Plastics Tax ??

Industry Discussions Renewable Energy
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Most plastics recycling seems to require subsidies. They are unlikely to be profitable businesses.

Would you support a plastics tax to subsidize the cost of processing recycled plastic?

The ideal would probably be a value added tax on new plastic that collected a few pennies at each stage of processing all the way to the consumer.

  1. Recycled plastic could be exempted making use more competitive
  2. Easy to recycle plastic could pay a lower rate than difficult to recycle plastic.
  3. Fees could be applied to plastic imports based on their plastic content.

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It depends on how it was structured. Right now, my HOA dues pay for a waste management company to pick up trash twice and recycling once per week. So in effect, I am already paying a recycling fee or tax.

My city and county does not provide such services, so a recycling tax from them would not be appropriate given that I get nothing for it. Now if local government did provide a recycling service and did not charge a fee already, then a tax might make more sense. But if not, then I would question how the revenue collected from such a tax would actually go towards recycling programs.

Another approach might be to add a recycling tax to recyclable products on top of local sales tax. This tax could be considered a recycling or waste tax, split between supporting recycling efforts funded by the local government (or operating subsidies offered to private companies licensed to operate in said municipality) and trash collection and landfill companies.

A well organized government might even use a stick and carrot approach, which could include a consumption tax that could be offset by a recycling credit, where if you subscribe to a government or privately operated recycling service, you would get a tax credit that would return back some of point-of-sale tax. This would not only collect funds to support recycling and trash management efforts but also incentivize recycling behavior.

Fuskie
Who notes this doesn’t have to be limited to recycling but could also cover paper, cardboard and glass…

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I had in mind taxing the plastic products when manufactured.

I dont see any benefit to taxing recycling. We should tax new to encourage use of recycled plastics.

The problem still is that processing recycled plastic does not produce valuable enough products to be profitable. So not sustainable unless subsidized. So recycled plastic continues to go to landfill.

Technology exists to convert to useful products but not at profitable rates.

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Look to the State of Maine which has a deposit fee for both glass and plastic bottles to encourage recycling. Maine and Massachusett’s both have banned plastic shopping bags in most communities and can charge for the use of non-reusable shopping bags. Both of the efforts are to help keep the environment clean and to extend the life of landfills.

OTFoolish

5

Yes, “tipping fees” is another way.

Twenty years ago there was concern about running out of landfill space near big cities like New York. That resulted in the trash barges shipped to Alabama which refused to accept them.

Also Harrisburg PA invested in a large incinerator and ended up declaring bankruptcy over the costs involved.

And train loads of trash went through New Jersey on their way to Alabama.

The trash concerns seem to have moderated. Now its plastics we are concerned about.

The alternative is some think recycling is not worth the trouble. Better to put it in the trash and bury it. Saves collection redundancy and sorting costs.

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I had in mind taxing the plastic products when manufactured.

I agree with this.
I’d structure it so that single use plastics have a much higher tax.
Especially during COVID, I have seen lots of food take out packaging that use excessive amounts of plastic, when some paper product would have been just as good.
It is sad when the favorite target of bad food (McDonalds, etc) is the winner on least plastic used in a meal.

Mike

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Industry lobbyists will fight hard against a manufacturing tax.

Fuskie
Who notes there’s also the question of at what stage of manufacturing the tax is applied…

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Would you support a plastics tax to subsidize the cost of processing recycled plastic?

As someone who has become increasingly concerned about the amount of plastic particles dumped into our air, water, land, and food chain, yes, I would support such a tax.

But even recycling plastic only delays its entry into the environment, it doesn’t stop it from getting there eventually. It can generally only be recycled one or two times.

Better still would be a reduction of usage, which also comes with a cost. For the last few months I’ve been reducing my purchases of things that come in plastic containers, like juices, detergent, k-cups, etc. It ups the cost quite a bit and reduces choices and convenience, but I’ve been doing it (and paying for it). There are still so many things that I buy that come with plastic, it takes a lot of effort to find alternatives. And it’s such a habit that I don’t even think about it a lot of the time until after I get it home.

Plastic has certainly provided a number of benefits to society over the years because of the ability to inexpensively make materials with a wide range of flexibility, transparency, colors, firmness, etc. But I also believe we have hit the point where the amount of plastic in our air, water and food supplies is having harmful effects that will only get worse due to increased use and its durability.

Good book: Plastic, a Toxic Love Story by Susan Freinkel

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“Can only be recycled one or two times”

That refer to thermo plastics that tend to degrade when reheated. Especially single use packaging.

Technology exists to break down plastics to raw materials. That allows production of clean new plastics. Eastman Chemicals is investing in processes for PET polyester. This looks feasible. Shipping costs could be a concern.

Exxon reportedly has a process to convert plastics to fuels at a refinery. Might work if the economics are right.

Cleaning pop bottles or milk bottles for recycling seems to work best. Progress is being made.

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“Manufacturing objections”

Yes, they will object, but likely will come around when the alternative is likely to be production limits.

If carbon fuels are to be banned, plastics is probably the future of the oil industry. They might be limited to easy to recycle plastics or pay hefty fees for nasty ones.

Value added tax would tax plastic production at each stage of the process. That gives each stage incentives to seek alternatives.

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I had in mind taxing the plastic products when manufactured…
…We should tax new to encourage use of recycled plastics.

