A history of fats: Solid, Liquid, Subcutaneous, Visceral, Brown

Investment Analysis Clubs Macro Economic Trends and Risks
1

Back in the 19th century there was little if any health discussions about fat, solid or liquid, tallow, lard, chicken fat, butter, or olive oil. The good lord provided and there was no obesity epidemic.

Then industry discovered they could make money from trash. Instead of dumping cotton seed Procter & Gamble developed Crisco which was well accepted by the market. Seed oils followed and industry had to convince the market to use them instead of the old standbys. There was little or no research into the health consequences.

How to sell oils? Demonize solid fats. Solid fats clog your arteries just like they clog drain pipes. Liquid oils don’t. The obesity epidemic arrived and it was improper to shame fat people. ¡Mas de mi para querer! More of me to love!

In healthcare talk until a few decades ago there was no distinction between the various body fats. Weight loss programs and diets talked about undifferentiated body fats using Body Mass Index (BMI) as a lead indicator. Lately there is talk about subcutaneous vs. visceral fats. The one is ugly the other fatal. Visceral fat is better measured by waist size vs. BMI.

In diets Glycemic Index was supplemented by Glycemic Load. The Index is based on 50 grams of product while Load is based on serving size which is mot to the point. One datapoint piqued my attention, overcooked pasta has a higher glycemic load than the same pasta cooked al dente. Faster digestion, leads to higher glycogen load and higher insulin peaks.

The Captain

9 Likes
2

And fresh baked potatoes and hot potato soup have much higher glycemic load than cooked and then chilled potato soup, even if reheated and served hot.

Bring on the Vichyssoise, complete with real cream!

5 Likes
3

No two batches of potato products are ever identical. We know sugars build on storage in a refrigerator. Not to mention different varieties and differences due to soil, rain, fertility, when picked, how long in storage, and conditions of storage.

To make comparisons you must do identical preparations side by side w the same potatoes. Anything else is garbage. Standard deviations wipe out any conclusions.

3 Likes
4

flyerboys speaks the truth! Upon cooling some starch reorganizes into a form called resistant starch. This form resists digestion in the small intestine, so less glucose is rapidly absorbed.

Once that resistant starch is formed, it stays mostly intact even if you reheat the potato or soup.

7 Likes
5

Reheated potatoes better than fresh made potatoes, who would have thought? :slightly_smiling_face:

BTW, something similar happens with cooked rice. It does point out that food and digestion are more complex than corporate PR would have us believe.

The Captain

3 Likes
6

Sometimes the good lord provided, sometimes not. Before the modern food industry, famine and malnutrition killed a lot of people, especially children. I suspect there was no obesity epidemic mostly because people engaged in hard physical labor, requiring lots of calories, and went hungry a lot.

When we were suburban American kids we complained about being fed canned and frozen food. My grandparents, who grew up in rural eastern Europe, told me how lucky we were to have so much food that we could choose not to eat it. Having fruit year round, even canned and frozen, was a miracle. I once asked my grandfather if he went hungry. He said no, we had enough to eat, plenty of potatoes and turnips. Then his eyes lit up, like in Proust’s book, as he remembered delicious food of his childhood. Sometimes, he said, we even had an egg.

I’m a sucker for time travel movies and on a recent flight I watched a Japanese movie about a time traveling samurai warrior who ends up working as an extra in samurai movies. When he first arrives in modern Japan he’s taken in by a poor family but he says they must be very rich because they give him a piece of cake.

Look at how many traditional ethnic recipes, prized today, are ways to transform waste into food. Are haggis, oxtail stew, or gefilte fish any different than seed oil?

I suspect you are not, in general, a fan of the precautionary principal, the idea that until we know something is harmless we should avoid using it. I also get the impression you think capitalisim is a good thing. Why, then, are you so critical of Big Food turning waste into profitable, consumable calories without taking the time to find out whether it’s healthy?

I do think we are slow in turning developments in nutrition science into action, and are often impeded by Big Food and Big Pharma. This is no different than climate science and Big Oil.

