Avigilon Q3 2016

Avigilon (Aiocf) 3Q 2016

I want to thank SeekingAlpha.com for the use of their transcripts.

Avigilon is a Canadian company that sells security cameras and appliances. While security cameras are a commodity product, their special sauce is the software that they provide. They have software that allows face recognition, license plate reading, and their system is completely digital which allows less cameras that can zoom in and out. The software will allow you to set parameters that the cameras can key on and provide an alert to the security personnel. For instance, if the cameras are in a stadium and a fight is about to break out the cameras will key in on the situation and send an alert to the security personnel monitoring the system. Their system can also be integrated with older analog systems and grown with their digital products. They recently started a patent licensing program and they are licensing over 700 patents. They currently have over 20 companies participating in the patent program that started in February 2016 . Two of their largest customers are Bosch and Sony.

Conclusion: What a long strange trip it has been. I stuck with this company through thick and thin. I thought that when they finally met their $500 million run rate CAD that they would put the pedal to the metal on earnings. I think we can all learn from our investments and here are a few posts from Q1 2015 from Saul’s board.

http://discussion.fool.com/i-closed-my-position-in-avigilon-earl…
http://discussion.fool.com/aiocf-fernandes-doesnt-get-it-3174270…
http://discussion.fool.com/legoabs-everything-looks-good-to-me-e…

I respect both of these posters, Neil and Chris. They were completely correct short term. It’s been almost 2 years since those posts and they were right. Avigilon has only gone down since then and languished. At times I thought that I might have made a bad decision to hold. I still might have. But it looks like things are starting to look up.

But one thing I have learned from this. When a company says they are going to start spending money to fuel growth in the future. Believe them and expect your money to be dead for the next two years.

Now I want to state why I am excited about this company. The Ceo Alexander Fernandes stated in the last conference call With the majority of these investments complete, plan to continue growing with a stronger focus on increasing profitability. Ric will now provide a detailed review of our Q3 financial results. So now that the CEO has hit his run rate of 500 million CAD he is now going to focus on earnings.

This is great news because what has changed since the first quarter of 2015? What have we gotten for our money? Well we now have approximately 400 more patents. We are now leasing our patents out to other companies. We have a new factory with that can produce another 500 million dollars of revenue. We also have a trained bigger sales crew and our corporate headquarters has been remodeled. Oh and the corporate headquarter that they bought in November of 2015 for 42 million. They are looking to sell it for 100 million plus and lease it back.

Now I expect this company to finally start growing their bottom line. They have a patent portfolio now that they will get recurring revenue on and that is only going to grow. They have new products that they launched (H4 Product line) and now I expect the investments to finally shine. In five years they have gone from a 60 million revenue run rate to a 500 million run rate giving them a Cagr of 70%. With all of this infrastructure in place and revenues growing they should see expenses dropping materially as a percentage of revenue. If they can get back to 16% profit growth it would give them a lift of 12% in profit. I think this is exactly what is going to happen. I want to make it clear that both the CEO and the CFO stated that they were going to focus on profitability. Also Ric Leong (CFO) stated on the conference call that next year Cap Ex would be going down significantly because they had enough infrastructure built out for the next five years.

January 1st of 2016 the company changed their reporting currency from CAD to USD. All numbers now represent USD. I have also converted all numbers to USD.


 **Revenue** In Thousands
    Q1        Q2        Q3        Q4
14            $59,840   $65,115   $69,759
15  $60,573   $72,972   $72,577   $81,439
16  $69,932   $85,682   $95,817 

Revenue climbed this quarter by 32%. Avigilon’s best quarter are supposed to be their second and fourth quarter but last quarter their revenue only grew 17%. Their stock price went up over 40% on this report but it had more to do with the conference call and not the results of this quarter. I will explain all of this in my conclusion.

