Could you explain what the roadblocks are?
Andy
National Highway Transportation Safety Administration (NHTSA). They donāt trust Elon, and are the final arbiters of what gets approved for the road.
intercst
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Interesting so they might approve others but not Elon because they have a bias? I canāt wait to see that fight.
Andy
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Somebody needs to explain to Elon that FSD is impossible and will never succeed.
ralph
5B. B! In 4 days. LOLOL
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You understand thatās worthless, right?
āSupervisingā a glitchy FSD is like āsupervisingā a student driver. Itās going to be easier and a lot less stressful to just drive the vehicle myself.
intercst
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I donāt know, I think it would be good if I wanted a beer rather than trying to steer with my knee. Thatās got to be worth something.
Andy
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Why? It is a simple cost/benefit evaluation. If Musk is the only one available who could possibly increase the value of my stock holdings 10-fold in less than 10 years, why wouldnāt I want him to get paid whatever it takes to get it done? Similarly, if I believe he is the only one capable of revolutionizing transportation enough to significantly mitigate the impact of climate change, why wouldnāt I want him to get paid whatever it takes to get it done?
albaby has argued that he would have done the same for much less. Would he? Musk is mercurial, immature, and on the autistic spectrum. In short, he is unpredictable by normal standards. He was already a very rich man in 2018. Would a couple of billion more over 10 years been enough to motivate him to do what many felt was impossible? I wonder. He wanted the challenge of a performance-based contract for huge stakes and that is what he mostly got. And despite the critics (mostly folks who missed the Tesla upsideā¦sour grapes?) we Tesla stockholders benefitted enormously.
I suspect today there are a lot of entities who would be willing to give Musk a blank check to come work for them. The Saudis, the UAE, China, India would love to have Musk build businesses for them. Tesla should do whatever it takes to keep him happy and motivated.
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Wrong.
The Captain
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Wired magazine says Tesla Chinese deal does not include FSD approval to launch in China.
Elon Musk Canāt Solve Teslaās China Crisis With His Desperate Asia Visit | WIRED
{{ āChinese EVs are simply evolving at a far faster pace than Tesla,ā agrees Shanghai-based automotive journalist and WIRED contributor Mark Andrews, who tested the driver assistance tech available on the roads in China. The US-listed trio of Xpeng, Nio, and Li Auto offer better-than-Tesla ādriving assistance featuresā that rely heavily on lidar sensors, a technology that Musk previously dismissed, but which Tesla is now said to be testing. }}
intercst
Remember, most the assets that made him a very rich man in 2018 (like today) were his Tesla shares. So he had a lot of motivation to make sure Tesla was successful even apart from his formal CEO compensation.
And has been pointed out upthread, I think you donāt appreciate just how insanely high āa couple of billionā in compensation for a CEO is. No CEO in the history of capitalism has ever been paid that much - even over ten years.
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I suspect there arenāt a lot of entities willing to give Musk a blank check because, at least to date, no one has.
Kind of like Stephen Hawkins reasoning for knowing that no one will ever develop a Time Machine that can go back in time. If they had, they would have already visited him.
Anyway, itās probably much cheaper just to steal the technology.
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Ego? His presumption is he is worth going back in time to visitā¦
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How is he not worth $100B? Why not $1 trillion?
Do you have an upper limit?
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He could be if the price of the stock gets that high.
Andy
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Letās not deal in hypos. What is the most you think he should be paid?
I think $56 billion is too much. Do you have a number that is too much?
As a shareholder, I think I could be persuaded to approve $ 2 billion. Anything over $10 billion is definately too much. What is your number?
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Since they or he already set goals for his compensation, and he hit the goals, he should be paid the amount that was agreed on at the time the goals and compensation package was set. Since the compensation package was approved by the majority of the shareholders give him the money. Here is the package in a nutshell.
** Under Muskās pay plan, he received a chunk of stock options each time Teslaās market value rose by $50 billion. Ultimately, he would have the chance to buy nearly 304 million shares for $23.34 each. Tesla has met each of the performance hurdles since the package was awarded. Its stock is trading at roughly $191 compared with $21 at the start of 2018.**
So letās say Tesla did not go up a cent since this compensation package was approved. He never would have received any compensation. Big risk, big reward.
Andy
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You are not answering the question. What is the max you would be willing to pay him? Do you have a max?
I donāt care if Tesla goes to $1000 from here. That wonāt make him worth $56 billion to me. It isnāt like he is personally responsible for all that growth.
Donāt equivocate. If you donāt have a number, that is fine. Just say so. I donāt need three paragraphs of a non-answer.
Itās not that simple. In 2018, Musk didnāt ask for $56B guaranteed. If he had, he wouldnāt have gotten it.
Instead, Musk said donāt pay me anything unless I dramatically increase the value of the company and your investment. Give me 1% of the outstanding shares every time I raise the value of the company by $50B. Who would have thought that he would raise the value of Tesla over 10-fold, well beyond that of Toyota or VW? Should he be punished for that success?
Still seems like a pretty good deal to me. What was the likelihood that Tesla was going to surpass the value of Toyota back in 2018?
As for the upper limit, thatās why you have a board and a shareholder vote. Musk had to make the case. As I recall, over 70% approved of the Muskās compensation plan. If he fails he doesnāt get paid. If he gets paid, we shareholders all made a fair amount of money.
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I am not asking anything about the past deal. I am asking you what is the max you would be willing to pay him. Today. Do you have a max?
Itās not that complicated. Either you think there is a limit to the worth one person can provide, or you donāt.
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I would be happy to give him the same deal but raise the benchmarks. He would get 1% of outstanding shares for every $500B increase in market cap.