… Colleges with highest average salary 10 years after graduation.
Colleges With Highest Salaries After Graduation
https://www3.forbes.com/leadership/colleges-with-highest-sal…
FORBES researched and rounded up a list of the top 25 colleges where graduating students go on to earn the highest mid-career salaries, meaning they have worked for at least 10 years.
intercst
Good post - showing the importance of a book like “Factfulness” by Hans Rosling, which talks about how wrong “common knowledge” can be.
Of course, the first thing I did was to compare the statistics of my, close to free, central city municipal schools (both members of the City University system of New York) stacked up against the “really good schools”:
The mid-career salaries of the colleges in the article ranged from the #25 $88,000 at Notre Dame to the #1 salary of $110,200 at MIT
The City College of New York (CCNY), where I got my electrical engineering degree:
https://www.ccny.cuny.edu/news/princeton-review-lists-ccny-a…
Lauded by the Princeton review as giving you one of the top bangs for your buck, has a median mid-career salary of $93,000, which would put them at #15 displacing Duke
CUNY counts 13 Nobel Prize and 26 MacArthur (“Genius”) grant winners among its alumni.
Baruch College, the business school of CUNY (City University of New York), where I go my MBA
https://universityhq.org/best-colleges/cuny-bernard-m-baruch…
Baruch College Grad’s Mid Career Salary is $107,100 which would put them at #2, displacing every school except for MIT which is about 3% higher
In my case, fortunately 1 + 1 more than equaled 3, with the advantage that I had no educational debt.
When people ask what the advantage of going to an Ivy League school is, I answer that some HR departments feel more comfortable that they are getting a “sure bet”, but the real advantage is the network of alumni who are there to help you up the ladder during your working life. In my case, going to night school, while my education was top-notch, there was zero support further down the trail from either my fellow students nor alumni associations. (To be honest and fair, I never sought their assistance, so it might have been there if I had sought it.)
So, either go to a cheap school (The Cooper Union is another valid choice) or go to a foreign school, but going into six figure debt to get educated simply means that you are dumber than you are smart if you are looking to make a buck.
Jeff
As an artist the difference in how much someone makes is risk taking and how creative they can get with the product and the marketing of the product.
Other wise you only have a job.
I get some of these guys have directorships. That is not the average grad though.
All the rules of branding apply. Top rated schools attract the best employers and students. They can also charge more.
When youngest daughter was accepted to MIT many years ago, they sent out a sophisticated marketing package with the overall theme of “don’t worry about how expensive we are the results are worth it” (my words). Lots of statistics about their students’ accomplishments. But on her overnight visit, she didn’t feel comfortable with the intense pressure the students she met felt they were under. She went elsewhere much to my chagrin but it didn’t seem to hurt her. At a slightly less prestigious school she excelled continued to grad school and has done very well economically.
I worked with several MIT grads and had several MIT student summer interns. It was obvious that MIT with their top-notch staff, facilities provide a student experiences and future networking superior to the 2nd tier universities. With only one exception (because of attitude) they were outstanding engineers. I’m pretty certain that other top-notch schools like Stanford, Berkely or Cal Tech are very competitive but none of their grads except one from Berkeley chose to leave California to work with us.
I went to three different universities. The competitiveness varied but all three covered the same material with fully qualified professors. The supposedly most prestigious research driven of the three was in my opinion the worst from a student’s learning point of view.
I worked with several MIT grads and had several MIT student summer interns. It was obvious that MIT with their top-notch staff, facilities provide a student experiences and future networking superior to the 2nd tier universities. With only one exception (because of attitude) they were outstanding engineers. I’m pretty certain that other top-notch schools like Stanford, Berkely or Cal Tech are very competitive but none of their grads except one from Berkeley chose to leave California to work with us.
I went to three different universities. The competitiveness varied but all three covered the same material with fully qualified professors. The supposedly most prestigious research driven of the three was in my opinion the worst from a student’s learning point of view.
My sister is a rocket scientist in Utah. A while back the company she worked for decided to make a “commitment to excellence” and only hire engineers from prestigious schools. She said the Ivy league engineers didn’t perform any better than the ones they had been hiring from Utah State and Montana State, and not only that, the engineers from Utah State and Montana State were more likely to stick around after the first year so in some ways they were actually better.
RAMcN writes,
When youngest daughter was accepted to MIT many years ago, they sent out a sophisticated marketing package with the overall theme of “don’t worry about how expensive we are the results are worth it” (my words). Lots of statistics about their students’ accomplishments. But on her overnight visit, she didn’t feel comfortable with the intense pressure the students she met felt they were under. She went elsewhere much to my chagrin but it didn’t seem to hurt her. At a slightly less prestigious school she excelled continued to grad school and has done very well economically.
