California could ban new natural gas heaters after 2030

I grew up in Montana , worked as a faller, and above timberline always meant above the tree line. Those are silver pine and are very plentiful all over the west. We always thought of them as commodities.

Andy

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I use 100% renewable electricity for heating and cooking. You use fossil fuels for heating and cooking.

I will give you a gold star for being such a great human being. Keep doing what you are doing. You are saving my life. Thank you.

Andy

Still waiting for my gold star!

:sparkles:

Close as I can get…

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Thank you Neuromancer. But a promise is a promise. Here you go jaagu.

Andy

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There is another aspect to this electric versus gas issue that can be mentioned. Electricity is around 3 times more expensive, on an equal energy basis.

The average price of residential electricity in the US is $0.1574 per kwh. Let’s assume electric stoves are 100% efficient at converting electricity into heat, so $0.1574 per kwh of heat.

Price of Electricity

The average price of residential natural gas in the US is $14.8 per 1000 cubic feet. With an average heat content of 1036 BTU per cubic foot, and 3412 BTU per kwh, the cost of natural gas is $0.049 per kwh of heat.

Price of Nat Gas

Heat content of Nat Gas

$0.157 per kwh for electric, versus…
$0.049 per kwh for natural gas.
Electric heat is about 3 times more expensive.

Local utilities will have different pricing, for both electricity and gas. I looked at my latest San Diego Gas & Electric bill, and electricity costs me over 5 times more than natural gas on the same comparison basis.

  • Pete
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You forgot that natural gas stoves are only about 32% efficient in heating. Therefore, cost of cooking with natural gas is about $0.150 per kwh which is about the same as electric.

How efficient are electric stoves? Certainly not 100%.

Also, I’ve seen a number of articles over the years that indicate heating your home with gas is cheaper than with electricity. For example, from Kiplinger this January:

“The most common electric heat systems have higher monthly operating costs compared with the most common natural gas systems, based on the most recent U.S. government statistics.”

DB2

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It depends how the heat is created at the house and then distributed within the house. A friend did a shift from a nat gas water heater and whole house (2-3 story house and full basement–this is MN, after all) hot water furnace/radiator system to current tech electric systems. I posted the results previously, but the heating systems (hot water and whole house heat) are far more effective now than previously. The radiators used to get somewhat hot but nothing spectacular–the cats LOVED to sit on the radiators and look outside in the winter. Today, the radiators get REALLY HOT and covers for the tops of the radiators are required–to both keep the heat down AND allow the cats to sit on them. Otherwise, they would be parked on the dining room table and chairs because the uncovered radiators are too hot for them or people to touch when the heat is on.

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Long term nothing beats investing in very excellent insulation and seals at doors and dual paned windows. Good for blocking noise as well.

david fb

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Like everything, it depends. A ground source heat pump is almost always the cheapest source of heat. However, the installation costs are higher and not all locations are practical for the ground loop.

Heat pumps lose efficiency–that is, costs go up–as the temperature of the source goes down. So accordingly it costs more to run the heat pump in colder parts of the country. In those locations, a natural gas heater might be more cost effective, especially if you don’t have a ground source option. In the south and west coast a heat pump is probably more cost effective.

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Induction cooking is astonishingly efficient, using up to 99% of the electricity generated to cook the food .

Electric vs. Induction Cooktop: Which Is Greener?.

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And they are 5-10% more efficient than electric stovetops.

DB2

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I guess I could give them a try while burning a candle by the stove. I am addicted to the smell of a campfire.

Andy

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General comment: The energy usage of the stovetop/oven is tiny compared to other systems of the house. Heating and cooling is the biggest user by far in most homes. You have to go pretty far down the list before you get to the oven.

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My OP was about air pollution and carbon emissions in California. The thread got sidetracked on Natural gas vs. electric cook stoves. Any pollution is California is hated by the people of Californiia.

Isn’t part of CAs plan eventually eliminating natural gas stoves and replacing them with electric stoves? So it’s part of the CA plan and part of the discussion.

I believe this just applies to new construction. But the driver is indoor air quality, not carbon reduction. The difference in operational costs is trivial.

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