Ukrainians smash 50km past frontline

Jeff,

https://www.reuters.com/markets/us/white-house-revises-fisca….

Reuters but the one available paragraph which I can not highlight and copy tells the entire story.

We are in the demand side part of the economic cycle. Your fears are only kept alive by the piss poor crap we just went through with supply side econ.

2 Likes

US taxpayers have reportedly paid an average of $8,000 each and over $2 trillion total for the Iraq war alone

You forgot to mention @$1000 per person for the outrageous student loan forgiveness by executive fiat.

If we’re going to talk about bad government policy through subsidies, let’s put it ALL out on the table.

Speaking for myself, helping a democratic country on the ramparts of the West defend itself against a brutal invasion from a sociopathic megalomaniac dictator - WITHOUT putting our soldiers on the front line or trying to install democracy in a place with thousands of years of despotic history - is a much better spend than an obvious and unauthorized attempt to buy some votes in the midterms.

12 Likes

You forgot to mention @$1000 per person for the outrageous student loan forgiveness by executive fiat.

That was officially passed into law by the US Congress giving the president the power to relieve student debt.

Saying other wise is politics.

1 Like

Reuters but the one available paragraph which I can not highlight and copy tells the entire story.

This one?

White House cuts FY 2022 budget deficit forecast as revenues rise
www.reuters.com/markets/us/white-house-revises-fiscal-2022-d…
The White House on Tuesday revised down its projected fiscal 2022 deficit to $1.032 trillion, a $383 billion reduction from its budget forecast in March, reflecting stronger-than-expected revenues offset by new spending and technical re-estimates of healthcare and other outlays.

The White House’s mid-session budget review includes the impact of legislation passed since President Joe Biden’s administration proposed its fiscal 2023 budget in March, including the Consolidated Appropriations Act and a supplemental spending bill to help Ukraine fight the Russian invasion.

The new forecasts, completed on June 9, do not include legislation passed since then, including a $52 billion semiconductor and research subsidy act and a $430 billion package of tax increases and healthcare and clean energy investments. The latter law is expected to reduce deficits further.

DB2

That was officially passed into law by the US Congress giving the president the power to relieve student debt.

Link?

DB2

1 Like

Link?

DB2

That has been provided in the past. You read most things here.

It is interesting. I did a google search a bit sloppy at first in how I worded it. There was a lot of lying going on by some people. I hope DB2 you are not reading blatant lies on the internet again. Those lies make out that the forgiveness was a power grab unauthorized by Congress. I hate how people show up here obvious reading the last 40 years of lies clouding the supply side economic fiascos.

Here is the truth on Congress’ act that allows the forgiveness of the student loan debt. We are only allowed to discuss acts of congress here. The supply side guys need to stop the political nonsense. Supply side econ is not actually economics. It is a ruinous joke.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/2034…

3 Likes

DB2,

My apologies it is not the law yet. My mistake. I am not a politician.

This is an interest blurb with more behind a paywall.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/09/biden-stud…

The public loves the idea of forgiving the loans. It is a legal mess but be careful challenging this. The public has had it with the nonsense.

but ultimately got ground down by Stalin who was willing to kill tens of millions of his own soldiers in order to grind down the enemy with superior numbers and brute force.

There is a little twist you missed…

Back then America was arming Stalin…

The Captain

That was officially passed into law by the US Congress giving the president the power to relieve student debt.

Link?

That has been provided in the past. You read most things here.

I do and also remember providing you that link. It shows it was a bill introduced 18 months ago. It never made it out of committee.

DB2

4 Likes

“ Germany won every battle for the better part of two years in WW 2 but ultimately got ground down by Stalin who was willing to kill tens of millions of his own soldiers in order to grind down the enemy with superior numbers and brute force.”

Certainly the Russian willingness to engage in a war of attrition helped slow the Nazi advance, but it’s not true that Germany won every east front battle for two years or that a meat grinder approach was all the soviets had going for them.

The Nazis were unstoppable for six months until losing the battles of Moscow and Leningrad six months into the invasion. They swept across the southern steppes the next year until bogging down in Stalingrad. They were then soundly defeated and ultimately destroyed when the Soviet counter offensive encircled and destroyed the entire sixth army. The introduction of the T36, combined arms tactics, and the strategic brilliance of Zhukov ended the nazis in November of 1942. They never recovered from that loss and were forced to engage in a long strategic withdrawal for two years after that. The soviets deserve credit for modernizing their military and tactics on the fly while absorbing the brute force of the nazi war machine at a cost of tens of millions slaughtered by nazis.

Much like the soviets, the Ukrainians have absorbed the invaders blows and are now engaging in the counter punch. The danger for Russia right now is the encirclement and loss of an army in Izyium and/or Kherson. The loss of an army of 25,000 would be catastrophic. Does anyone think that Putin could then embark on a massive call up to belatedly bring the superior numbers of Russia down on the Ukraine. At that point the war would be lost politically.

3 Likes

Another important difference is that Germany fought a 2 front war, the Russians to the east and the Allies to the west.

This is part of the anti-Soviet mythology of the war. When Germany launched operation Barbarossa the U.S. was not even in the war yet. When the soviets halted the nazis at the gates of Moscow the Americans were just recovering from Pearl Harbor. When the soviets destroyed the sixth army, the Americans had barely established a toehold in North Africa and were being mauled by an insignificant German force in Tunisia. By the time the US finally set foot in Sicily the soviets had pushed the broken German army back to the Ukraine and were well on their way to liberating all of the Soviet Union.

