Monday vs. Asana

On Asana’s website, they have a page dedicated to what differentiates them from Monday.com. They play the VALUE CARD over and over. There really aren’t any references to product superiority.

“Our plans are clear and easy to understand, while costs are transparent and predictable. And whatever plan you choose, we don’t charge for data storage.”

There are several implications that Monday.com’s costs are harder to quantify, like there are more services a la carte, maybe some are usage based?

“Add integrations with tools like Slack, Google, and Microsoft Office without worrying about hidden charges or unpredictable costs.”

“Pricing that scales with your team - Get unlimited storage, activity history, and invite as many guests as you need. We charge only a FIXED PRICE per team member.”

More value…

Asana offers…

  • a longer free trial
  • free file storage
  • FREE activity log
  • FREE time tracking
  • Free integrations

The site shows side-by-side ratings and Monday.com receives the same number of stars (4.5 stars) as Asana, but Asana touts the NUMBER of reviews. They have 5x as many reviews as Monday.

https://asana.com/compare/asana-vs-monday-com

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Hmmm, I am “surprised” that an Asana vs Monday comparison on the Asana website would show that Asana was better value – trying to keep smiling today :wink:

A bit of anecdotal / empirical data – my wife and I jetted to NYC for a long weekend. On 2 of our subway rides (one on the 11th and the other on the 12th) the car we were in had one side entirely filled with Monday.com advertisements. The 5 vertical ads between the doors and all the horizontal ads along the top of the car were different Monday.com ads. They were certainly eye-catching.

So this is where a small part of their “Sales & Marketing” spend is going… I’d be curious to know if there is data tracking this $100K (or more) expense to new sales and revenue. They did this previously in 2019.

For those interested, here are a couple links showing some of the ads from the 2019 campaign:
https://www.molloykennedy.com/monday
https://medium.com/@ntenenini/subway-ad-5-monday-com-123eb0e…

Long both ASAN and MNDY – and after today’s high-growth stock pounding, my ASAN position is still up 285% while my MNDY position is up only 6%.

BornGiantsFan
– who is still bummed by the Giants losing to the Dodgers in the playoffs, but pleased with the Braves beating the Astros

5 Likes

and after today’s high-growth stock pounding… my MNDY position is up only 6%.

Well first of all, it only IPO’ed a few months ago!

And secondly, its IPO lockup was just released a week or so ago, which knocked the stock price down even before this big sell off in all the software stocks.

Give it a little time! You are invested in the company, not the stock! And the company is doing great. (Actually better than great.) :grinning:

Best,

Saul

109 Likes

FallingWallenda:
On Asana’s website, they have a page dedicated to what differentiates them from Monday.com. They play the VALUE CARD over and over. There really aren’t any references to product superiority.

I’m not sure I agree. In addition to the pricing pieces you mention, they also have a “more control for everyone in your organization”, “built for everyone, not just spreadsheet users”, “bring all your favorite tools with you”.

I do think this page is a defensive move on Asana’s part. I couldn’t find it on their homepage, the only way I found it was Googling “Asana vs Monday”, so I expect it’s directly focused on search result advertising.

Asana has been around much longer than Monday. And I feel like they started with a more “corporate” marketing push whereas Monday started with a more small/mid sized business marketing push. As a result, I feel like Asana sometimes has to fight a reputation of being more expensive, higher end, and more complicated.

I think this page is just about combating that perception, attacking in places where Monday is the perceived leader. Saying “we’re not expensive”, “we’re easy to use”, “we’re popular and cool”.

Remember that this is marketing, and targeted marketing at that, it’s as much about brand as it is about point features.

The site shows side-by-side ratings and Monday.com receives the same number of stars (4.5 stars) as Asana, but Asana touts the NUMBER of reviews. They have 5x as many reviews as Monday.

Again, some of this is defensive. “We’re just as loved”. But some of this is also implicitly talking about Asana’s first mover advantage. We’re bigger, we’re more popular, we have more tools and integrations.

My view

I use Asana at work. It’s liked here. We used Asana for a while at my previous job as well. But Monday clearly has momentum as well. The products and product strategies seem VERY similar. (Compared to similar products, like Trello, various dead Google products, Basecamp, etc. Which all handle similar “collaborate task management” functionality but ended up with much different products.) The growth curves are slightly different between Asana and Monday, given that Asana is older, but both seem legitimately hypergrowth.

Frankly, I don’t really know the answer of which will “win”. Maybe both will. But after reading some of the posts on this board it became clear that collaborative task management had reached some kind of tipping point. The concept has been around a long time, but with two marketshare hungry companies and a pandemic it seems clear that this is now becoming a new software category that will be widely adopted.

