Upstart - excerpts that struck me from the CC

These are three paraphrased and shortened excerpts from the Upstart Conf Call which were full of information. First about using their AI to help their own sales and marketing, second, about their optimism for the future, and finally a lot of explanation about the auto loan business and where they are going with it.

Saul

Using AI to help their own marketing - …And third, we upgraded the AI models that underpin our own marketing program. That means for every dollar we spent on marketing, we brought incrementally more consumers to the platform into our bank partners. AI has almost unlimited potential in spend targeting and lifecycle marketing. Tying AI to our customer acquisition efforts is a relatively new area of investment for us, and we expect it will be a significant source of growth in the future.

The types of AI model upgrades described here have allowed us to grow loan volumes by a factor of 20 in the last four years, while reducing acquisition costs and generating real profits.

Our optimism for the future comes from two facts. First, we continue to have a lengthy backlog of projects that will improve our funnel throughput and lead to more growth in the future. And second, we don’t see competitors on the same AI centric journey that Upstart is on.

Auto lending is our next big opportunity. The auto lending industry is about six times the size of personal lending. And we believe it has at least as much mispricing and inefficiency, with millions of consumers paying far more than they should to finance a vehicle through a process that is displeasing to all. Our early exploration in this market has confirmed our hypothesis that there’s a wide-open opportunity for us and our bank partners to deliver a superior product to the market, meaning more accurate pricing, instant approvals, and elimination of friction. I’m happy to report that we’re making very fast progress in this new and exciting category.

Since January, we’ve expanded our auto refinance product from a single state to 33 states, representing more than two thirds of the US population, based on various rules and regulations that impact the process of refinancing a car loan, and we’re building the best possible process for each state. At the same time, we’re actively encouraging the states that have yet to adopt modern conveniences such as digital signatures, and electronic liens and titling that make it easier for consumers to access the best possible loan. This is one area where the COVID pandemic has helpfully pushed states toward adopting these remote friendly technologies sooner.

We’re also working to eliminate friction in the borrowing process with the goal of delivering an auto refi product with the same quality experience and instant gratification that has made us the leading personal lending platform. Only it’s happening much faster this time. Given the complexities of auto lending, it’s no small effort to build a refi product that is as simple and as accessible as an unsecured loan. But we’re well on our way to doing that. To date, we’ve activated only a couple of marketing channels to reach enough consumers to test and iterate on our auto refinance product. In fact, you can’t yet find an auto loan offer on Upstart.com. That will all change in the coming months as we begin to more proactively market and cross sell our auto refinance product.

I’m also happy to report that we closed our acquisition of Prodigy, a leader in automotive commerce software. Prodigy is like Shopify for car dealerships helping to create the modern multi-channel car buying experience that dealerships need and consumers rightfully expect in 2021. In addition to modernizing the car buying experience, Prodigy will allow us to bring Upstart’s AI enabled auto loans to dealerships across the country, where the vast majority of loans are transacted. The small but mighty Prodigy team increased our dealership footprint by 45% in the first quarter. Even at this early stage, almost $800 million in vehicles were sold through Prodigy in Q1 2021.

It’s a multi-step process. The first thing that needs to happen, and where we’re focused right now, is in getting the Prodigy Software adopted by the dealers themselves. And as that footprint expands, then within that transaction volume we have the opportunity to offer our loans. Our loans still need to compete with the rest of the marketplace, obviously. At the end of the day, you need to have the best prices and the highest approval rates in order to win. And that scenario, I think we’re relatively confident in. So to us strategically, what’s important is the expansion of the footprint of the commercial software that Prodigy is developing. From that will flow opportunity for loan volume, but that would be almost sort of a second step if you will. To realize this potential we’re significantly increasing investment in Prodigy’s technology and go-to-market teams.

The Prodigy Software, as it exists today, is sold on a sort of subscription basis for a few $1,000 to a dealership to modernize their auto selling experience. We haven’t changed that model to date. In the future the Upstart loans will appear in there and there’ll become an option to finance a vehicle for consumers. Not likely the only option, but an option would be Upstart powered loans. And certainly, the money can flow in different directions depending on the nature of the borrower and such, but in any case, we are extremely optimistic that it will be a source of what amounts to very low acquisition costs for loans for us, if not even negative acquisition costs, which is just an incredible opportunity. And in this particular very large market opportunity, the auto lending market, it’s an incredible opportunity for us.

During the quarter, we became a certified digital retail provider for Subaru retailers. As I said last quarter, we believe Prodigy will enable Upstart to tap into one of the world’s largest buy now pay later market opportunities.

