US Debt clock 2027

Fast forwards to 2027 and the US is $43 trillion in debt:

But with so much currency floating around why are the banks so reluctant to let us have any of it:

But then the money you put in the bank suddenly isn’t your money:

A bank bail in is where the bank can TAKE your money or savings and actually turn it into worthless bank stock. Oh, and this is 100% legal.

Get some of your wealth out of the system!

These limits largely exist for two reasons.

The first is to manage cash flow and liquidity. Banks keep a limited amount of cash on hand at any given time, as do ATMs. By setting withdrawal limits, the bank can control how much they have to distribute at any given time.

Just as importantly, if not more so, withdrawal limits are a security feature. By limiting daily withdrawals, banks help protect their customers against unauthorized access. Even if someone gets your debit card and PIN number, there’s a limit to the damage they can do.



Hi DB2

I’ve just been looking at the figures. $43 trillion at 5% - 6% comes out at over $2 trillion. The USA’s income works out at about $5 trillion as far as I can see:

When all the USA’s debt has been rolled over from low to higher interest rates then over 40% of the budget will be accounted for by interest payments.

One of the candidates for POTUS is saying words to the effect “something must be done about Social Security”, but not specifying what.

I am sure that rolling back any of the multiple waves of tax cuts for the “JCs” is off the table. The MO for the last forty years has been to take away from working people, while showering loot on the “JCs”.



Translation: Screwing working class people out of their retirements.


To summarize what @DrBob2 said: Banks don’t have much physical cash these days. If you want a cashier’s check it is not a problem.

Never was. But in the US, your accounts are insured by FDIC for up to $250,000 per account category. The bail-in issue only applies to amounts over that limit. If you have that much cash, it is easy enough to open another account, either in a different category or at a different bank.

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You’re spreading conspiracy theories. But then again, that is what you seem to do. A lot.

Where was this photo taken? When was it taken? What are the details around the situation?

There are certainly some plausible and fairly benign possibilities. Did someone at the bank screw up and not get enough cash into the branch for the day? Or perhaps a delivery of cash didn’t happen. Is there some natural disaster in the area - maybe a flood - that is causing an unusual number of cash withdrawal requests.

If you take a moment to read some details in the photo, it seems that you can still access your money in other ways, such as to make purchases with your debit card. So it’s only a limit on actual cash, not on withdrawals.

I’m sure you’ll again point out your “gut feelings”. Your gut feelings are not facts. I prefer to deal in facts, not in “gut feelings”, which lead to conspiracy theories.



So true. There are people to ignore and people to pay attention to. One of the most important things in life is being able to tell one from the other.



Indeed. It’s a balancing act between ignoring nonsense and providing a sensible refutation.

I should also not be quite so dismissive of gut feelings. They can be right. But they’re not to be blindly followed. Instead they should spur further inquiry to find out the facts of the situation.



That is not true because of the industrial buildout going on which increases tax receipts for decades to come.

…as someone who has studied economics and statistics to quite a high level I’m never too sure what the ‘facts’ are :slightly_smiling_face:

I left academia after being told more than once that my views were ‘unorthadox’ - best thing that ever happened to me. Leaving university life was my road to a far, far more prosperous life.

So, I’m all for a bit of unorthadoxy and gut feeling - they have seen me do OK.


Keeping your smiley in mind, facts are objective and verifiable. There is virtually nothing in economics that is verifiable.

Economics, at its core, is really a branch of sociology, not finance. Economics is the study of the behavior people with money. When you’re studying people, you’re studying sociology. Toss in money, and people - who are weird enough on their own - get even weirder. It’s called the dismal science for good reason. Not that the study of economics is a bad thing, but it’s a tough field.

Chemistry stays the same. Put these two elements together, and a certain reaction will happen. Or not happen. Reliably. Physics stays the same (as long as you’re not talking about the bleeding edge of something like quantum physics). Put a body in motion and it will stay in motion until some other force acts on it.

Economics doesn’t stay the same. Give a man an extra dollar. One day he’ll spend it on food. A different day he’ll save it. Yet another day he’ll light it on fire. People aren’t consistent. And even if you can somehow do this experiment often enough to get some kind of probability estimate for what the “average” person would do, if you repeat the experiment a year or two later, the results will almost certainly change. Ditto for running the experiment in a different place. And that makes studying how people behave with money hard. It’s downright dismal. :rofl:

But even then, you can state facts. “I gave 1000 people a dollar on this date, and here is what they did with that dollar.” Then describe all the different things they did. That is a fact. Whether it’s a useful fact is a different question. But it is a fact.

And as hard as it is to generate facts about human behavior, that’s what economics calls for.

Getting back to your post at the top of this thread, I stand by my opinion that you are likely spreading a conspiracy theory. I do that because this isn’t economics. This is something that can be verified. It’s apparently a sign in one Wells Fargo branch window. You have no idea why that sign was placed there. You have no idea of the circumstances around the situation. You don’t even know if the piece of paper is actually in a Wells Fargo branch window or something that some High School Freshman put together in Photoshop. But you take a single incident - that may or may not have actually happened because even that lacks sourcing - and spin a whole story around it, then spread that story as if it is gospel truth. That doesn’t even rise to the level of gut feeling. It is pure conspiracy theory.

