Markets fight the Fed

Fed Chair Powell and other Fed regional bank presidents have reiterated (over and over, redundantly even) that they will continue to raise the Fed funds rate until inflation (their favorite PCE, not CPI) falls to 2%.

Repeat: they will continue to raise until inflation falls to their desired level. How many times do they have to repeat this? Also, they will not cut immediately but will hold their higher rate until they are confident that inflation won’t resurge, at least a couple or a few months.

Controlling inflation is more important than a possible recession. Powell is channeling Paul Volcker and he doesn’t intend to buckle. If he does he will have egg on his face. This would go into the history books.

But: THE MARKETS DON’T BELIEVE THE FED!!!

The “Fed put,” which was started by Alan Greenspan before 2000, is so ingrained that the stock and bond traders simply won’t believe that they will be hung out to dry if the Macro economy needs higher interest rates.

The stock and bond markets are both acting as if the Fed will change its mind and start cutting rates as soon as inflation begins to fall and/or if a recession begins and/or the stock market has a hissy fit. The Wall Street Journal has printed a few articles about this.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/global-stocks-markets-dow-updat…

**U.S. Stocks Fall With Focus on the Fed**
**Government-bond yields rise as Fed officials suggest the central bank could maintain rapid pace of interest-rate rises**
**By Caitlin McCabe and Akane Otani, The Wall Street Journal, Aug. 19, 2022**

**U.S. stocks fell Friday, ending the week lower and snapping a four-week stretch of gains for the S&P 500, as investors second-guessed how aggressively the Federal Reserve will need to move to tame inflation.**

**The market endured a stretch of choppy moves as traders reassessed their bets on what the Fed might do at its September meeting. For weeks, many investors had been feeling confident that inflation had possibly peaked and that the central bank would soften the magnitude of its future interest-rate increases.**

**But comments in recent days from central bank officials, combined with the release of the minutes from the Fed’s July meeting, put the possibility of continued aggressive rate increases back in focus. On Thursday, Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis President James Bullard said he would lean toward a 0.75-percentage-point increase in September....** [end quote]

The bond market is even more sensitive to interest rate moves than the stock market, of course.

Will wishing make it so? Will the Fed follow the markets the way rain follows the plow?

Wendy

12 Likes

“Repeat: they will continue to raise until inflation falls to their desired level. How many times do they have to repeat this? Also, they will not cut immediately but will hold their higher rate until they are confident that inflation won’t resurge, at least a couple or a few months.”

The Fed is aiming for a neutral rate, and they’re aiming at a moving target. At present there is a 6% gap between the inflation rate and the Fed rate. The quest is, how fast is inflation falling? Looking at the pump prices I would say fast but not fast enough. Yet. I expect inflation to be around 6% by years end and falling. The Fed will raise to between 3-3.5 by years end. Why undershoot? Because inflation is coming down. By next summer inflation will be around 3% an a Fed rate of around 3.5 will look neutral.

The market sees the future and is pricing accordingly. If you’re waiting for a return to the 6% vig from the treasury on your retirement fund, you’re going to be left waiting.

7 Likes

But: THE MARKETS DON’T BELIEVE THE FED!!!

Worse yet, those profits based on inflation have soared faster than the inflation. Money falling through to the bottom line. It is going to come crashing down.

https://nypost.com/2022/08/19/half-of-companies-to-lay-peopl…

while not the best source assuming the survey is legit…snippet

The PwC survey — which polled 700 executives and board members across the US — found 52% of companies have already enacted hiring freezes, four out of 10 have rescinded jobs or axed signing bonuses for new hires, and roughly half have started laying people off or are preparing to cut headcount.

How many times do they have to repeat this?

As many times as it takes for the market to believe it. Greenspan said “irrational exuberance” in 1996, the market didn’t take him seriously until almost 2000.

Also, they will not cut immediately but will hold their higher rate until they are confident that inflation won’t resurge, at least a couple or a few months.

Well of course. They would look like (and be) idiots if they raised it 75 basis points one meeting and lowered it the next.

The problem with inflation is that it’s somewhat sticky. Even if the worst cost drivers recede (pandemic, supply chain, abundant money supply, fuel (war), labor shortage), it will linger for a while as the market (the economy, not the stock market) struggles to catch up.