Same thing with my genius younger brother. He opted for RPI over MIT and graduated something like 5th in his class. He also graduated debt-free despite significant student loans since RPI forgave a portion of your loans each semester if you maintained a high-enough GPA. Of course, this way way back in the 1970’s. so your mileage may vary today.
intercst
All the rules of branding apply. Top rated schools attract the best employers and students. They can also charge more.
Gilder, in “Wealth And Poverty” commented on the fundamental laziness of HR people, their tendency to use shortcuts to sift through the resumes they receive. One shortcut he offered, that produced a lot of pushback in my grad school class, was the shortcut of automatically tossing the resumes of women, using the excuse that women were merely killing time until they got married, and quit to raise a family, so offering them a career path was a waste of time.
As you say, “branding” could also be a shortcut. Take the engineering graduate from U of M, or Cal Tech? The quicker the HR guy makes the decision, the sooner he can hit the golf course.
Notice the paucity of universities on that list that are known for their football program? Notre Dame, Rice, and Duke, rank mid-pack or below. There are no Michigan universities on that list, but the highest paid state employee is the Michigan State football coach (fifth highest paid coach in Shinyland), second highest is the U of M football coach (12th highest paid nationally), and third highest paid is the football coach at Whatsamatta U. All three of those universities are ranked higher nationally for their football team, then they are ranked academically. Apparently, Michigan is the go-to place if you are looking for lunks that like to crash into each-other, because that seems to be where the resources, and hype, are concentrated.
Steve
Ormonth writes,
Baruch College, the business school of CUNY (City University of New York), where I go my MBA
https://universityhq.org/best-colleges/cuny-bernard-m-baruch……
Baruch College Grad’s Mid Career Salary is $107,100 which would put them at #2, displacing every school except for MIT which is about 3% higher.
That Forbes list is for Bachelors degrees. If you’re comparing CUNY Business School to an MIT Sloan MBA it comes up far short.
The MIT Sloan MBA 10-year average salary is $171,000/yr.
https://www.thestreet.com/investing/stocks/these-15-graduate…
intercst
As of 2018, CUNY is the United States’ largest urban public university, with an enrollment of over 274,000 students.
https://blog.prepscholar.com/best-cuny-schools
Baruch College has the highest freshman retention rate of any CUNY school at 88%.
Although the campus has limited housing and space, it makes up for this with its impressive 17-story Newman Vertical Campus building. Over 170 student clubs and organizations are available here, as well as 35+ majors in fields such as business, international affairs, art, and science.
Students have praised Baruch for its value, academics, diversity, and student life. Many have noted, however, that Baruch has a strong business lean, so if you’re not planning to major in business, you might prefer a different atmosphere.
Acceptance Rate: 43%
Tuition per Year: $7,462 (in-state), $15,412 (out-of-state)
Undergraduate Enrollment: 12,091
The total enrollment, both undergraduate and graduate, is 19,740 students (making the graduate enrollment 7649 or 39%). The full-time enrollment at CUNY Bernard M Baruch College is 13,201 and the part-time enrollment is 6,539 (the route I took to get my MBA).
% of Students in Campus Housing: 2%
Popular Majors: Accounting, finance, business
I guess I could try to find the splintering of the student body into income tranches, but, to be honest, the effort reaches the point of diminishing returns. It’s not that I couldn’t get admitted to MIT (I was accepted by all seven schools I applied to as an undergrad), at the time it didn’t make sense for me to head out of town. After I got married (during my junior year), started a business and switched to night school, grad school at MIT would have been impossible. That said, the night courses were generally taught by “professors” who were moonlighting executives working as heads of their departments at Fortune 500 corporations, and the content had an emphasis on pragmatism.
Anyhow, it must have done some good because my wages tended to be “substantially” higher than the school’s average (but I guess some SOB has to be the one to break the curve 
Jeff
intercst noted his brother went to RPI over MIT
RPI, MIT, WPI, and many other excellent engineering/math/computer engineering/astrophysics, et came out in the top 25.
I considered MIT, Stevens, Rutgers, Lehigh…applied to first 3. Accepted at rest. Went to RPI. Had scholarship that covered half of tuition. Graduated with $3000 in student debt.
Living at home and commuting to Stevens would have been cheaper but I wanted away from home.
However, the times have changed. tuition went from $850/yr to $1350/yr in 4 years in the 1960s. In my first year out with $3000 student debt, my first job paid $9250 a year. More after. Paid off student debt in 18 months, no sweat, along with used car.