Doesn’t that statement imply it is cheaper to make new plastic from raw materials, than to spend all of the effort (and fossil fuels) to gather, sort, and transport used plastic for recycle?

I can understand recycling aluminum. Making aluminum metal from bauxite requires a large amount of energy. I can probably also be convinced it is cost effective to recycle steel soup cans and vegetable cans.

But recycling plastic, because of the externalities of ocean pollution and the like, needs some cost justification. I seriously doubt any such cost justification is ever made, when state legislatures (like mine) outlaw plastic grocery bags, etc.

What’s the latest consumer price index inflation reading? My local gas station’s cheapest grade of fuel is $6.34 per gallon. Causing even more price inflation for consumer goods is not welcome right now. Let’s be honest, the consumer ALWAYS ends up paying for these things.

  • Pete
12

Yes, and plastics manufacturing is capital intensive for exactly that reason. Billions are invested to build highly automated plants that may have only a few operaters plus people to deal with shipping and receiving. Maybe 30 or so on site. Very low labor costs.

Recycling requires much more labor. And then you worry about the contamination problems.

Ways to deal with recycled platics that are difficult are known. If you want to keep them out of landfills and the oceans taxes to encourage use of recycled plastics and processing to useful materials seems to be required.

Or stop recycling and bury or burn them.

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Look to the State of Maine which has a deposit fee for both glass and plastic bottles to encourage recycling.

=========================================================

CA charges a deposit fee for glass and bottles. However, there are no redemption sites to be found for partial return of deposit. But CA does have plenty of recycle facilities and bins.

Jaak

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Well, a plastics tax would be one way of getting to something I’ve thought about for a long time but never solved: a packaging tax.

It’s not unusual for me to buy a product which is enclosed in a plastic bag, which is put inside a box so it can have some flashy graphics, and the box is shrink wrapped, and then the store puts it in a plastic bag for me to carry home. That’s FOUR wrappings! Once upon a tine we went to the grocery store and picked some grapes off a stem and took them home.

I have to say, one of the criticisms of certain taxes is that they are used to discourage behavior: alcohol and cigarettes notably, but there are others. I’m in favor of finding a way to discourage the over-use of packaging and plastics, and a tax (structured as some have suggested in this thread) seems a good way to do it.

(To go straight at over-packaging you have to figure out “what is necessary” and then come up with a taxation scheme based on weight? Size? Material? And should cardboard backing with blister pack - virtually unrecyclable because of mixed materials - be allowed or taxed highly or what? It has always seemed too daunting to figure out a reasonable set of guidelines that wouldn’t grow a massive bureaucracy to enforce it. Plastics tax? Pretty easy. Not to get passed, of course, but to administer.)

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I agree, Hoofygoofy. We can do better in many ways. Over packaging is one of them.

Taxing excesses maybe is one way to encourage improvement. Of course details of the law could go on for 100 pages or more.

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Sales tax penalty comes to mind as one way. And maybe easier to administer as many cash registers allow use of several different tax rates.

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I’m on a lowkey hunt for opportunities to invest in a Hemp processor. My son (Mechanical Eng with an interest in manufacturing and quality engineering) worked a short time for a family owned hemp processing company in Montana (IND Hemp) until service related health issues put him on his back.
Son is a true believer in the value of hemp – CBD probably saved his life in keeping him off opiod pain meds.

I’ve continued to follow that company as they report online from trade shows. Interesting to see them continue to invest in operations and expand from seeds and oils into decortification of fiber. They are growing sales in burgeoning markets for that raw material. Everything from animal bedding to construction materials to plastics. I haven’t identified an actionable/investable public company yet.

IMHO a greater concern than CO2 is topsoil loss and dead soil from decades of industrial *mining — err… monocropping of things like soybeans and corn.

No-till, no spray Hemp is touted as being regenerative for the soil.

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New eco-friendly plastics and polymers are being made from plants and the best plant that plastic is being made from is Hemp. Plastic from hemp can be made into pretty much anything that plastic from oil can be made from. Hemp based plastic is also biodegradable. So when it is put into a landfill, it will decompose much faster than oil based plastics, possibly with in 5 years, as opposed to 1,000 years for oil based plastics.

Hemp_Car_PartsThere are many different types of hemp plastic; from standard plastics reinforced with hemp fibers, to a 100% hemp plastic made entirely from the hemp plant. The most common type of hemp plastics are those plastics which infuse hemp fibers. The benefit of infusing hemp fibers lies in that less plastic is used (less oil, less pollution) and a more durable, biodegradable product is created.

RTWT at:

https://nationalhempassociation.org/hemp-plastics/

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No-till, no-spray Hemp is touted as being regenerative for the soil.

How does that work? It would be a mono-culture and would still deplete the soil of minerals over time although more slowly (presumably) than corn. Also, does hemp fix nitrogen as soybeans do?

Would hemp displace food crops such as wheat or corn needed to feed the world (and your gas tank)?

DB2

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How does that work? It would be a mono-culture…

No till (regardless of the crop) doesn’t disrupt and destroy soil bacterial and fungal communities. As does avoiding use of bacteriacides like Roundup.

A lot is said about hemp in terms of remediating contaminated soil (which is pretty much everywhere we have been doing industrial farm_mining in dead soil).

Hemp is used in rotation with other crops, as a cover crop and rotational grazing. It is a big source of biomass that can be used to build topsoil.

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