Personally, I felt like my indecision between the two companies was causing me to miss out. So I bought both a few months ago. As a combined entity they are one of my highest confidence investments.

  • High growth
  • SaaS
  • Pandemic and “new workplace” tailwinds
  • Network effects
  • High operating margin, even compared to many SaaS companies.

I also think that both are potentially acquisition targets. That has pluses and minuses, as I think there is long term growth here and an acquisition would short circuit that. But I’m not opposed to a quick buck either. This does feel a lot like Slack to me: a new software category that someone like Microsoft or Salesforce will want to control. The reality is that a tool like Asana or Monday becomes a central part of its user’s routines and the big players won’t want to give up that kind of user mindshare to the (relatively) little players like Asana and Monday.

I figure I can benefit from buying both. And if one falters, or gets bought, I can potentially shift gears to the other.

And that’s essentially my advice here: don’t miss out on the entire category debating which is better. The reality is that the products are extremely similar. And the marketing strategies, while different a a few years ago, seem to be converging as well.

–CH

*An interesting side note here I think is Basecamp. Although Basecamp isn’t feature-by-feature competitive with Monday/Asana, it’s been around much longer and is also in the collaborative task management space. I think that Basecamp clearly could have owned this market. But, although Basecamp has been very successful, the Basecamp owners wanted to run the product they wanted to. They never went after the enterprises, preferring the small business market. Being very opinionated about how they run their company. Preferring organic growth.

It seems like I’m anti-Basecamp, but I’m not. I actually admire the Basecamp owners and have used and liked that product as well. They just chose a very different path. And I feel like Basecamp is an “alternate universe” Monday.

18 Likes

I will admit to being unfamiliar with Asana recently, but spent some time reviewing the company over the past few days. For those also unfamiliar, Asana is an SaaS company that focuses on improving workplace productivity. Here is a brief snapshot of some recent earnings figures:

Q3 - '21
Revenue: $58m, 55% yoy growth
Paying Customers: 89k
DBNR: 115%
Guidance: $63m, 45% yoy growth

Q4 - '21
Revenue: $68m, 57% yoy, 17% qoq (beat guidance by 8%)
Paying Customers: 93k
DBNR: 115%
Guidance: $70m, 48% yoy growth

Q1 - '22
Revenue: $76m, 61% yoy, 11% qoq (beat guidance by 11%)
Paying Customers: 100k
DBNR: 115%
Guidance: $83m, 60% yoy growth

Q2 - '22
Revenue: $89m, 72% yoy, 17% qoq (beat guidance by 7%)
Paying Customers: 107k
DBNR: 118%
Guidance: $94m, 60% yoy growth

Looking ahead to Q3, while applying an 8% guidance beat, has things shaping up as follows:

Q3 - '22 (Brandon’s napkin math estimates)
Revenue: $101m, 74% yoy, 14% qoq

If things play out as estimated that would have revenue growth accelerating four quarters in a row, exactly what we are looking for here.

Additionally, they are founder led.

Additionally, they have a <$20b market cap. Sure thats not an exact reason to invest in a company, but its certainly better than having the above figures and being at $50b - $75b.

Ok, they are losing money each quarter. Thats the same with DataDog, Crowdstrike, Monday.com, etc.

Ok, they have a high PS ratio of 52. Zscaler is 67, DataDog is 60, and many of our favorite companies in the high 40’s.

Ok, they are already up 245% this year. Ummm, isn’t that the kind of stock performance we want?

Yet, amongst the board members that post monthly portfolio updates, including the most popular members, I couldn’t find more than one or two people that owned the company. I went back almost two months on this board (my goodness so many Upstart posts) and couldn’t find Asana discussed before this thread. I’m not looking for a handout, but I am curious why many have looked past this company as an investment?

Brandon

19 Likes

Yet, amongst the board members that post monthly portfolio updates, including the most popular members, I couldn’t find more than one or two people that owned the company. I went back almost two months on this board (my goodness so many Upstart posts) and couldn’t find Asana discussed before this thread. I’m not looking for a handout, but I am curious why many have looked past this company as an investment?

ASAN has definitely been discussed quite a bit on this board. Here’s one from last year that popped up for me on Google: https://discussion.fool.com/asana-accelerated-to-61-year-over-ye… . And it’s definitely been discussed in comparison with Monday before as well: I know that there were posts on both back when I was trying decide between them.

Why has ASAN not been discussed more? I think you’ve hit on it. Several of the thought leaders here chose Monday instead. ASAN definitely still comes up from time to time, but it just doesn’t have the critical mass that some other stocks do with regards to discussion. I’d love to hear a summary of why they chose MNDY over ASAN from the leaders, but I’d guess that it’s just that Monday is higher growth.