Now, tuition is $56K plus room and board ($20-30K) . A year. Starting salaries maybe $100K. Probably a bit less. Even with half help, say, half scholarship, you can rack up a LOT of debt.
I recall 3 or 4 of my fellow classmates having a free ride - big scholarships - but from low income families. My roommate had a 3.8 GPA in physics. One of my lab partners was the first to graduate with a perfect 4.0 in 30 years.
You had to work. No easy classes and a lot of folks working toward high grades to keep their scholarships and no more than 15% of the class got A’s back then (4.0). The graduating average my year was 2.3 GPA. One third of students didn’t make it to graduation - dropped out for one reason or other - decided to do something different, transferred to easier school, etc.
Back then, you flunk out of college Uncles Sam would immediately send you a mandatory notice of ‘free’ vacation in Vietnam routing out the enemy.
My nephew went RPI in the 1980s. Doing very very well. $170K plus a year.
t
When youngest daughter was accepted to MIT many years ago, they sent out a sophisticated marketing package with the overall theme of “don’t worry about how expensive we are the results are worth it” (my words). Lots of statistics about their students’ accomplishments. But on her overnight visit, she didn’t feel comfortable with the intense pressure the students she met felt they were under. She went elsewhere much to my chagrin but it didn’t seem to hurt her. At a slightly less prestigious school she excelled continued to grad school and has done very well economically.
Your daughter made the right decision. First of all, all the hype about how the results are worth it wouldn’t have applied if she had to drop out. Given all the stories I’ve read about the pressure at MIT, it’s a miracle that anyone makes it through.
Second of all, the message of “If you do X, you have it made!” is a toxic one. It promotes snobbery and entitlement. Who wants to be in an environment full of people who have bought into it? Those people have harder time taking responsibility and being proactive. It’s short-term motivational and long-term demotivational.
One problem with the statistics based on the average member of the group is the assumption that joining the group causes you to automatically become the average member. Many of those in the bottom quarter at MIT would have been at or near the top of the class elsewhere. (And of course, given the nonlinearity of things, some people would have fared worse elsewhere than at MIT.)
Another problem with statistics is that implies that success is largely a matter of riding the coattails of other people with the same profile rather than creating one’s own coattails. In reality, there’s NOTHING automatic about success. Life is full of uphill battles no matter which path one takes. One can trade in uphill battles for better ones, but the only way to avoid uphill battles is a “game over” scenario. The local cemetery is a place full of people who are finished with uphill battles. Given that, I’d prefer to never be finished with uphill battles.
Ormont writes,
I guess I could try to find the splintering of the student body into income tranches, but, to be honest, the effort reaches the point of diminishing returns…
I agree. Backing up a claim of “factfulness” often takes some effort.
intercst
Second of all, the message of “If you do X, you have it made!” is a toxic one. It promotes snobbery and entitlement.
Over the years, I have peeked at joining the “University Club” - one of NYC’s exclusive posh environments. (https://www.universityclubny.org/)
In the past, the had a list of fairly exclusive schools that one had to graduate in order to qualify (Interestingly, my MBA from Baruch -which was a walk in the park for me - would have qualified, but my engineering degree - which was about as much fun as eating broken glass -was from the “wrong” school).
Anyhow, when considering how to answer this thread, yesterday I peeked at the revised requirements:
https://www.universityclubny.org/files/UC%20Club%20Welcome%2…
On the surface, they seem to made entrance easier:
An earned Baccalaureate degree from an accredited college or university
And then, they hit you with the zingers:
• A Proposal for Admission form submitted to the Admissions Office signed and completed by the candidate and a proposer and a seconder
• For candidates under 32: three (3) additional letters are required from current Club members
• For candidates 33 and over: five (5) additional letters are required from current Club members.
• All letters written should convey a strong social connection to the candidate.
So basically, if you are not related to, or hanging out with, the members of the club, you can’t join. That’s one way to keep it in the family.
Years ago, I was a member of a contractor’s association where the “social chairman” of the year would arrange a Christmas party in one or another of the clubs a member belonged to. One year it would be an Italian rod and gun club near Little Italy (complete with basement firing range). Another year it was the in the New York Yacht Club - an unbelievably opulent place dating back to when a yacht was a hundred foot-plus sloop. Yet another one was the “Metropolitan Club” on 5th Avenue where, under the watchful gazes of guys like JP Morgan and JD Rockefeller, that these guys are probably rolling over in their graves as this place has never had so many Blacks, Jews and Italians walking down their halls since they opened the gate to their carriages.
New York City is such a diverse place that there is a specific club for each group.
Jeff