If You Bought A Tesla One Year Ago It Has Lost As Much As $40,000 In Value (jalopnik.com)
I’m a buyer of the Tesla Model Y at $35,000 and below.
intercst
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Well, at least you won’t lose $40,000 in depreciation. 
In 2012, we purchased a Honda Civic for $18,100 (about $24,300 in 2023 adjusting for inflation). The car was totaled this summer and the insurance company reimbursed us $12,800. One of the reasons I like Hondas.
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If it’s under $30,000, you can get a $4,000 Gov’t rebate on a used EV.
intercst
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It’s $25,000 and under, and there are assorted other requirements including things like it has to be a purchase from a licensed dealer, has to be first sale as a used car, and no EV tax credit claimed in previous 3 years. And similar to the new EV tax credit, there are AGI limits.
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Several months ago I read an article about online licensed dealers that would process the paper work for a used EV sale between private parties so that they could get the $4,000 tax credit. The private parties would negotiate the sale on their own, set the price, and then submit all the required paperwork to the online dealer for vetting. The price for this service was $95 (plus title and registration fees.)
I wonder if the new IRS rules make such a transaction impossible? Presumably lobbying efforts by brick and mortar car dealers would want to shut this workaround down.
intercst
Let’s see. Citizens collectively contributed $7,500 when a new EV was sold, $4,000 when it was resold after 6 mo, another $4,000 when it was sold again in another 6 mo., another $4,000 …
That would run afoul of the “has to be first sale as a used car, and no EV tax credit claimed in previous 3 years” rule, but nice try. {{ LOL }}
intercst
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Close enough. I wonder how long it will take for 2 or 3 year old Model Ys to fall below the $25,000 threshold?
intercst
As soon as the installed hardware (sensors, etc) no longer meets the requirements for real FSD, and can not be readily replaced/upgraded.
I am reminded of this comment:
“Buying a car today is an investment into the future. I think the most profound thing is that if you buy a Tesla today, I believe you are buying an appreciating asset – not a depreciating asset.”
…
“The cars currently being produced, with the hardware currently being produced, are capable of full self-driving.”
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No car on the road today, or being produced today, meets the requirements for real FSD.
(Turns out that even the vaunted Cruise, with $100k+ of extra sensors added to their vehicles, required remote humans to assist when necessary.)
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I believe that FSD simply cannot happen in a sufficiently safe and economically sane manner on public streets where
cats & dogs &
zebras & mountain lions & bears etc
children (not only as vulnerable darlings but as insane unpredictable HELLIONS!
drunks/addicts driving scooters cars trucks moving vans
stupid/normal/emotional humans driving cars etc
drunks/addicts lying in gutters and against centerline concrete thingies
abandoned BIG wind blown sheets and shytes imitating god knows what
abandoned sofas and other inertial blocks
etc etc etc
do wonderfully inherently unpredictable baffling stuff.
We need to rethink urban transportation, but in saying that I know even the very intelligent members of METAR are mostly unable to conceive of such a thing. Public streets and places are of the essence of what life in urban areas is, but we have allowed them to be idiotically usurped for poorly thought through transportation.
SEPARATE public streets from transit ways. Make the investments.
david fb
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So you believe either that artificial general intelligence will never happen, or that people cannot drive in a “sufficiently safe and economically sane manner”?
Seems to me that AGI is obviously sufficient for FSD. And given that vehicle sensors are much better and numerous than human, and AI will never be distracted or angry or sleepy, or drunk, or bored, probably something far inferior to AGI will be far better than human drivers.
But, regardless “simply cannot happen” seems way extreme when people in the field are no longer even arguing about whether AGI will happen, only when it will happen.
-IGU-
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Tell me about snow, again?
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One of the dumbest things ever said by a brilliant man.
Every machine - and a car is a machine - is a depreciating asset. Parts will wear out. Parts will rust and decay. The whole machine will become obsolete. At some point, every machine will become economically unrepairable, and therefore, scrap.
Yes, there are a few items that seem to be exceptions (sticking to cars, you can mention certain Ferrari models or historically significant cars), but I’d argue those aren’t really being used as originally intended.
–Peter
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It’s primarily marketing talk. And like most marketing talk, it’s partially BS. So far it’s working, still growing by 40-50% a year.
So “marketing talk” is newspeak for “blatant lies”?
I suppose it really is. I can find plenty more examples.
I just don’t understand why marketers feel the need to repeatedly lie about their product or service. They’re just setting up unrealistic expectations for their customers. That might get the sale today, but it guarantees someone else will get the sale tomorrow. That isn’t exactly smart long-term thinking.
–Peter
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Maybe to you and to me. But to the marketer it is often wishful thinking. And to Musk, it’s true belief, at the time, he really thought it was true. Basically he has a very high level of wishful thinking.
And we loop back around to my initial statement - one of the dumbest things ever said by a really smart guy.
But let me press further. It’s not wishful thinking. Its lies. Pure, unadulterated lies. And for these lies, companies shower marketers - which I claim are just professional liars - with lots and lots and lots of dollars.
Who are usually the highest paid people in a company? Marketers. Who are the CEOs? Marketers. Who are the presidents of companies and divisions? Marketers.
Why do we reward liars so handsomely? Oh. I remember. The ones generally authorizing those big paychecks are also marketers.
There no easier sale than one to another salesman.
–Peter