Avigilon’s Gross Margins


                2014                2015                     2016
                Q2   Q3    Q4       Q1   Q2   Q3    Q4       Q1   Q2    Q3
% of revenue    55%  57%   58%      59%  58%  57%   56%      57%  50%   51%

Their Gross margin is toward the low end of their range. They had a price adjustment on some of their lower end cameras reducing the margins. They expect the margins to increase as their patent licensing program grows, this is pure profits, and as economy of scales grow with all of the recent infrastructure they have built out.

Net Income in Thousands


      Q1        Q2       Q3        Q4
14             $2,591   $10,622   $11,329
15   $ 8,948   $1,837   $ 7,039   $ 4,207
16   $ 1,355  ($1,965)  $ 3,432

Net Income

                2014                         2015                               2016
                Q2        Q3        Q4       Q1      Q2       Q3       Q4       Q1      Q2       Q3
Net income      2,591     10,622    11,329   8,948   1,837    7,039    4,207    1,355  (1,965)   3,432
% of revenue     4%        16%       16%      15%     3%      10%       5%        2%      -2%      4%


 **Earning Per Share**  adjusted (Non-Gaap)
    Q1     Q2     Q3      Q4
14        $.11   $.22   $.22  
15 $.13   $.12   $.20   $.21
16 $.09   $.06   $.21

Net income and earnings per share were impacted by non-operational items including Forex loss. and increase in share based payments and in non-recurring costs.


 **Free Cash Flow**  Cash From Operating Activities – Cap ex.
        Q1          Q2         Q3               Q4
14                $ 3,325     $10,429         ($ 3,616)
15   ($4,952)    ($ 1,041)    $  1,527        ($50,380)
16   ($8,876)     $10,117     $11,936

Finally Free cash flow is coming back and they have been positive the last 2 quarters. I believe this will continue in the years ahead.

Cash and Debt


      Q1              Q2             Q3                    Q4
14                  $142,483/$0     $151,805/$0          $ 66,492/$0
15  $14,538/$57,575 $74,153/$15,573 $63,330/$16,590      $20,170/$17,591
16  $11,932/$79,366 $21,980/$85,113 $34,888/$91,172

While their cash has been growing so has their debt. They finally have built out their manufacturing and have the sales teams in place.

Finally, The security camera market grew by 6% last quarter and Avigilon grew by 32%. Clearly outpacing the market and taking share. This is a very fragmented market and Avigilon expects many of the smaller players to go bankrupt. With Avigilon now stating their goal is on improved profitability I think now might be the time for everyone to look at this company again.

Andy

17 Likes

Avigilon is a Canadian company that…

Hi Andy,
Any ideas why gross margins, after being steady at 57% and then 58% for a couple of years, have dropped off the last two quarters to 55% and then 53%. I see net margins dropping because of investments, but gross margins dropping puzzles me. With more revenue coming from licensing patents, I would have expected gross margins to rise. It’s a little point, and off the investment thesis perhaps, put it puzzles me.
(See slide 21 - (http://seekingalpha.com/article/4023496-avigilon-corp-2016-q…)

Also you give their post-IPO CAGR as 70%. I think that’s a bit high and would have got them there in 2015. They give the CAGR at 48%, which sounds more reasonable.

In slide 8 they discuss their TAM in 2016 and 2020 in a bar graph with two bars, the second one twice as high as the first, implying 100% growth to be expected by 2020. However, if you look at the numbers, they are $20 million rising to $25 million, which is only a 25% rise. A bit of deceptive (or overly enthusiastic) graph-making, which gives a small alert flag. Probably means nothing, but…

I’ll take another look at it.

Saul

3 Likes

In reading the transcript I see they did give the CAGR as 70%, which must have been where you got it, but it’s wrong (as you can simply confirm by multiplying 60 times 1.7 five times with your calculator). They give 48% in their slide deck.

In the conference call they were asked about $2 point something million in expenses which they dropped out of their calculations for adjusted earnings. They said it was legal fees which they felt were one time. Now, since they are constantly suing people over patents, I wonder how one-time that really is?

2 Likes

In reading the transcript I also discovered the answer to one of my earlier questions about falling gross margins. I see they cut prices and margins on part of their products, which makes me wonder if they are feeling competition from low cost manufacturers. Just wondering. They got several questions about that.