It wouldn’t be until June 1944 that a real second front was opened up in France and by then the war in Europe had been won by the Soviets. But for the breakout at Normandy Europe would be communist today.

Check out this timeline of WW2 which typifies the erasure of the soviets from a military history of the war.

https://wwiifoundation.org/timeline-of-wwii/

3 Likes

Germany won every battle for the better part of two years in WW 2 but ultimately got ground down by Stalin who was willing to kill tens of millions of his own soldiers in order to grind down the enemy with superior numbers and brute force.

Certainly the Russian willingness to engage in a war of attrition helped slow the Nazi advance, but it’s not true that Germany won every east front battle for two years…

However, from September 1939 until December 1941 the Germans did quite well. Then came El Alamein and Moscow…

DB2

WW II has nothing to do with this war.

The cold war has a lot to do with this situation. Russia is not power sharing internally and the petty dictator is setting up buffer states.

The war is going into a new phase. Russia is cutting off some of its own external funding through oil and NG. The cartel will be cutting those revenues further. Russia/Putin will need to print to pay for arms and men to fight. The Russian public is going to quake in the Russian internal hyper inflation of 2023.

Putin will be put aside or killed.

There are reasons on all levels to see to Ukraine success in defeating Putin and Russia. The defeat for Russia will be internal. Russia’s military will be partially stranded in Ukraine fighting as Russia falls internally.

Doubts in US economic power are fine or okay. Doubts in Russia’s economy are the issue though.

1 Like

It wouldn’t be until June 1944 that a real second front was opened up in France and by then the war in Europe had been won by the Soviets.

PhoolishPhilip,

Respectfully, I disagree.

I believe it was the intent of the Allies to fight a two front war.

In 1942 British planes began saturation bombing. Later, American bombers used strategic bombing, targeting key political and industrial centers.

The Allies invaded North Africa in August 1942.

The U.S was producing millions of tons of weapons. However, in 1942-43 over 3,500 merchant ships headed for England were sunk by U- boats. By mid-1943, Allied forces were sinking U-boats faster than Germany could replace them.

The Allies invaded Sicily in July 1943. As an aside, I highly recommend Facing the Mountain by Daniel Brown, the story of the amazing Japanese-Americans fighting the Germans in Italy. The Germans called them The Little Iron Men.

Heck, even the French kept Germans busy eating vichyssoise.*

All these and much, much more took lots of German resources and attention away from the Russia front, and I think created a second front.

That doesn’t take anything away from Russia for their effort, with a strong assist from the famous Russian winter. After all, a two front war needs two fronts.

AW

  • just a joke, my French friends.
1 Like

I believe it was the intent of the Allies to fight a two front war.

The way I heard the story is that Stalin was asking for the second front while Churchill was after the ‘soft underbelly,’ and Marshall was for invading Europe ASAP.

The “soft underbelly” is a reference to what Winston Churchill described Italy as during WW2, when the Allies were choosing from where to invade Nazi-occupied Europe in 1943. What he was clearly seeking was the Achilles Heel; a kink in the armour of the Axis Powers, where they would have weaker defences. The success of this strategy in WW2 meant that Italy was disabled and Germany weakened by the time the Allies invaded France in 1944. The rest is history.

https://www.embraercommercialaviation.com/emsoft-underbelly/…

Were “Soft Underbelly” and “Fortress Europe” Churchill Phrases?

“Soft underbelly” (of Europe, the Axis Powers, or the Mediterranean) was a famous Churchill expression, conveying his idea of attacking Germany through Italy, before the invasion of Normandy.

https://winstonchurchill.hillsdale.edu/soft-underbelly-fortr…

The Captain

1 Like

Check out this timeline of WW2 which typifies the erasure of the soviets from a military history of the war.

https://wwiifoundation.org/timeline-of-wwii/

WoW*!* A post that backs up its statements with links!

How refreshing.

For what it’s worth, the evening news reported the Russians say they aren’t being pushed back, they are “redeploying”. That is what they said when they were pushed away from Kiev.

Putin may end up unhorsed. That is what happened to the Argentine and Greek juntas when they decided to wag the dog.

Last time I was eastbound on I-94, the billboard at the Eastern Orthodox church in Ann Arbor, was not advertising it’s annual Russian Festival, like it usually does this time of year.

Steve

It’s not that I’m a pacifist, but I would still like to know what we were supposed to have accomplished during the Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq and Syrian adventures (not to mention places like Mogadishu, Beirut, Grenada et al).

Of all the US military-industrial complex interventions in the past half century or so, the Ukraine support is perhaps the most worthwhile of them all and worthy of our continued support, unlike many of the above named ventures/misadventures.

Pete

14 Likes

that argument is under cut by the "free health care and higher education " claim. Because last time I heard, neither health care workers or higher education worker were peppered to work for no pay.

Government services are certainly not “free” ,just paid for by different folks than in the past. Or in many cased ,paid for by debt that eventually will take hyper inflation to wipe out.

BTW i do not think our State sponsored K-12 system ranks well compared to other first world countries. Whereas our higher education,( at least partly paid for by users)is very good.

In my state community college tuition is close to “free” ,paid for by profits from Lotto ticket buyers. Who are not forced to buy the tickets. Other states could do the same but prefer to spend Lotto profits elsewhere.