92 Likes

Saul,
I like this company, and not too crazy big in market cap yet as it is newer.

Not a market timing question, but rather what could be rationale behind essentially (2) good ERs in a row and price whipsawing all the way up and back down where it started, when it seems to be the most reasonably-priced (on a P/S ratio basis) of your stocks?

Some thoughts?

  1. The contribution margin / gross margin equivalent. Much lower than most of your port stocks at sub-50%. I know that sometimes seemed an issue with TWLO, so does it bother you much here?

  2. Loan business. Rates have been low so it stands to reason they could/should rise. Does rising inflation or rising rates pose much of an issue here? I doubt it does long-term.

  3. Their Q2 2020 drop. I don’t quite get what happened here. When covid hit, rates were low. Seems like a lot of talk was in house much home financing was being done. So why was UPST loan business so poor in that Q?

  4. Stock lockup expiration in June? Too often this seems like a nothing-burger, but saw a couple folks tout it as a reason for selling pressure.

I guess I am only largely seeing positives with UPST at the moment, so trying to understand what anyone else is viewing as “things to watch out for” or potential negatives that could impact the stock thesis here?

thanks,
Doom

8 Likes

Hi Doom,

Their Q2 2020 drop. I don’t quite get what happened here.

Have we forgotten 2020 already? :grinning: Covid hit the US with two weeks to go in March. We are talking about April, May, and June, when the country was in absolute panic mode. Who was going for a personal unsecured loan then? And who in their right mind would have given them one?

The contribution margin / gross margin equivalent. Much lower than most of your port stocks at sub-50%. …does it bother you much here?

With guidance for yearly revenue growth of 158%, which they will raise two more times and then beat the third time, I can live with it. They will probably triple last years revenue (up 200%). After all, they essentially say that sequential growth for EACH of the next three quarters will be 28% or more. It was 40% this last quarter.

And their contribution margin seems to contain other expenses than normal cost of product, maybe some S&M expense, and some G&A expense too. I don’t entirely understand it, but I don’t need to with that kind of growth and already adjusted profitable. After all, they made 22 cents this last quarter and they only made 23 cents all last year.

And the people running it were all in senior-ish positions at Google. These aren’t scam people who just came out of the woodwork.

I’m taking advantage of this gift to build my position larger.

Best,

Saul

36 Likes

Have we forgotten 2020 already? :grinning: Covid hit the US with two weeks to go in March. We are talking about April, May, and June, when the country was in absolute panic mode. Who was going for a personal unsecured loan then? And who in their right mind would have given them one?


Ha. Fair enough.
I actually refinanced during that period, but in fairness my rate was locked in from Jan 2020, I think. That is probably what is confusing me, but you are right that personal loans were probably iffy then. Although I think Peloton largely uses Affirm to finance their bikes, and those obviously were selling a lot at that time, too. Either way, a moot point now.

Appreciate your thoughts on the contribution margin.
I have a position in UPST, and while anything can go lower of course, seems like a nonsensical 2-day drop after an ER result like that.

thx,
Doom

1 Like

Here is the link to the Q1 Earnings Presentation deck: https://ir.upstart.com/static-files/ac83e54b-34ba-4f83-bdbb-…

Some Highlights:

Page 4: 96% of revenue – fees from banks or servicing with no credit exposure

Page 6: Expanded auto refinance from 1 to 33 states (>? of US pop)

Page 10: Key Operating Metrics which shows the trailing nine quarters.

The Conversion Rate* has gone from 11% in Q1 2019, to 14% in Q1 2020, to 22% in Q1 2021. It has DOUBLED in two years. There is other good data on this slide and the Conversion Rate was the most impactful for me. They are 100% more efficient in the percentage of loans they close from only two years ago and this metric continues to improve over time.

*Conversion Rate equals number of loans transacted in a period divided by the number of rate inquiries received

Page 12: We define Contribution Profit as our revenue from fees, net, less certain costs that we consider to be variable and closely correlated to our fee revenue.

Page 18: Reconciliation of non-GAAP financial measures This is the explanation of how they get from GAAP to Contribution Profit and Margin.

Page 21: Key Operating Metrics and Non-GAAP Financial Metrics This is important, it tells you what they look at and how they define what they look at.

Lee

9 Likes

In UPST case, the correct way to calculate gross margin (and I am saying GAAP gross margin without any adjustment) will be:
GAAP gross profit = Total revenue (121,345) - Customer Operations (17,388) = 103,957

So GAAP GM = 103,957/121,345 = 85.67%

It is a sky high gross margin business and I don’t think UPST’s contribution margin is equivalent to GAAP gross margin.