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Andy:

http://avigilon.com

They sure aren’t wasting money on their web site :slight_smile:

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Hi Saul,
Thanks for you input it is much appreciated. LOL you answer your questions to fast. You didn’t even give me a chance to wake up and have a cup of coffee.

But you are right about the Cagr. I should have checked the math instead of taking their word for it. Thanks for catching that.

As far as their gross margins. Avigilon always said that the cameras were a commodity business. They approve of them being commoditized because that isn’t the focus of their business. The focus is the software that allows them to differentiate their product. By analytics of any scene that the cameras are watching. Here is a statement that was made on the conference call.

Unfortunately seeking alpha is not letting me copy of their transcripts but if you go to the transcripts and read the discussion between Mike Walkley and Alexander Fernandes. Fernandes states that they lowered the cost of some of their older product so that they could capture more of the lower end of the market. They claim that they want to have their gross margins in the 50 to 60 percent range because if they are higher they will get less sales.

Here is the transcript:

http://seekingalpha.com/article/4023379-avigilons-aiocf-ceo-…

I think this makes sense Saul. But I think the real issue is their Net Margins. They have been horrible the last 4 quarters. Now they used to be in the 15 to 16% range if they can get them up to 10% next quarter that give them a nice bump. Then eventually work them up to the 15 to 16 percent range. Another thing that has to be understood. They only started their licensing program for their patents at the start of 2016. This is pure profit and hopefully it will grow. They do have an impressive patent portfolio.

In the conference call they were asked about $2 point something million in expenses which they dropped out of their calculations for adjusted earnings. They said it was legal fees which they felt were one time. Now, since they are constantly suing people over patents, I wonder how one-time that really is?

I googled Avigilon sues over patents and nothing recently came up. It seems they were sued back in 2014 and went to court in 2015 also. But it was Avigilon that was being sued for patent infringement. Saul do you show any lawsuits that Avigilon has brought forth?

In reading the transcript I also discovered the answer to one of my earlier questions about falling gross margins. I see they cut prices and margins on part of their products, which makes me wonder if they are feeling competition from low cost manufacturers. Just wondering. They got several questions about that.

Right Saul, and that is the one thing were my BS meter went up. Fernandes stated that it was a “price adjustment” lol now anyone’s price adjustment is another persons price cut. But he did state in the conference call that it was done because they wanted to expand their market share into lower price points. I am summarizing but that is how I understood it.

What do you think Saul on Fernandez and Leong both stating that they were focused on profitability? It wouldn’t be inconceivable that they will double their earnings next quarter. The second and fourth quarters are always their best quarters and they are going up against a low 5% margin in the fourth quarter of last year. The stock price went up 44% on this earnings call but has recently started coming back down. I think with the company now focused on earnings we should see some great quarters coming

Thanks for the questions and discussing this. If you have anymore insights it would be appreciated.

Andy

4 Likes

When you calculate EBITDA at Avigilon, there is a one-time expense that shows up in this quarter of 2.35 million. I wonder if you could elaborate, discuss what that is?

Ric Leong

Those are costs referring to non-related legal costs that we don’t we see as costs being incurred in future years, so not part of the running operational of the business…

Hi again Andy,
A $2.35 million write-off seems like a heck of a big write-off to slip past us without mentioning it somewhere, don’t you think? That just about comes to what their average entire net income is for the last four quarters, so it’s not some insignificant sum. They didn’t even mention it, either in their press release or in their prepared remarks, and were obviously hoping no-one asked, and then they gave a non-informational response. They would have had a big miss on adjusted earnings without it.

That doesn’t mean earnings won’t take off as you are suggesting. Just that you have to keep your BS Meter turned on, for sure.
Best,
Saul

2 Likes

Saul,
After looking into it more the 2.35 million is part of SG&A charges and is actually marked as Business acquisition-related and other non-recurring costs. So looking at that it doesn’t bother me at all. Its not like they are going out and suing everyone over Patents. Now you could say that Avigilon is a very acquisitive company and that they will always have these charges but that wouldn’t ring true either because the last acquisition they did was in Jan 1 2015 buying some patents. But I agree with you that it seems like a large percentage,2.5% of revenues, But in the 10q they state that G&A expenses will be coming down YoY.

