Why I bought LLNW

I bought Limelight Networks (LLNW) after reading MountainDog18’s post, and the thread that ensued. https://discussion.fool.com/llnw-better-than-fsly-34539893.aspx&… Thank you, MountainDog18! Big thanks to 12x and Smorg for their posts, as well. I also read the Q1 conference call and most of the articles the Fool has published on LLNW in the last few years.

Let’s address the elephant in the room: LLNW is cheap. And not just ESTC cheap or ROKU cheap. LLNW is so cheap, it’s an order of magnitude cheaper than FSLY. That’s right, their PS ratio is 3.1 (not a typo). Why is this the elephant in the room? Because as most of you know, Wall Street is not stupid. There are good reasons LLNW is cheap. Management issues (like when they had to reduce 2019 guidance), customer concentration, a poor gross margin (but that, like Fastly’s, I believe will improve), and a business that has been through a transition.

But I didn’t buy LLNW because it’s cheap. I bought because I see a story unfolding that makes me think they could go on a Fastly-like run if the future plays out in a certain way. I don’t know that this will happen, of course, but it’s a plausible enough possibility that I’m willing to hold a small position (about 2.5% and some options, as of now). I think it will become a lot more clear in a few weeks when they report Q2.

The story

The interesting part of the story starts at some time in the last few years, when Limelight started ramping up their capacity to prepare the way for mega-customers that are so large that they immediately move the needle for Limelight. Amazon was the first of these, I think. The article Smorg linked to said that Amazon made up 30% of their revenue the last two years (I think the author meant 2018 and 2019). This brings up a big concern that should not be ignored: customer concentration risk. Limelight’s top 20 customers account for 77% of their revenue, which is borderline hazardous. However, these mega-customers can also spur a lot of rapid growth. (And I believe they are doing so.)

While all this has been happening, they’ve also shed a ton of smaller customers that didn’t really move the needle. I’m totally ok with this, as it seems a “quality over quantity” move, and those are usually good. (I would hope they haven’t done this in a way that makes them look bad in the marketplace, but it doesn’t seem to me that this is the case.)

Here are the raw customer numbers:


Year    Q1    Q2    Q3    Q4
2018   703   689   667   649
2019   643   621   609   599
2020   573

But check out the revenue numbers:


Year    Q1    Q2    Q3    Q4
2018   52.1  50.2  49.3  44.0
2019   43.3  45.9  51.3  60.1
2020   57.0

At first, revenue dropped too. But it seems that the strategy started to pay off in 2019. In the first half of the year, they actually had to reduce guidance (ouch). My theory is that they expected Disney Plus to launch earlier in the year, and when they found out it wasn’t going to, they had to pull back on guidance. However, Disney Plus debuted in November and as you see, LLNW’s revenue went up almost $9m sequentially from Q3 to Q4.

Then in Q1, with a full quarter of Disney Plus, revenue was only down $3m even though COVID hurt them badly. Streaming sports, including March Madness, is big for them, so that portion of revenue went to zero since there are no sports now, but the CFO said that the OTT revenue has more than made up for it.

I’m eager to see what Q2 will bring. HBO Max launched on May 27, so that could be a boost. Peacock launched its sneak peak for Comcast customers on April 15, but the nationwide launch (July 15) will hit in Q3. My theory is that they are seeing a two-fold boon:

  1. These mega-customers are coming on board (these are real game changers for them, with each customer probably paying Limelight millions of dollars each quarter)

  2. The overall increased traffic is huge for their usage-based model (just like it is for Fastly)

Admission of tech-ignorance, but a challenge
I am not in any way a techie. Muji and Smorg and others do not feel Limelight’s tech is especially impressive or competitive. I won’t argue, but I would appreciate it if someone could explain how this could be the case when Limelight has earned these mega-customers, including the likes of HBO Max, Disney+, NBC’s Peacock, and even Amazon freaking Prime.