BR
Zoro

3 Likes

The auto loan growth opportunity is both exciting and also dependent on a key consideration.

Which is - do the auto dealers make at least as much off the loan as they do with their aligned banks?

My company spent tens of millions building an insurance product with smaller premiums and therefore smaller margins for the brokers, and asked the same brokers selling the big policies to sell the smaller policies. Big surprise, the new product sold 75% less than was hoped, and was shut down 2 years later.

11 Likes

Seeking Alpha has a “Gross Profit Margin” of 84.55% for UPST, that’s pretty close to what you got.

1 Like

Seeking Alpha has a “Gross Profit Margin” of 84.55% for UPST, that’s pretty close to what you got.

Hi Klay,

Thanks for pointing that out. I didn’t realize that Seeking Alpha had that. Could you provide a link?

While looking for it I found a page on Seeking Alpha where you could calculate it yourself. It’s under “Financials” and called “Income Page”. For the last quarter it gives Total Revenue as $121.3 million, and Cost of Revenue as $17.4 million and Gross Profit as $104.0 (rounding error).

Well $104.0 divided by $121.3 gives you a Gross Margin of 85.7%. I was glad to see that. That’s a lot better than their Contribution Profit which includes other expenses.

Best,

Saul

13 Likes

Adding to Saul’s reply, your question number 3 regarding home loans is somewhat irrelevant. Upstart is not in the real estate financing business. They provide loan appraisals for unsecured personal loans not exceeding $50K. The appraisal is passed to partner banks that execute the loan.

With the acquisition of Prodigy they have entered the auto loan market (not too dissimilar from unsecured personal loans). As pointed out in the information Saul culled from the CC, they will offer competitive loan appraisals via Prodigy, in other words the Upstart loan will not be exclusive and the consumer is free to select a different lender than the Upstart partner bank.

There are a lot more loan categories that they are not yet active in than the ones that they currently offer. I assume this all revolves around how fast they can train their AI to address these other categories.

1 Like

Hi, Saul-

Here is the link to the Seeking Alpha Page where you can find the UPST statistics, including gross margin:
https://seekingalpha.com/symbol/UPST

Look for the profitability section:
Profitability
Gross Profit Margin:
84.55%
EBIT Margin:
11.65%
Net Income Margin:
4.89%
Return on Equity:
2.78%

2 Likes

Similar to unsecured personal loans, is Upstart currently (or planning to be) involved in the approval process of credit card applications? Would be more accurate, and better able to assign interest rates and credit limits…

1 Like

Flying’s company’s example shows that. No matter how good of a product you have. It needs to be sold.

Prodigy is much more than vehicle loans. It’s marketed as an entire new way of doing business at a dealership online and in person. Sell more vehicles at higher grosses and better CSI.

If Prodigy is helping the dealer deliver more vehicles you can be sure that they will also get a nice percentage of the financing.

Similar to ZI, if you are successful helping a company sell more of their products you will have a long term customer.

3 Likes

Seeking Alpha has a “Gross Profit Margin” of 84.55% for UPST, that’s pretty close to what you got.

Upstart does not define a gross margin in its financials. It looks like Seeking Alpha is defining Upstart’s gross profit margin as:

total revenue - customer operations

where “customer operations” is defined in Upstart’s 10-K as:

Customer Operations
Customer operations expenses include payroll and other personnel-related expenses, including stock-based compensation expense, for personnel engaged in borrower onboarding, loan servicing, customer support and other operational teams. These costs also include systems, third-party services and tools we use as part of loan servicing, information verification, fraud detection and payment processing activities. These costs are recognized in the period incurred.

which sort of sounds like cost of goods sold. All other listed expenses (sales and marketing, product dev, and G&A) are definitely operating expenses.

source: UPST 2020 10-K:
https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1647639/000164763921…

Mike

3 Likes

In addition to the comments you liked Saul I can’t help but think they could create a portfolio of additional AI products/solution around marketing and customer acquisition that could then be sold to banks too. Here is what their CEO said about their own internal use of such solutions :

“And third, we upgraded the models that underpin our marketing acquisition program. That means for every dollar we spent on marketing, we brought incrementally more consumers to the platform and to our bank partners. AI has almost unlimited potential in spend targeting, life cycle marketing and even content generation. Applying AI to our customer acquisition efforts is a relatively new area of investment for us, and we expect it will be a significant source of growth in the future.”

AI+ML for loans is a huge market but applying this technology to customer acquisition/marketing would increase their TAM enormously. Very exciting company.

5 Likes