All those people still working on 3 year contracts (unions, teachers, others) are seriously behind; they will be asking for more, perhaps a lot more. Manufacturers also lock into long term supply contracts and they are getting squeezed, and they will need “more.” (Some use forward price hedging, but that’s a pretty sophisticated tool for the average plant owner.) As those employment, supply, logistics contracts expire you can be sure there will be further price bumps, and that means a long tail of increases, diminishing slowly over time as equilibrium is (or worst case, is not) reestablished. Even for those without contracts they will be trying to “keep up”, so (and especially with the apparent labor shortage) expect some upwards movement among that group as well.

Even if the monthly inflation increases become more shallow, I expect the Fed to continue pushing forward on rates, although I suspect their increases will be smaller and smaller, as a signal that “we’re almost there” in their attempt to achieve a soft-landing. (Less than 50% chance, in my view.) To be clear, I’m expecting at least one, probably two, outside possibility of three 75 basis moves going forward. But if you put a gun to my head I would guess one at 75, the next at 50, and another at 50 going forward, depending on what the monthly stats say.

Clearing the inflation problem will take until the 2024 election, I suspect, but the spin doctors will be playing it for all its worth until then.

The Wall Street Journal has printed a few articles about this.

The Wall Street Journal is a hive of hard moneyists. They are not to be paid attention to at the moment on this issue.

12 Likes

They may print hard money articles, but everyone on Wall Street knows that soft money pumps up the assets. The markets have a hissy fit with even the slightest hint of tightening.

Wendy

1 Like

Even if the monthly inflation increases become more shallow, I expect the Fed to continue pushing forward on rates, although I suspect their increases will be smaller and smaller, as a signal that “we’re almost there” in their attempt to achieve a soft-landing. (Less than 50% chance, in my view.) To be clear, I’m expecting at least one, probably two, outside possibility of three 75 basis moves going forward. But if you put a gun to my head I would guess one at 75, the next at 50, and another at 50 going forward, depending on what the monthly stats say.

This.

Powell and his fellow governors have said over and over that they want a neutral Fed Funds rate. A neutral rate is roughly inflation plus 2. With a recent inflation figure around 9%, that puts a neutral rate at about 11%. The current target rate is 2.5%. Even if inflation fell to 4% yesterday, we still need to more than double the fed rate to get to neutral.

Some have argued that the next rate increase will be “only” 0.5%. With the huge gap between the current rate and anything approaching neutral, I agree that another 0.75% is still in order.

Powell wants to get inflation under control. And if it takes a recession to do that, we’ll have a recession. I’ve suggested before that with the bulk of the current supply/demand imbalance falling on the supply side, we NEED a bit of stagnation at best - and perhaps a recession - to keep demand down and in line with available supply so that we can avoid a bad bout of inflation. The balancing act this time around is not in avoiding a recession. It is avoiding a really bad recession. A mild recession over the next two or so years will be a win for the fed.

–Peter

1 Like

The markets have a hissy fit with even the slightest hint of tightening.

You keep saying this. The Fed has done more than “the slightest hint”, it has run two successive rounds tightening, and the market is non-plussed. Indeed, in June it instituted one of the biggest increases in decades and the market has gone up. It ran another in July and the market is up.

I’m sorry, but your theory sounds as addled as the WSJ editorial page. It’s NOT supported by fact.

I dare say the market wants the Fed to increase rates, because it sees this as the way to tame inflation. I’m amazed you don’t see this.

19 Likes

I dare say the market wants the Fed to increase rates, because it sees this as the way to tame inflation. I’m amazed you don’t see this.

Goof that result is in the aftermath of more rate hikes to come. The first problem the markets face is a higher rate reduces profits in tandem with making FCF less valuable. The consumer base is in decline for now.

For you to get to your results could take well into 2023.

The recent rise in the markets was just a bounce. The trading is not so much guys like us looking for entry. It is just the computers whirling for the most part. Bigger money playing around as usual.

The rally easily could be over now. We do not know yet but this does not have to be pretty.

https://schrts.co/iInDmxWF

How many times do they have to repeat this?

As many times as it takes for the market to believe it.

Ah yes, we fight tooth and nail here and die on our shields rather than admit a single word of what we’ve posted is incorrect.

Well, I’ll admit it, I’ve been wrong before and probably will be again.