One other caveat
Lastly, I have to concede that Limelight’s own guidance is disappointing. But I think that may be why we have this opportunity. Why did they do it? I think Limelight management is skittish. It’s possible they are just taking advantage of the situation and straight-up sandbagging…or maybe they can’t look analysts in the eye and predict real rapid growth, because other than the last couple quarters, they haven’t seen anything close in a long time. That’s why they talk about “double digit” growth and hitting $300m revenue “a full year” before 2024 (Wall Street’s expectation), when I could see them doing it in 2021. …Or I could just be wrong, and revenue from these these mega-customers could turn out to be not so mega.

Conclusions
Hopefully I’ve clearly recorded the positives and negatives here. I am following the numbers, and the story they tell makes sense to me. If I’m right, we might see real signs next month when they give Q2 numbers. I would expect the shares to see a rerating at that point, much like Fastly has seen since they reported on May 6th. Maybe even more of a triple or quadruple – at which point LLNW would still be “cheap,” relatively speaking. I’ll probably keep my position small until they report.

Bear

PS - not sure what this means, but traffic to their website in April and May has been more than double what it was pre-March: https://www.similarweb.com/website/limelight.com#overview

…but then, Fastly’s has pretty much tripled in May alone :slight_smile:

PPS - if you search Indeed.com for jobs with the keywords “limelight engineer” you can see a handful of listings by NBC and Disney and their other customers.

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So one thing I wonder with LimeLight:

once they land a big customer, can they / how do they / are they successful at - increasing offerings to said large customers?

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once they land a big customer, can they / how do they / are they successful at - increasing offerings to said large customers?

  1. With their usage-based pricing, they don’t necessarily have to sell anything new to make more revenue from each customer each quarter. As the customer’s business grows, they pay Limelight more.

  2. I think many competitors get used by these mega-customers as well as Limelight. I would think there’s a two-edged-ness to this: if Limelight delivers, these megas may use them more and others less. But if other competitors are better, Limelight might get used less and less, or even not at all.

Bear

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The interesting thing about LLNW is while q1 was down sequentially by $3 million, there was only a couple weeks that quarter of coronavirus. This coming quarter is full coronavirus. Meaning when people were at home streaming TV. Sports started shutting down well earlier in q1. I do see they do have some stuff with sports but not sure how much.

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Muji and Smorg and others do not feel Limelight’s tech is especially impressive or competitive. I won’t argue, but I would appreciate it if someone could explain how this could be the case when Limelight has earned these mega-customers, including the likes of HBO Max, Disney+, NBC’s Peacock, and even Amazon freaking Prime.

Limelight is a good CDN for cached video streaming. But, it’s a almost just a one-trick pony that way. For instance, Amazon switched its homepage and IMDB sites to Fastly last month: https://www.streamingmediablog.com/2020/05/fastly-amazon-hom…

Supported, btw, for IMDB switching to Fastly, by:
https://www.netify.ai/resources/applications/imdb

which includes the domain:
www-imdb-com.amazon.map.fastly.net

While cached video streaming is itself a growing business, I question whether a rising cached streaming tide lifting all boats is enough for Limelight. As Dan Rayburn’s article (above) says:
OTT video and software download traffic has very low margins, if any at all. Some of the largest customers get to set the price and CDNs that want that business don’t have much leverage to push back.

I don’t see how Limelights is a potential long-term play. Maybe catch a spike with some lockdown increased business, but growth from there is probably low double digits, below what we normally look for.

Of course, I could be missing something.

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Thanks for the thoughts, Smorg.

For instance, Amazon switched its homepage and IMDB sites to Fastly last month

If you look at the comments on your supporting link, David Belson posted a link to some kind of historical data that shows how some Amazon traffic is routed (I think that’s what it is). If you look, it’s been happening through Fastly lately, but if you go back several months or more, it wasn’t going through Limelight, but Amazon and Akamai. So that’s not business Limelight is losing or anything. (If I’ve misinterpreted this link, please let me know.)

I assume what Limelight does for Amazon is completely separate, and relates to streaming Amazon Prime.

OTT video and software download traffic has very low margins, if any at all. Some of the largest customers get to set the price and CDNs that want that business don’t have much leverage to push back.

