California bans gas cook stoves

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New homes and buildings that are constructed in 2023 will have to have electric supply panels and circuitry to support all-electric appliances and heating under a building code update approved two years ago by the California Energy Commission.

The new building code doesn’t ban the sale of natural gas appliances outright — that will come in 2030, in a mandate from the California Air Resources Board that is designed to lower the “carbonization” of structures and improve indoor air quality.

The headline is misleading. So at least for a few more years one will still be able to build an off grid home with minimal electrical usage but will have to wire it as if it were being tied to the grid.

This does not seem to be an entirely well thought out law.

Cheers
Qazulight

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This is a well thought out law. What you are suggesting is illegal - people can not wire the appliances as if they were being tied to the grid. Besides there will be no permits for running gas lines into these new houses. The reason for still being able to buy gas appliances until 2030 is for people who already have gas appliances and want to replace them. After 2030 people will need to hunt for used gas appliances as replacements.

Or drive to Arizona and purchase something new.

DB2

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Or drive to Arizona and purchase something new.

DB2

Smuggling is also illegal.

Jaak

Is there something in the law that prohibits people from interstate commerce (‘smuggling’)?

DB2

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If something is prohibited by a state, then it is not legal to bring such an item into the state. Selling the house also then becomes an issue.

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No the law specifically states that the wiring must be in place to wire to the grid.

There seems to be no exception for homes off the grid. So, as I currently read the law, if you built an “Earth Ship” and wanted a propane stove and a propane heater along with a propane dryer, you could, but you would have to have the wiring in place to connect electrical appliances also.

As yet, the ability to generate electricity through renewables at local level and store those renewables is not economical. Although off grid is still possible with no gas appliances, the supplementary energy in the scenario I provided, would have to be run through a genset dropping energy conversion from potential energy in the propane to no greater than 30 percent.

Just estimating here, the energy conversion from potential energy in propane to heat for cooking and heating is much closer to 100 percent.

This is not to say that renewables, I am thinking solar plus storage, can never work on an all electric off grid home, it is just a poor economic choice now.

On a grid connected home, I prefer to have gas available, in places where earthquakes are not so common, it is an extremely reliable grid tied source of energy, much more so than the grid. In California, I don’t know.

Still this law would seem to be problematic for off grid living in California.

Cheers
Qazulight

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I haven’t read the building code, but jaagu wrote “After 2030 people will need to hunt for used gas appliances as replacements.” This implies that if your house is already hooked up for gas then you are free to continue using said appliances.

Also, banning the sale of something in the state is not the same as outlawing bringing something into the state you already own. For example, this same state is banning the sale of ICE cars in 2035. That is not the same as a prohibition on driving into the state with an ICE vehicle.

DB2

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I don’t think that’s true. Only Congress can regulate interstate commerce.

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Where’s the handwringing from the anti-EVers about the impact that forced conversions of hundreds of thousands of homes from gas to electric will have on the Grid?

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It is an issue, but it depends upon the growth rate in demand and the growth of generating capacity. For example, as noted earlier this month for heating in the southeast:

Big Growth in Electric Heat Set Stage For Blackouts in US South
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-12-29/big-growth-in-electric-heat-set-stage-for-blackouts-in-us-south?leadSource=uverify%20wall
The states hit hardest by blackouts in last week’s winter storm have significantly increased reliance on heating homes with electricity over the last decade, putting more strain on the power grid when temperatures plummet.

The number of households using electric heat in Tennessee, North Carolina and South Carolina increased by about 20% from 2009 to 2020 , according to government data that survey a sample of households. The generating capacity of power plants in the region, meanwhile, has remained relativity flat…

The push to electrify household appliances and heating has changed consumption patterns and created regions where electricity demand now peaks in both summer and winter, according to Sanjeet Sanghera, head of grids and utilities at BloombergNEF.

DB2

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Changing out the generation fleet to non-ghg sources would cut US ghg emissions by 25%, vs 27% for changing out all transportation sources, and would not require rebuilding everything else…but no, can’t do the obvious thing.

Steve

As you know, it’s a complicated system.

Electric cars and heat pumps push local power grids to their limits

Local power grids are threatening to become the bottleneck for the energy transition, an expert warns in the FAZ newspaper. According to estimates, their expansion would cost a three-digit billion sum…

But the energy industry is already warning that local power grids in cities and communities are reaching their performance limits. This is reported by the “Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung” (FAZ). According to the report, the German Federal Network Agency is therefore planning to temporarily ration the power supply to heat pumps and charging stations in order to protect the distribution networks from overload.

Starting in 2024, grid operators are to be given the option of “intervening in a controlling manner in order to be able to maintain secure grid operation,” the newspaper quotes from a key points paper of the grid agency. However, car owners should not have their electricity cut off in the event of bottlenecks. Thomas Müller, the head of the grid agency, told the FAZ that there would be “no complete shutdown.” “We want to guarantee a minimum supply at all times.” The talk is of charging times of three hours to be able to charge electric cars so that they can cover a distance of 50 kilometers [30 miles].

DB2

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More brilliant government intervention ahead. Unintended consequences: centrally report/classify & rate every electricity-consuming item in your house/business/operation and get a different price mandated by the government for each one of those classes. Or, get your own solar/wind system. Can’t afford it (because the kickback subsidies end up in the pockets of the manufacturers’ executives)? Tough. It takes a lot of electricity to power a London doubledecker EV bus for a day of use. They’re going to penalize people for government policy decreasing emissions? Brilliant!

How about focusing on the PROBLEM and invest in clean power generation!!

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That is what I keep saying. Who nominated the consumers to bear all the compliance issues?

Steve

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