3.5 decades ago) of homeless, perhaps many of whom could benefit from employer sponsored home assistance plans (say temporary or cheap housing) combined with jobs (and a free trip through a thrift store to get appropriate work clothes). This might work best if the employers get a tax break when the homeless individual is referred by a social welfare agency. There’s no need to advertise this work/housing program to the homeless as the “grapevine” is much more effective than the media (which most homeless don’t have access to).

Walk a mile in their shoes…and a different perspective may emerge. For the most part these people aren’t homeless by choice; and once homeless the way out IS the road less traveled.

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There is no simple plan to deal with homelessness, because every homeless person has a different reason for being homeless.

We need to deal with each individual and their circumstances, and we don’t have a “program” that can do that.

But providing a safe place to sleep is at least a first step.

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Obviously, this is a huge problem with no easy solution. As you note, taking care of the mentally ill needs to be job #1 to get anywhere with reducing the homeless population. If they go off their meds they can never be integrated into functional society until they start taking them again.

Are there a portion who are drug addicted?

Speaking with experience about my Large City, there were protests 2 years ago for the City to provide more beds, more housing for the homeless. More housing was funded for the homeless subsequently.

What the protestors camping out didn’t know/refused to mention is that the City already had a surplus of beds for the homeless pop.

The heads of homeless non-profits, to their credit would/did mention this if asked.

The reason there were many empty beds every night in the city is that a large minority of the homeless population refuse to not take drugs when they’re in the homeless facilities.

So, it’s not an easy issue: You can’t force people to take their meds in most cases. There is no other way for the mentally impaired to rejoin us off the streets.

The large heroin/opioid population in the city has very little interest in getting clean. [The protestors weren’t asking for more methadone clinics, tellingly].
My city has had a heroin problem since the 1960s. There are entire neighborhoods that have been, for decades, part of a heroin superhighway [we’re a major distribution hub] up and down the east coast where addicts come and live to score and be homeless, in large part.

Nobody should be forced to be homeless, but I have 100x more sympathy for the mentally ill who are screwed by the current process in large part over the willing drug addicts who force the rest of us to pay for their: housing, food clothing, medical bills, et al while they spend on their money on smack.

Going cold turkey is no fun, but unlike some drugs it won’t kill you [like alcohol, say.] You can quit anytime you want. But you have to WANT TO.

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Being exposed to Nature 24/7/365 is a harsh way to live.

“…to believe in this livin’ is just a hard way to go…” - John Prine, Angel from Montgomery

Great post.

FC

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Being exposed to Nature 24/7/365 is a harsh way to live.

“…to believe in this livin’ is just a hard way to go…” - John Prine, Angel from Montgomery

O… That’s the way that the world goes 'round
You’re up one day, the next you’re down
It’s half an inch of water and you think you’re gonna drown
That’s the way that the world goes 'round

Man, I miss John.

AW aka Happy Enchilada

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Uvjvrsxsat8

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Oh yeah? Just you wait till we find a way to teleport them to Mars like the British got rid of their riffraff by shipping them off to Australia! :wink:

You missed the news? The UK has re-instituted transportation.

One-way ticket to Rwanda for some UK asylum seekers

Sounds like a good plan to me. Hope it succeeds!

Let’s face facts, there are plenty of places for them to go (assuming their claims are true).

And yet time and again we see “asylum seekers” traveling hundreds (sometimes thousands) of extra miles to get to the places where ‘the streets are paved with gold’

WHY*?*

The US & UK are famous for their high standards of living.

That’s WHY*!*

Instead of opening an apartment building, the hospital should open a non-profit in-patient mental health wing.

This isn’t an either-or kind of choice. Not all unhoused folks are mental. Some, as the OP indicated, are simply old and/or too physically broken down or cognitively limited (not dangerous to themselves or others) to make enough money to support themselves. They’re not all drug addicts or alcoholics, although some are … kind of like other people.

“Housing first”, which includes on-site counselors and care for folks who need it, is a proven approach. It may not work for every single person, but it can and does work for many. It costs money. But, as many cities are discovering, so does not addressing the issue effectively.

https://endhomelessness.org/resource/housing-first/

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Panhandling really reveals the underbelly of the “boot strap” crowd. … First hand experience talking here.

First hand experience here too:

A week or two ago I was accosted by a guy who offered to wash my car windows for a dollar.

He wasn’t the first beggar I’ve ever met to offer to work in exchange for a donation.

BUT he was the first with tools in hand ready to make good on such an offer.

I was so impressed I gave him the only bill I had on me at the time… a fifty.

Did I waste $50.00 on a drug addict?

OR

Help a guy out?

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