Which is probably why Limelight’s margins are lower than Fastly’s, and unlikely to improve as much. They should improve some, though, because they’ve built out most of the infrastructure they think they need. They’ll continue to have CapEx, but not as high as the last year or so. So now it’s time to see if the revenue shows up. I think it will.

Please let me know what you think on these points. And thanks again.

Bear

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I assume what Limelight does for Amazon is completely separate, and relates to streaming Amazon Prime.

Yes, Limelight is still being used to stream Amazon Prime Video. Amazon Prime includes lots of things that don’t use Limelight, but the video streaming appears to be mostly Limelight. If anything, it appears that Amazon is using less and less of its own CloudFront product across the board and bringing in other CDN providers, including both Limelight and Fastly. It’ll be interesting to see if Amazon throws in the towel on CloudFront, or just slows development and starts under-pricing it. Amazon’s so big they can have things like CloudFront or DocumentDB not be big winners without impacting their bottom line. Like Google, they only need 1 in 20 of these efforts to be successful to bring in big bucks.

Which is probably why Limelight’s margins are lower than Fastly’s, and unlikely to improve as much. They should improve some, though, because they’ve built out most of the infrastructure they think they need. They’ll continue to have CapEx, but not as high as the last year or so. So now it’s time to see if the revenue shows up. I think it will.

I just did an in-depth post on Fastly (https://discussion.fool.com/fastly-presents-to-merrill-lynch-345… ) in which they confirmed what Dan Rayburn has said previously: the cached VOD business is characterized by very low margins. It seems that there are lots of streaming-capable providers and they’re competing with each other without much product/performance differentiation. This alone makes me want to continue to avoid investing in LLNW.

Again, I wouldn’t be surprised to see a pop, but nothing sustainable. And, of course, I could be entirely wrong.

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Yes, Limelight is still being used to stream Amazon Prime Video. Amazon Prime includes lots of things that don’t use Limelight, but the video streaming appears to be mostly Limelight. If anything, it appears that Amazon is using less and less of its own CloudFront product across the board and bringing in other CDN providers, including both Limelight and Fastly. It’ll be interesting to see if Amazon throws in the towel on CloudFront, or just slows development and starts under-pricing it. Amazon’s so big they can have things like CloudFront or DocumentDB not be big winners without impacting their bottom line. Like Google, they only need 1 in 20 of these efforts to be successful to bring in big bucks.

Interesting, thanks.

Again, I wouldn’t be surprised to see a pop, but nothing sustainable. And, of course, I could be entirely wrong.

I agree with this except for a caveat on my understanding of “nothing sustainable.” To be clear, my thesis is not that they will ever enjoy a multiple like DDOG or FSLY or CRWD. It’s simply that they are currently left for dead. Obviously it’s the “pop” that interests me most…but I wouldn’t say they can’t have sustainable success. I would just say that for them, “success” will be lower margins than we’re used to, and probably not much multiple expansion beyond a certain point.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Bear

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Thanks, Bear. My main concern with LLNW is - why did their Gross Profit Margin decline to only 36% in the latest Q? That’s awfully low, and declined from 44% in the previous Q. By comparison, Fastly’s GPM is over 51%.

Ron
Long FSLY (and loving the recent price breakout)

My main concern with LLNW is - why did their Gross Profit Margin decline to only 36% in the latest Q? That’s awfully low, and declined from 44% in the previous Q.

I actually see this, counter-intuitively, as a positive. It dipped because their revenue dipped, because of COVID. It was 36% based on 57m of revenue. However, if they had had 70m of revenue, gross margin would have been 48%. I think they were expecting somewhere more in the middle (not 70m), but you get the picture: They are built out for a significantly higher amount of traffic (and therefore a significantly higher amount of revenue).

Bear

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Hi Bear, what are your thoughts on the CEO? Glassdoor reviewers are giving him only 60%.

If there’s a lot of competition, then I think the people makes all the difference.

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Hi Bear,

You state that “their revenue dipped, because of COVID” but shouldn’t the shelter in place requirement deliver a tailwind rather than cause a dip in revenue for a CDN?