I went back through their financials from Q3 2015 till the present and this is the only report where they mention legal fees. Q1 and Q2 of 2016 they stated that G&A was up due to increase of personnel. Q3 and Q4 of 2015 was down due to a reduction and reorganizing of senior management team. So looking this all over it doesn’t bother me at all. I do believe it will be a one time charge and that G&A expenses will come down. We will see.

Thanks for the discussion,
Andy

2 Likes

Thanks Andy.

Thank you Saul.

I really value your input and views because you show me the holes in my thought process. Very helpful Saul.

You were completely correct about this stock in 2015 when you all got out because they were talking about investing in growth and focusing on Revenue. I learned a lot from this stock. But now I think when they are focusing on earnings they might turn it around finally. I have been wrong for 2 years, lets see if I am finally right.

Andy

Andy,

Thanks for your work on this company. I’m going to look into it a bit more.

A little bit OT:

Unfortunately seeking alpha is not letting me copy of their transcripts

At the end of every Seeking Alpha conference call transcript I have ever read is this nugget:

You may quote up to 400 words of any transcript on the condition that you attribute the transcript to Seeking Alpha and either link to the original transcript or to www.SeekingAlpha.com. All other use is prohibited.

So as long as you keep it to 400 words and provide a link back , Seeking Alpha seems to be okay with it. Personally, I always have to play with it when I copy and paste while reviewing a conference call, but I try really hard to get it under the 400 word limit.

Just an FYI…

Matt
MasterCard (MA), Nestle (NSRGY), PayPal (PYPL), and Verizon (VZ) Ticker Guide
See all my holdings at http://my.fool.com/profile/CMFCochrane/info.aspx

2 Likes

Hi Matt,
Thanks for the information. I think they are changing their site though or possibly it is windows 10. But when I pull up the transcripts now on SeekingAlpha and try to highlight a text it won’t let me highlight any text. Also trying to log into the site it keeps messing with my input to username and password. I tried it on both my surface and my desktop and it does the same thing with both. It just started happening and it might be a temporary thing.

Andy

Hmm, I don’t know, Andy. But here’s a test from Avigilon’s conference call and it seems to be working for me.

Avigilon is the recognized video analytics leader and our technology and products are backed by what we believe is the industry’s strongest patent portfolio. The Avigilon patent license program delivered an increase of high margin revenue over the prior year. Still in its early stages, our license program is benefiting from a growing number of industry participants that are introducing video analytics as part of their product offerings. We believe that all surveillance systems will eventually have some level of video analytics capabilities, thus increasing the addressable market for the Avigilon patent license program.

I also have Windows 10. Wish I could give you a better answer to help troubleshoot.

Matt
MasterCard (MA), Nestle (NSRGY), PayPal (PYPL), and Verizon (VZ) Ticker Guide
See all my holdings at http://my.fool.com/profile/CMFCochrane/info.aspx

1 Like

used to own this one - three small observations, maybe previously mentioned:

*they issue a lot of options. Granted, this can be irrelevant short-term, but it kills you long term. Last 4 year grants: 1.4m, 780k, and 1.26m, 1.372m. They’ve issued nearly 1m ytd - and sure, forfeits have been VERY high (negating the impact) but when the company issues 3%+ in options each year that’s ugly to overcome. I don’t see off-hand how many anti-dilutive options kick in at various price points either…

*there was a “short” writeup on valueinvestorsclub.com. Worth a read - you can see the write-up in guest mode

*I could never get straight on whether this was a pure hardware businesses in terms of sales; was there any chance of service or is it just a one time deal per customer with no recurring benefit? Or, how do you develop a long-range projection on sales, earnings, and most important cash flow beyond just taking what management tells you. I mean, as you noted, the past numbers speak for themselves, so have they defined exactly how the near term will look in terms of projected free cash flow? Rather than a ‘stronger focus’, what will they do specifically?

previous guy but…

Would you say Avigilon’s disruption of the surveillance industry is comparable to Tesla’s disruption of the automotive industry?
Maybe in some ways. I don’t know if Tesla is a profitable company, but we are very profitable. So I don’t know if that is really a fair comparison. We are certainly innovators and we are very fast moving. Last year we were ranked the fastest growing company in all of Canada.