As I said, I have both MNDY and ASAN, but I don’t do monthly updates and am only an occasional poster.

–CH

4 Likes

I am curious why many have looked past this company as an investment?

I can’t speak for anyone else, but my main reason for passing on Asana is outlined below. In my opinion, the best-of-the-best firms we discuss combine that strong or even accelerating top line you mention with rapidly improving profitability and/or cash flows. Asana just hasn’t shown that well enough for my liking. Though cash flows are getting better, the loss margins appear to be stuck including next quarter’s guide. I’ve owned companies like SMAR and TWLO in the past that followed a similar trend. Both had nice stretches before the market eventually tired of waiting for profit/cash flow improvement and rerated them down. I currently view ASAN as carrying more of that risk than some other available names (like say MNDY, which is showing more leverage at even higher growth rates). That doesn’t mean I’m right, of course, but that’s my interpretation.

ASAN’s recent stock price shows the market strongly disagrees with my assessment, but that’s OK. It especially seems to be enamored with the confidence being shown by a founder who has steadily been buying back shares, which is certainly a bullish sign. Despite all that, I’m unlikely to gain more conviction here until I see more operational leverage start to kick in.

YMMV.


non-GAAP Operating Income							% Revenues					
	Q1	Q2	Q3	Q4	YR			Q1	Q2	Q3	Q4	YR
2019							2019					
2020	-$13.86	-$13.96	-$21.46	-$20.06	-$69.33		2020	-49.5%	-42.2%	-56.3%	-46.1%	-48.6%
2021	-$23.92	-$27.16	-$37.28	-$34.84	-$123.18	2021	-50.1%	-52.2%	-63.3%	-51.0%	-54.3%
2022	-$33.30	-$38.58	-$47.00				2022	-43.4%	-43.1%	-46.5%	0.0%	0.0%
2023							2023					
												
non-GAAP Net Income							% Revenues					
	Q1	Q2	Q3	Q4	YR			Q1	Q2	Q3	Q4	YR
2019							2019					
2020	-$13.44	-$13.67	-$21.18	-$19.93	-$68.21		2020	-48.1%	-41.3%	-55.6%	-45.8%	-47.8%
2021	-$23.69	-$26.28	-$38.31	-$35.01	-$123.39	2021	-49.6%	-50.5%	-65.0%	-51.2%	-54.4%
2022	-$33.80	-$39.76					2022	-44.1%	-44.4%	0.0%	0.0%	0.0%
2023							2023					
												
Operating Cash Flow							% Revenues					
	Q1	Q2	Q3	Q4	YR			Q1	Q2	Q3	Q4	YR
2019							2019					
2020	-$6.95	-$6.15	-$10.94	-$16.10	-$40.14		2020	-24.9%	-18.6%	-28.7%	-37.0%	-28.1%
2021	-$18.15	-$22.12	-$34.44	-$18.17	-$92.87		2021	-38.1%	-42.5%	-58.5%	-26.6%	-40.9%
2022	-$7.44	-$8.52					2022	-9.7%	-9.5%	0.0%	0.0%	0.0%
2023							2023					
												
non-GAAP Free Cash Flow							% Revenues					
	Q1	Q2	Q3	Q4	YR			Q1	Q2	Q3	Q4	YR
2019							2019					
2020	-$7.31	-$6.53	-$11.60	-$19.16	-$44.61		2020	-26.1%	-19.7%	-30.5%	-44.1%	-31.3%
2021	-$17.06	-$21.91	-$19.50	-$17.48	-$75.96		2021	-35.8%	-42.1%	-33.1%	-25.6%	-33.5%
2022	-$7.66	-$9.27					2022	-10.0%	-10.4%	0.0%	0.0%	0.0%
2023							2023					
				

33 Likes

Should have put this at the end of the last post. Here are the same metrics for MNDY (Q4 is a guide I’d expect to be beaten).


non-GAAP Operating Income							% Revenues					
	Q1	Q2	Q3	Q4	YR			Q1	Q2	Q3	Q4	YR
2018							2018					
2019					-$70.68		2019		0.0%	0.0%	0.0%	-90.5%
2020	-$16.78	-$14.89	-$30.85		-$86.19		2020	-52.5%	-40.8%	-72.4%	0.0%	-53.5%
2021	-$23.31	-$9.91	-$9.45	-$22.00	-$64.00		2021	**-39.5%**	**-14.0%**	**-11.4%**	-22.8%	-21.3%
2022							2022	0.0%				
												
non-GAAP Net Income							% Revenues					
	Q1	Q2	Q3	Q4	YR			Q1	Q2	Q3	Q4	YR
2018							2018					
2019							2019		0.0%	0.0%	0.0%	0.0%
2020	-$16.64	-$15.10	-$31.28				2020	-52.1%	-41.4%	-73.4%	0.0%	0.0%
2021	-$24.42	-$11.33	-$11.37				2021	**-41.4%**	**-16.0%**	**-13.7%**	0.0%	0.0%
2022							2022	0.0%				
												