Thanks
Fireblade

The very next sentence in Bear’s post answers the question. They get a significant amount of sales on streaming sports, all of which shut down.

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Smorg has pointed out how Video is a hard market in which to find differentiation. I’ve wondered why, if that’s the case, Limelight is managing to consistently attract high-value customers.

Lake Street analyst Eric Martinuzzi noted that after spending time investing in its business, the company now has a “best-in-class” over-over-the-top, or OTT, video content delivery network.
https://thefly.com/landingPageNews.php?id=3115238

The blurb also mentions:

Limelight Networks…will be participating in a conference call hosted by Lake Street management on June 24.

So let’s look out for that!

Bear

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If you look at the IDC MarketScape: Worldwide Commercial CDN 2019 Vendor Assessment, you’ll see that Limelight is named a “leader”, while Fastly, Amazon and Cloudflare are lower ranked as “major players.” If you can’t pull up the chart, you can Google Images for it with the headline.
https://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=US44842119

But, again, I am most excited about Limelight’s clear leadership in sub-second latency realtime streaming.
https://www.limelight.com/resources/tech-brief/sub-second-la…

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I am most excited about Limelight’s clear leadership in sub-second latency realtime streaming.

Clear leadership?

What do you have to back that up? I haven’t seen any side by side comparisons. Latency measurements are complicated. Are we talking G2G (Glass to Glass), or just the delivery of already encoded/compressed video to a player?

https://www.fastly.com/blog/observability-in-live-broadcasts…
https://www.fastly.com/video/low-latency-live-streaming-usin…

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“One initiative is our work on Limelight Realtime Streaming. Later this year, we expect to launch a second major release, which will build on our existing offering of the industry’s first global, scalable, subsecond live video streaming solution by adding greater functionality and scalability to better meet the significant demand we see in the marketplace. We also expect this new version will allow us to capture a greater share of the sizable revenue opportunity for subsecond global video delivery.”

  • January 2020 earnings call

“The first use case is Limelight Realtime Streaming, which is the industry’s first global scalable sub-second live video streaming solution that is natively supported by major browsers and devices. Realtime streaming is a long-term opportunity for us, and we are pleased that this new offering clearly establishes Limelight as the industry leader in sub-second global delivery.”

  • October 2019 earnings call
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I was looking for something not from Limelight itself, especially some kind of comparison. Limelight’s product is based on WebRTC, but they’re not unique in that.

Separately, I see Limelight touting its increase in NPS (Net Promoter Score) - up 84 points since 2013, which must mean it was pretty bad as the range is -100 to +100. But, they never say what the NPS number actually is. Can you find it?

Fastly list its NPS (64) right on its company page: https://www.fastly.com/company

If you want a primer, with pros and cons, on NPS, this is as balanced as I could find: https://digital.com/blog/net-promoter-scores/

Limelight Networks is still half price from its IPO that happened 13 years ago Jun 8, 2007.
Did anything drastically change for the better?

Thanks,
Praveen

Taking a closer look at this company I listened to the analyst calls, and made the following notes:

  • They made heavy CAPEX investment in Q4-2019, which dragged down their GM for Q1. It was made very clear, this would increase next qtr.
  • Even though covid resulted in higher revenues for the last two weeks of March, their vendors charged them for peak usage for the entire month, further impacting margin.
  • CAPEX in infrastructure will continue to reduce going forward as revenues increase and fall to the bottom line.
  • In terms of guidance, no one on the call believed the guidance provided by the CFO, even he was somewhat apologetic! One key takeaway was he stated for sequential quarterly growth. So they should achieve 20% growth (approx. $240m, CFO guided for $225m to $235m) AND they have just reached an inflection point and making profits AND only trading at 3 x sales.

For anyone looking at this company, the quarterly statements don’t do it justice, you need to listen to the analyst calls.

The downside I think is limited, however if they achieve their stated target of $300m by 2021/2022, it should cause a re-rate, even a conservative re-rate at 6x sales, would result in a target price of $12 to $15.

Thanks MountainDog and Bear for the write-up.

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