Both aircraft in the Potomac River – 60 passengers on AA jet, at least 3 in Blackhawk. A CRJ700 jet on short final approach would be traveling about 150 mph.
Interesting that about 43 years ago a similar air crash brought CNN to life.
intercst
Both aircraft in the Potomac River – 60 passengers on AA jet, at least 3 in Blackhawk. A CRJ700 jet on short final approach would be traveling about 150 mph.
Interesting that about 43 years ago a similar air crash brought CNN to life.
intercst
iirc, the 82 crash was due to ice/snow load on the plane.
This one was in crystal clear weather. The late news was showing video from a security camera, iirc, on the Kennedy Center. The Kennedy is apparently directly under the landing approach. The video shows one plane flying over the center, with the landing lights of the American feeder plane clearly visible, following behind the first plane. The helo’s lights can be seen approaching from the left, and the helo runs directly into the side of the airliner, with a resulting fireball, that drops into the river.
Steve
Yes, bad de-icing job on Air Florida flight.
Typically they keep helicopters below 800 feet AGL around Class B airports and would want to maintain a 1,000 ft vertical separation. I can’t imagine a helicopter crossing under the approach path to Runway 33 any closer than 2 miles out. Looks like the collision took place about a 1/4 to 3/8 of a mile from the end of the runway.
Likely a screw up by Blackhawk pilot or ATC.
intercst
ATC radio traffic before crash.
PAT25 is call sign for Blackhawk helicopter. Looks like ATC wanted Blackhawk to cross approach path after AA regional jet landed.
intercst
The New York Times pointed out that ATC warned the helicopter twice – to watch for the airliner and to pass behind it – but the helicopter did not acknowledge ATC after these advisories.
It will take the NTSB a long time to investigate as it always does. But I agree with you that the helicopter pilot was clearly in error. The airliner was turning onto the ILS at 200 feet for final approach and obviously had the right of way. It’s possible that the helicopter pilot didn’t receive ATC’s warning (tuned to the wrong frequency? malfunctioning equipment? inattention?) or simply didn’t see the approaching airliner.
This horrible tragedy will hopefully prompt the military to rethink its training missions in Class B airspace, especially intersecting airport landing approaches.
Wendy
The helicopter guys were training with night vision goggles, and anyone my experience with with such taught me of their terrible tendency to push users into tunnelled sensation, gating out other information.
For those who missed the presser shortly before noon, TNG is trying to blame it on DEI. When someone questioned that conclusion, he said “common sense”.
…say anything that advances the narrative. doesn’t matter if it’s true. just keep advancing the narrative.
Steve
The NYT is not quite correct here.
The helicopter requested visual separation a minute or two before the crash, then requested visual separation again in the moments just before the crash. Both times ATC approved the visual separation.
You can listen to the ATC conversations in these two videos. (Yes, these types of videos are a thing on YouTube). Here is a video that focuses on the helicopter communications.
Last Radio from Army Helicopter | Mid-Air Crash with American Airlines CRJ-700
This particular compiler has a companion video which he produced first but was lacking much of the helicopter communications Apparently, some of the helo communications are on a different radio frequency (at least in part).
Audio of MID-AIR CRASH into Potomac River | Regional Jet and Black Hawk Helicopter
From what I have been able to learn, I believe these are normal operations for both the airliner and the military helicopter. The helicopters generally cross the path of landing airliners, typically staying under the flight path. They also coordinate with ATC to keep separated by horizontal distance as well, as was attempted here. (ATC asked the helo to pass behind the airliner.)
The DC airspace is one of the most congested - and most restricted - in the country. It’s restricted because we don’t want aircraft flying closely over places like the White House, Congress, and Supreme Court. There are also multiple military bases in close proximity to DC, which also complicate the air space.
This airport - Reagan National - is just over 2 miles due south of the White House, and about 2 miles southeast of the Capitol. The longest runway (1-19) points at the White House, forcing planes taking off to the north to make an almost immediate turn after takeoff to follow the Potomac river to the north west. A second runway (4-22) points to the Capitol building. Takeoffs in that direction have to make an even quicker and sharper turn (if they even use it for northerly take-offs, which I’m not sure of). The third runway (33-15) - which is the one this airliner was using - requires a visual approach. There are no instrument landings to runway 33, as those would overfly Joint Base Andrews. Aircraft actually follow the instrument approach to runway 1, then at a certain point, break away from that approach and follow the east bank of the river, making a slight left turn at the last minute to line up with the runway and land. It was right around this point that the collision occurred.
While my opinion would certainly be unpopular with those in the DC area, I believe it’s time to shut that airport down and move all of that traffic to Dulles, which is west of DC. There simply isn’t room for commercial air traffic that close to DC.
Forgot to point out that the Pentagon is about 3/4 of a mile northwest of the airport. Runway 33-15 points right at that.
When landing to the south, it appears that only runway 19 is available, and I’m sure that’s got to be a modified approach, as a standard approach would have planes flying right over the White House. My guess is that they follow the Potomac river, with a slight turn to the right at the last minute to line up and land.
–Peter
Your opinion is shared by the overwhelming majority of those near DC, but not those holding ultimate power: Congress.
Over the last two decades the members of Congress have decided to go home every weekend, and so do NOT want to mess around getting all that long way out to Dulles. It is Congress that has ordered the closer Reagan Airport to remain permanently open, a noisy nuisance to residents, and dangerous.
Poor babies. Such a long drive. That they’d have their chauffeur take them on.
Maybe give them a free helicopter shuttle from Joint Base Andrews to Dulles? Call it part of the training budget.
Better yet, maybe they’ll figure out that this is an indication that this airport is operating at the edge of safety, and it could have been them on this flight.
–Peter
THAT is the #1 point to make. When it happens (not if), there WILL be changes made. Guess why…
The “obvious” solution would be to make National an “executive” airport, open only to (L&Ses) and their lobbyist paymasters. All the Proles need to go to Dulles.
/sarcasm
Steve