But what sets us apart is not just the fast growth by itself, because there are plenty of other fast growing technology companies, but the fact that we are consistently profitable year after year and increasing profit. Most of the companies on Deloitte or Profit Magazine’s rankings, these high-speed rankings, they typically are ignoring the bottom line and so it’s no surprise that the majority of fast growing companies aren’t profitable because they are basically just buying their customers.

So profitability factors pretty high into your goals as CEO.
Absolutely. The question with fast growing tech companies that are not profitable, is: Will they ever be profitable? There is inherently a lot of risk because the day may never come, because the business model may be flawed. This is where businesses fail: they just never get the profitability right.

…lots of promises with no delivery.

Course, as noted, I don’t follow this company anymore…

3 Likes

Hi oneeye,
Thanks for the information. You must be a value guy. That isn’t a put down just an observation. There are many ways to make money and value guys are some of the best.

*they issue a lot of options. Granted, this can be irrelevant short-term, but it kills you long term. Last 4 year grants: 1.4m, 780k, and 1.26m, 1.372m. They’ve issued nearly 1m ytd - and sure, forfeits have been VERY high (negating the impact) but when the company issues 3%+ in options each year that’s ugly to overcome. I don’t see off-hand how many anti-dilutive options kick in at various price points either…

I do not see 3% as being a huge number. There are many tech companies that will give out enormous amounts of stock. Infinera gives out 4-6% and splunk gives out 46%. But I understand what you are saying, and essentially agree with it. I do not like investing in companies that give out enormous amounts of stock but 3% does not even concern me.

there was a “short” writeup on valueinvestorsclub.com. Worth a read - you can see the write-up in guest mode

Very interesting read and I have a few things to say about this writeup. First the author didn’t mention the patent program where Avigilon is leasing their patents. This will be a high margin business when it gets fully growing. Like I said in my write up, Sony and Bosch are two of the companies involved and I think it will only grow.

Secondly they said that 95% of the top end of the IP market is already installed. This statement supposedly came from Axis and looking at their financials it might be true for them. They grew sales by 5% last quarter and Avigilon grew it by 32%. But Axis had a profit margin of 12% and Avigilon’s was only 4%. This is concerning but we also have to realize that Avigilon was trying to reach that 500 million CAD revenue mark so they probably did sacrifice some margins to reach that goal.

Thirdly, When the author wrote his report he was correct about Avigilon’s market being mid to high but in the recent quarter they decided to lower their price point on some of their older products so they could compete at the lower end. This was worrisome for some of the analysts but they admitted that it looked like Avigilon had pulled it off because although the price was lower they had accomplished a higher though put.

I could never get straight on whether this was a pure hardware businesses in terms of sales; was there any chance of service or is it just a one time deal per customer with no recurring benefit? Or, how do you develop a long-range projection on sales, earnings, and most important cash flow beyond just taking what management tells you. I mean, as you noted, the past numbers speak for themselves, so have they defined exactly how the near term will look in terms of projected free cash flow? Rather than a ‘stronger focus’, what will they do specifically?

Well, while they do sell the hardware their biggest differentiator is the software. I think you would have to look at it as a one time sale unless the customer needs more cameras. But where the recurring revenue will come in is with the lease of their patents. I am sorry Oneeye but you are a more sophisticated investor than I am. I do not do DCF calculations now do I try to project what earnings or Revenue are specifically going to be. I just look at the business and see that they are making a 4% profit margin now, and they haven’t been focused on earnings. Now that they are focused on earnings I look at what they had for profit margins, 16% at the high, and think what would happen if they were able to reach 10%. That’s my thinking at least.