Operating Cash Flow							% Revenues					
	Q1	Q2	Q3	Q4	YR			Q1	Q2	Q3	Q4	YR
2018							2018					
2019					-$36.65		2019		0.0%	0.0%	0.0%	-46.9%
2020	-$5.13	-$13.85	-$7.24		-$37.18		2020	-16.1%	-38.0%	-17.0%	0.0%	-23.1%
2021	-$0.60	-$0.36	$3.79				2021	**-1.0%**	**-0.5%**	**4.6%**	0.0%	0.0%
2022							2022	0.0%				
												
Adjusted Free Cash Flow							% Revenues					
	Q1	Q2	Q3	Q4	YR			Q1	Q2	Q3	Q4	YR
2018							2018					
2019					-$38.42		2019		0.0%	0.0%	0.0%	-49.2%
2020	-$5.96	-$15.03	-$7.83	-$11.90	-$40.69		2020	-18.7%	-41.2%	-18.4%	-23.7%	-25.3%
2021	-$1.60	-$1.48	$2.87				2021	**-2.7%**	**-2.1%**	**3.5%**	0.0%	0.0%
2022							2022	0.0%				

See how the loss margins are narrowing so quickly? See how cash burn has not only narrowed but even flashed positive last quarter?

While MNDY still has to prove it can sustain this leverage, that trend looks much more like the traditional board winners than ASAN’s does. AGAIN, THAT DOESN’T MEAN I AM RIGHT. However, that why I’ve chosen to own MNDY and pass on ASAN for now.

31 Likes

Yet, amongst the board members that post monthly portfolio updates, including the most popular members, I couldn’t find more than one or two people that owned the company… I am curious why many have looked past this company (Asana) as an investment?

Hi Brandon, very simple answer. Because we are all, or most of us, invested in Monday because it beats Asana on EVERY metric!!! Which also explains why Asana is sounding defensive.

For Example: Monday last quarter had

Revenue up 95%

Operating Cash Flow Positive

Free Cash Flow positive

Rapid movement toward profitability (Adj Op Margin at -11%, improved from -72% the year before).

Growth of Enterprise Customers (over $50k, which is the same metric Asana uses), was up 231%!!! That’s not a misprint. They went from 185 customers to 613!!! And it wasn’t a fluke either: a quarter ago they were up 226%, and the quarter before that up 219%.

Gross Margin was 90.2%

Etc, etc

And it’s not because of the law of large numbers. While Asana is slightly larger, they are approximately the same size.

Best,

Saul

72 Likes

I’d love to hear a summary of why they chose MNDY over ASAN from the leaders, but I’d guess that it’s just that Monday is higher growth.

I think this post from WSM007 from a few months ago laid it out nicely and is likely the #1 reason. The financials for Monday look better. They spend less on S&M for their growth and thus there’s better operating leverage.

From this post: https://discussion.fool.com/i-think-that-mndy-is-the-better-one-…

I quote WSM007 here:

Adj Operating margin
ASAN: -63% -51% -43% -43%
MNDY: -91% -53% -40% -14%

Adj FCF margin
ASAN: -33% -26% -10% -10%
MNDY: -18% -24% -3% -2%

So there is a clear operating improvement visible at Monday as the company scales, whereas this is just not happening at Asana.

19 Likes

Ok so there’s a an interesting dissection of the two companies in a head to head comparison article on SA. It comes to the same conclusion many have on this board and endorses the investment thesis in Monday. It appears to be up to date with the latest results and also touches on the product side.

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4472314-monday-vs-asana

Ant

7 Likes

But why are we comparing ASAN just to MNDY? Yes, MNDY has better metrics than ASAN, but MNDY also has better metrics than CRWD, ZI, DDOG, etc. Yet, many on here own those other companies, as well.

If the retort is “yes, but MNDY and ASAN compete”, then my answer would be, “so do CRWD and ZS”.

People hold CRWD and ZS (and some hold S as well). I don’t think it has to be either/or.

I don’t think crowd and ZS compete. If my understanding is correct, they are two solutions for different problems.

BUT, I think your point is a good one. We should always own the best stocks with highest conviction, regardless of what they produce.

Gordon

5 Likes