Now if you want to have a gut feeling about it, that’s fine. But why doesn’t your gut feeling cause you to investigate this further? Why doesn’t it cause you to seek out actual facts. Where was this photo taken? What branch posted this notice? Why did they post the notice? If all your gut feeling does is spin some kind of story to fit what you think you see, your gut feeling isn’t serving you well.

And just so you don’t accuse me of not being willing to do this work, here’s what I could find about this situation.

You linked to an article at BilbaoHiria, apparently some kind of blog located in Bilbao, Spain. While they claim to be a news organization, this particular article lacks the hallmarks of good journalism. The article names no sources, not even a credit to the photographer for the photo included in the article. This particular line is somewhere between hilarious and criminally negligent:

Although precise details about the nature of these conditions have not been provided, the decision has sparked endless speculation.

The job of a journalist is to find those details. If you don’t have details to support your story, no competent news editor would run the story. But the author was right in one point, there has been endless speculation - including this specific article. He goes on to make his own speculations.

Alarm bells are going off. But let’s keep digging.

How about the photo so prominently displayed in the article? Can I find that? Why, yes, yes I can. Here you go:

It’s in a tweet from someone known as “Bitcoin News”, apparently Going to that home page, I see multiple links at the bottom, but none contain the name of any individuals, nor of any physical locations. No editorial staff. Some of the articles on the home page name the author. Some of them only credit “Bitcoin News”.

That’s not a good sign.

Another bad sign is that about half way down the home page, Bitcoin News invites people to join them on Telegram. If you are a news organization, why do you need to use an encrypted messaging app to talk to those you are trying to reach?

In a quick search of their web site I find no longer article on this Wells Fargo story. And the tweet contains no background or further information. Again, these are not signs of good journalism.

And one more tidbit. The Tweet from Bitcoin News and the writing from BilbaoHiria happened at just about the same time. If I have my time adjustments right, and assuming Twitter displays times as the local time for the reader, the BilbaoHiria writing came out about 2 minutes before the Bitcoin News tweet. Coincidence? I doubt it. (Or rule #39 - there is no such thing as a coincidence.)

So more warning bells.

I understand you are a UK Chartered Accountant. You are trained to perform audits of a company’s books and look for errors and omissions. I am a US CPA, roughly equivalent. Also trained to audit books.

In the US, part of the training is an apprenticeship, where we perform parts of audits under the supervision of a licensed CPA. This time is spent developing a sixth sense, a gut feeling, as you put it, for things that are wrong.

Now I’m the first to admit that I’m not the world’s greatest auditor. In fact, I have said publicly before that if I were to perform an audit today without supervision, I would be committing malpractice. I have been away from auditing for too long. But I still have a well-developed sense of something being wrong. And that sense of something being wrong is going off loud and clear. Not about Wells Fargo, mind you. But about your ability to sense decent news coverage from conspiracy theories. This Wells Fargo “article” you linked is nothing more than baseless speculation. A conspiracy theory.

And I’m pretty tired of conspiracy theories, aka LIES. They are tearing my country, and parts of the whole world, apart. We need to stop lying to ourselves and passing those lies on to each other.



If I had more thumbs I would cut them off and give them to you! Well said.




“Now, what I want is, Facts. Teach these boys and girls nothing but Facts. Facts alone are wanted in life. Plant nothing else, and root out everything else. You can only form the minds of reasoning animals upon Facts: nothing else will ever be of any service to them. This is the principle on which I bring up my own children, and this is the principle on which I bring up these children. Stick to Facts, sir!”

Dickens - Hard Times

Nor me. Let’s face it, it was pretty boring work.

I soon dumped auditing and passed the exams for these:

I had my own tax consultency business for 35 year before retiring last year. I’m now back to economics poking holes in the globalist economic theories.

This is clearly not true. Over the last 40 years of tax code changes, almost all “working people”, certainly nearly all the typical ones below median income have been completely removed from the income tax rolls. Some even have a negative income tax in the form of child tax credits (which are refundable).

It’s also kind of unique in the western world. In most other western countries, income tax rates are quite progressive and begin at relatively low levels. Furthermore, most of those countries also have a hefty VAT which means that lower income people are paying additional tax o everything they spend. In the USA, there are varying sales taxes, but they rarely exceed 10%, while VATs are typically 15 to 20% or even higher sometimes.


And it fails all the time.

Other countries have higher income taxes and VAT–but the public also gets a wide variety of services–including comprehensive healthcare–which they consider to be a reasonably fair deal. Plus, the average life span of citizen of an OECD country with universal Health Care is 2-4 years longer than the average US citizen’s life span.

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I don’t know if this helps your argument, but I find it interesting.

Scrolling down just a little bit to the second and third chart, you get household income by year, both in nominal dollars and adjusted for inflation. I find the inflation adjusted one kind of interesting.

The median income for all is pretty flat over the entire time frame (1968-2022). But the top 10% and top 5% lines both have a positive slope. I don’t know how the lower income brackets are doing over time since they’re not broken out separately, but I’m pretty sure the upper incomes are doing better.

Here’s another interesting page:

A bit much for me to digest at the moment, but a quick scan looks interesting.


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Without facts, you can’t do the harder thinking to figure out what those facts mean. And if you make up stuff pretending they are facts, any thinking you try to do about those made up “facts” is worse than worthless - it’s downright damaging.

Getting back to my point, you read and posted an article that made up facts about Wells Fargo. Then those articles tried to imply things about the state of Wells Fargo.

I’m not trying to defend Wells Fargo here. I’m trying to defend logical thinking over irrational fear.