So specifically what they are doing is growing their patent leasing program, selling their older hardware at a discount entering the lower market, and focusing on keeping costs down. They have finally grown out their business by building another manufacturing plant and putting in place a sales team. The sales team has now been in place for about two years and from what I have read, after two years a sales team should be fully trained and functioning. Also with the manufacturing plant in texas they are now able to sell over 1 billion a year in product.

previous guy but…

I am not sure what the time of the quote was that you were referring to but I am assuming it might have been the CFO?

Avigilon has always been focused on a 500 million dollar run rate since their IPO. But in early 2015 they kicked the focus into high gear so that they could meet their goal. Saul, Chris, and Neil on this board caught it immediately and bailed on the stock. I am not as sophisticated so I stayed in place and watched what happened. Well the stock price tanked and I rode it out. It has been a very educational investment for me. But I wanted to see what would happen when they met their goal. If they had stated that their next goal was a run rate of 1 billion dollars I would have bailed. But since they are stating that they are focused on earnings now, this is their new goal, well I will keep with them and hopefully this will make a great investment for me. One more thing. I noticed in the report that you linked that the author said that AXIS had a better patent portfolio. I could not find how many patents they hold but they state on their website they are the market leader. Avigilon has over 700 patents and you can find this in their financials. But with Axis there isn’t any insight, that I could find.

Hope this answers some of your questions.

Andy

6 Likes

I stayed in place and watched what happened. Well the stock price tanked and I rode it out.

I did the exact same thing…only I went ahead and bought some more after the recent earnings report and CC. Giving them the benefit of the doubt and trusting they’ll be able to grow earnings from here. Would probably have been prudent to have waited till they proved it, but it wasn’t a large purchase, and I wanted some shares at these lowered prices as I think they’re really undervalued if they do start growing earnings again.

I do not see 3% as being a huge number. There are many tech companies that will give out enormous amounts of stock. Infinera gives out 4-6% and splunk gives out 46%.

If it matters, I’m just making observations or points of view. It is up to the reader to determine whether what is posted is relevant or not.

On options, it just creates really bad dilution on the share count line - and it really gets worse as the price spikes. I get not worrying about this w/a company that is not cash flow positive but it can be a real issue otherwise. In essence, I view it as a window into what management thinks of its shareholders, and while this won’t determine whether a stock goes up or down (esp. short-term), it has major implications longer-term. That’s the only reason I pointed it out. The number of options they issue has been shielded by the lower stock price (making many of the options worthless) and cancellation (turnover in the ranks), but if the stock price begins to respond you’ll see major dilution.

On the VIC writeup, I just thought it presented a variant view and that’s why it was interesting. I have no dog in this hunt and no opinion on his opinion. Thanks for your additional information - really appreciate it.

That quote was from the original founder and CEO. In the end, I’m all for you making a good investment, period. With the sales growth they have, it has always been on my radar.

You must be a value guy.

:slight_smile:

There was a time when that was a swear word…my first post:

http://discussion.fool.com/you-post-was-absolutely-hilarious-on-…

Been called many things…now I’m just an ‘old’ guy…but in truth, I’m a long-time acolyte of Peter Lynch…

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Hi Oneeye

If it matters, I’m just making observations or points of view. It is up to the reader to determine whether what is posted is relevant or not.

Totally agree with you on this. Please do not think anything I post is dismissive of your thoughts. I am just responding in kind. I think everyone should read your post because it did have some very good points and well thought out.

On the VIC writeup, I just thought it presented a variant view and that’s why it was interesting. I have no dog in this hunt and no opinion on his opinion. Thanks for your additional information - really appreciate it.

Totally agree. I want all the bear cases I can find on this company. Thank you for that.

That quote was from the original founder and CEO.

Oh ok I thought when you said previous guy you meant someone who had left the company. There have been a lot of them in the past :slight_smile:

Take care and thanks for the information.

Andy

fwiw:

http://www.cantechletter.com/?s=avigilon
lots of interesting stuff…

1 Like

my bad - I thought the CEO/founder had resigned…