8 Likes
7

Yes, they are different, not in the objectives which are good but in the methods and in the size and power of the originators. Nature kills off what does not work but aggressive capitalism perpetuates profit with little regard for all else. If we can organize to protect endangered species and climate change why can’t we organize to protect our health?

I like “turning waste into profitable, consumable stuff” not just food, any kind of waste.

I like capitalism but it has the same problem as all other “isms” that leads to extremes, i.e. power disparity.

Why critical? To find a solution one needs to discover the causes. As individuals we cannot tell Big Food how run their business but we sure can decide what to put in our individual mouths. Why is it bad to tell how I overcame obesity and related maladies. From the replies I have read there are quite a few of us who are careful about what we eat. Spread the news1

Each and every one of us needs to speak out! Silence is not the solution. Protest, peaceful if possible, is required.

The Captain

2 Likes
8

That would’ve been my granny’s observation too. She grew up in a low income background in England and money was scarce enough that she couldn’t afford to waste it on “food with no goodness in it”…likewise mum.

As you pointed out, the obesity epidemic was unknown back then and in earlier centuries (as mentioned in the OP) but it would be a big mistake/an example of historical revisionism to suggest that obesity as a condition was unknown. It was, in fact, quite common among the wealthy, sedentary individuals as they had food (non ultraprocessed/not a seed oil in sight) in near limitless quantities….. and chose to indulge themselves mightily….whilst the peasantry and food producers went hungry.

The primary difference between Days of Yore and now is that non ultraprocessed food is more readily available, and folk choose to eat it in addition to ultra processed additions in nearly the same quantities as a Tudor overlord…..but get to blame the processes that provided that choice as high on their list of culprits when they start to think about it.

Google AI overview will always provide an answer to solidify a bias when the right prompts are entered​:wink::wink:

2 Likes
9

So, by typing a simple “history of obesity” into Google’s browser and stepping over the AI overview, a slew of interesting perspectives come up. Looong reads, for sure but just a couple of examples…

SHORT HISTORY OF OBESITY - PMC SHORT HISTORY OF OBESITY - PMC

I chose the above because of the incongruity of the “short” in the title :rofl:. Granted, it’s not what we’re led to believe WRT the time line of today’s obesity epidemic, so….

The origins of the obesity epidemic may be further back than we thought | Science | AAAS https://share.google/xFbLkBVCG8uT3B0yg

1 Like
10

Turning waste into food (or other items of greater value) is known as value added. It applies many places including materials like iron ore.

11

From the article:

Most accounts put the roots of the problem firmly in the modern age. But could it have been brewing since before World War II?

Most certainly!

That’s one provocative conclusion of a study published today in Science Advances that purports to push the obesity epidemic’s origin back to as early as the 1930s

Creeping epidemics are hard to detect early on but the root could be traced back to Procter & Gamble introducing Crisco in June 1911.

How’s that for a provocation? :clown_face:

The Captain

1 Like
12

Hmmm…I looked everso hard to find the quote in the Danish paper, but came up short. Is this maybe an example of “ultra processed information” on your behalf? A quote garnished from an AI overview in response to a selective prompt devised to show just that?

1 Like
13

There’s also quite a bit of interesting history to the identification and discovery of the role of body fat…..both subcutaneous and visceral ….. as metabolically active organs rather than inert fat storage depots. This is a l9ng read (still not done but dumping here for my own future reference)

Advances in body composition: a 100-year journey - PMC Advances in body composition: a 100-year journey - PMC

Another one….evena mention of BAT and its role (quite a buzz at time of publication….not so hot nowadays)

Visceral and subcutaneous fat have different origins and evidence supports a mesothelial source - PMC Visceral and subcutaneous fat have different origins and evidence supports a mesothelial source - PMC

Yes….manifestly has been quite an area of interest for me since the discovery of letting started to surface on internet sites in the late 1990s…