To quote a fellow famous for correctly stating things;-)

“It’s tough to make predictions, especially about the future.”
? Yogi Berra

2 Likes

Today is a good day to add to this thread on inflation and the Fed. Below is something I wrote for myself, to check my thinking by writing it down, and will post here for comments. I am usually not a macro investor, but the emergence of inflation after 40+ years, has awakened in me a strong macro view. I wrote it down for myself also, so I have a record and don’t revise my recollection in the future, especially in the case that I am wrong. I am doing something like trading on this trend, selling puts and calls on shares I want to own, or already own, on the belief the market will be volatile and sideways for several quarters. Here is my write up, modified from my version as I can’t easily post graphs here.

I believe the high inflation seen in the United States, which first became visible in March of 2021, has at least three factors that will make it more persistent and difficult for the U.S. Fed to bring under control. The graph below shows some of the most important components of inflation. The three components of inflation I believe are important are housing, labor, and monetary policy. Monetary policy looms over everything else regarding inflation, but it merits separate discussion here.

First, housing. The cost of shelter in the U.S. has inflated upward from 2% in mid-2012 to around 3.5% in the four years before the Pandemic. After bottoming below 2% in February of 2021, the rate of housing inflation has shot up in an almost straight line to over 6% in August of 2022. Housing has been underbuilt in America since the GFC. The U.S. is now short by several million housing units. there is a hole in housing starts that was dug in response overbuilding in the early-to-mid 2000s. We are only as of 2021 recovering to the average rate of new housing starts of the previous 4+ decades. Given that it is difficult to build new housing in many places that need it, combined with the construction labor constraints that resulted from the GFC and the aging U.S. population, I think a shortage of housing is here to stay. But, with mortgage rates rising and different options to reduce demand for housing (staying put, living with family) and increase supply (high prices prompting old people to downsize, the surge in new construction that has been underway, reductions in new construction restrictions,) I think housing will flatten out and lead it to be a reduced, but persistent, source of inflation.

The second important component in my view of inflation is labor. I think there are three powerful factors affecting the U.S. workforce in effect currently. First is demographics. The U.S. working age population is declining as the Baby Boomers enter their golden years and are replaced by the “baby bust” of Generation X. The graph above left shows the reduction of more than 2% in the percent of the population that is working age since the late 2000s. Second is immigration. There is an oversupply of debate about the 45th President, but almost everyone agrees he wanted less immigration, and his administration’s immigration policy reflected that. This has led to a shortage of an estimated 1.8 million working age migrants, compared to the trend between 2010 and 2019, according to the Economist magazine. Third, the Pandemic pushed millions of workers out of service jobs, many of which were low-wage and unpleasant. Many of these people found a new career, or at least a new way to make money, when they were forced to do so. Many of them found it easier/better/possible. Now that they know how to do something different, they aren’t going back. These three factors have, in my view, been major contributors to the record-low unemployment rate. The aging trend can’t be stopped directly. It can only be backfilled with immigrants. Turning immigration around is going to be politically difficult.

Finally, the money supply. I think the Fed was too loose for too long. Now that so much money is out in the system and everyone is used to it, the pain is going to be real, large, and sustained to vacuum it back out. The simple math, not too simple I hope, is interest rates will need to get and stay above the level of inflation, long enough to slow the economy down. to tame inflation in the early 1980s, interest rates were above 15% for two years . Now inflation is well above the current Fed funds rate of 2.5% to 2.75%. I think the Market was wagering, optimistically, that inflation would do most of the work here; that it would come down and get under 4% or even lower without having to raise interest rates above that level. It is a bold statement for me to say I’m right and the Market is wrong, about the most central number in the economy. Why might I be right? I think two reasons. One, human optimism and not wanting to feel pain. Two, it has been more than forty years since we had high inflation. The majority of people in the economy and making the biggest decisions that affect the economy have little to no direct experience with inflation.

For these reasons, I believe we will continue to have days like today, when Markets were surprised by a high inflation reading and sold off. I think the market will go sideways for several months, maybe even a year or longer, oscillating between unfounded optimism that the Fed has done enough and the periodic hard slap of inflation, telling everyone there is more pain ahead. I think a soft landing is too small a needle to thread.

-SH

9 Likes