Celebrating 30 years of the discovery of leptin: a revolutionary shift in understanding obesity and metabolism | American Journal of Physiology-Endocrinology and Metabolism | American Physiological Society https://share.google/OvX8a4dENxHQWg4ue

I recall that through the early aughts, I had cause to mention it frequently on the old H&N board (to the general disinterest of the majority, I imagine….featured on an episode of House, though) I recall one particular website I had bookmarked….run by a retired professor of Endocrinology from one of the London teaching hospitals as a hobby, I think. Adipocyte was the eye catching name, and it was tremendously low key in comparison to the whistles and flashing lights designed to bamboozle the credulous with explanations of seed oils as toxins on YouTube vids these days. Boy, throughout the early aughts, it was like a new adipocyte with far reaching properties was being discovered weekly.

A complex topic full of confusion for sure

14

What was the movies name, please?

Cheers,

MS

15
4 Likes
16
4 Likes
17

Heart disease and type II diabetes only affected 10% of the number we now see in the modern population. But the average Englishman who survived his teens lived to age 57 on average. I am not certain that anyone on this message board today is under age 57.

AI Overview
In 1850, obesity in England was considered almost nonexistent among the general population. While there is no single official percentage from that time—as the modern Body Mass Index (BMI) scale was only just being developed—historical research and health records provide several key insights:
National Institutes of Health (NIH) | (.gov)
National Institutes of Health (NIH) | (.gov)
+2
Prevalence and Demographics
General Population: Obesity was exceptionally rare, especially compared to modern rates (which were approximately 29–31% for English adults in recent years).
Working Class: Among the laboring classes, obesity was virtually unknown due to extremely high physical activity levels. Mid-Victorian laborers often expended 3,000 to 5,000 calories per day, keeping them lean despite high caloric intake.
Wealthy Elite: “Corpulence” (the Victorian term for obesity) was primarily a phenomenon of the numerically small upper and middle classes who could afford rich foods and sedentary lifestyles. Even in these groups, it was far less common than today.
National Institutes of Health (NIH) | (.gov)
National Institutes of Health (NIH) | (.gov)
+5
Historical Context
Average Weights: In the late 19th century, the average weight for an English man was approximately 140 pounds (63.5 kg) at a height of 5’6", which is well within the healthy BMI range.
Medical Views: In 1850, physicians like Thomas King Chambers were just beginning to compile “cases of obese persons,” but even a person weighing 150–190 pounds was sometimes considered controversial to label as “obese” by the standards of the time.
Health Trends: Nutritional studies indicate that the mid-Victorian period (1850–1880) actually saw a peak in public health for the working class, with chronic diseases related to obesity—such as type 2 diabetes and heart disease—occurring at only 10% of modern rates.
National Institutes of Health (NIH) | (.gov)
National Institutes of Health (NIH) | (.gov)
+4

In 1850, the average life expectancy at birth in England was approximately 38 to 42 years. This low average was heavily influenced by high infant and child mortality rates, but those who survived to adulthood could often live into their 50s or 60s. Life expectancy was slightly higher for women (approx. 42) than men (approx. 40) during this period.

[image]The Guardian +3

  • Key Factors: High mortality was driven by disease (tuberculosis, cholera, typhus), poor sanitation, and industrial conditions.
  • Life Expectancy vs. Lifespan: While the average at birth was around 40, if a person reached adulthood, their remaining life expectancy was significantly higher, often reaching 57 years or more.
  • Median Age: According to some historical population data, the average (median) age of the British population in 1850 was approximately 27.4 years, reflecting a very young population structure.

[image]The Guardian +4

18

From your bottom most link

image
image1920×753 171 KB

image
image1744×366 51.7 KB

Don’t you read what you link?

The Captain

19

Yes I do….but as I stated no mention of Proctor and Gamble. By your positioning of something you perceived as provocative, someone less than astute might’ve inferred Proctor and Gamble had control of the Danish cooking fat market

20

It’s not Proctor

The Captain