How the world works.
Interesting to note that MIT doesn’t even have “legacy admissions”, much less a special curriculum for the laggards.
intercst
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If you have the high school chops to get into MIT, the university is easier because the teaching is elegant.
How the world does not work…elsewhere.
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I was at Harvard from 1969 to 1975 (did B.S. and B.A. degrees simultaneously, and took a year long leave to do politics) and can vouch for much of what is told in the video. I was a member of the Spee Club, which was one of the not dumb quasi-democratic final clubs (JFK was its first “Irish” member), but it also had its share of stunningly stupid dummies. I was picked for membership because two of my Freshman friends were legacies of the club founders, and wanted me in the club as a pet wild man.
One of the real dummies in the club was a sweet guy (it was his great grandad who had made all the money) that I often dragged from his collapsed vomitous state in the billiards room to a shower when I arrived at the club for breakfast. One December he came to me with ten tiny exquisite silver lockets stuffed with cocaine, presents for his existing and prospective girl friends. He was unhappy that the lockets would not stay shut. I explained that they were of such high quality that the grains of cocaine powder got into the fine hinges and prevented them from closing completely. He reacted as if I had unveiled the deepest secrets of the universe. That March he died when an old fire escape he was clowning around on (jumping and hooting like an angry ape) broke its rusted bolts and fell off the building…
I learned more at MIT classes (an agreement between the MIT and Harvard hard sciences departments made it easy to take courses in either place), but Harvard taught me the USAian class system and had staggeringly great classes in history, poetry, and politics.
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I wonder how many universities have abandoned affirmative action but retained legacy admissions in favor of rich white males?
Slightly OT, but Edx offers lectures by professors from Harvard, MIT and other reputable universities that can be audited for free. The biology lectures from MIT were first rate but they were so advanced that I gave up after about a few dozen lectures when they were discussing the molecular structures of folding proteins.
The Great Courses Plus company offers an annual unlimited subscription to lectures by professors at reputable universities for $150 that I have found to be enlightening and comprehensible. They have a wide array of topics ranging from hard sciences to literature to philosophy to whatever.
You may want to give them a look if you are older and are interested in continuing to learn.
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I can’t say if this is true now, but this was not my experience at all. I came from a rural high school which provided horrendous preparation for drinking from the MIT firehose. The experience was more survival of the fittest. At the time, your entire freshman year was graded either Pass or No Record only to help students adjust. Still, the number who struggled to clear that bar was noticeable. That policy is still in place, though now just your first semester rather than the whole first year.
I also had what might sound like the “privilege” of taking Economics classes taught by Nobel winner Paul Krugman. He was the worst lecturer I’ve ever seen hands down. He mostly recited passages almost word for word from his self-authored textbook. The vibe was pretty much distaste that he had to lower himself to speaking with mere students. And he wasn’t the only lecturer like that. The teaching component was a side-gig to research, book writing, and speaking appearances for many professors there.
Please understand nothing above is complaining or criticizing. It is simply providing a different perspective on MIT being “easier” or “elegant”. Using other terms from upthread, there’s nothing legacy or laggard built into MIT’s system. It’s a tough school to both enter and exit.
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Yes, and your initial experience of drinking from a “firehose” is exactly right. I had the good fortune that my 3 years older brother was in the first freshmen class at UC San Diego’s Revere College, a deliberate attempt to combine the qualities of Caltech with MIT in a public university. He warned me about the firehose experience, and taught me some skills and attitudes to get me ready.
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What you’ve described are dour professors. You are ascribing their productivity as a motive to be dour. Life doesn’t work that way.
When someone is dour don’t take it personally.
Mit is next to impossible to get into. Other university classroom presentations are weaker and involve more busywork. That is why mit lessons are more elegant. I have looked at video classroom lessons.
The firehose at 18 has to do with the brain’s maturation. College is demanding and not all brains have the full capacity needed at age 18.
LOL. Did you intentionally mean to lob so many softballs in one post?
Nope. That’s not what I described at all. What I described is what it looks like when a research-driven professor fills his or her teaching quota at a research-driven university by going through the motions in the classroom. While that is indeed a personal observation, I in no way take it personally. It’s simply part of the gig at MIT and not an uncommon occurrence regardless of major. Making the sausage is sometimes messy, which is very much how life works. It’s just that those lectures tend not to make it online.
Well, you certainly have me there. I’ve admittedly never watched an MIT video classroom lesson. I’ve only attended hundreds of them live and been invited to speak at several more since graduating including work as an alumni advisor to current students. But maybe I’m just using the wrong research track for my information. Could you post a link?
Thanks for the tip! I wish you were around to tell me at the time. Luckily, my capacity held up anyway. To help any aspiring MIT students reading this thread, what is the optimal age and brain capacity they should shoot for as an incoming freshman?
Since you didn’t seem to understand the first time, this hopefully provides more clarity. As you said, MIT is next to impossible to get into. It’s also understandably hard to earn a degree. Based on the current students I’ve interacted with as recently as a couple months ago, there is still little that’s easy or elegant about it no matter how many curated videos you have watched online.
While I appreciate your right to a hot take, that doesn’t mean your take is not open for further discussion.You keep flippantly referencing how life and the world works, but if you haven’t experienced MIT life you might want to sit this world out.
**On a more serious note, I would highly recommend @iampops5’s suggestion of checking out the online Edx lectures. There is some great content there for expanding one’s horizons.
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Actually my BIL is a physics professor with MIT, sister is in HR with MIT, and her son a graduate of MIT.
You can sit wherever you want. I also have some engineering but am made to be an artist. The regime for engineering at any of the decent or better schools is rigorous. The better the professors are the “easier” it is. MIT did not get its reputation because of bad teaching.
Frankly the professors go to great lengths to prepare their lessons. You are kidding yourself.
Dour is dour. Common stuff.
MIT professors publish and research?(edit do I need to reverse the order of those events?LOL) I had no clue. So you base all motives on that? Interesting. Hundreds of classroom hours figuring out what professors do in their spare time. LOL
If you do not know much about brain development I will leave you to bone up.
Interesting…You do not see conflicts in how you present things.
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You are having a lot of fun. No harm.
As I am sure you are aware, it is extremely rare for any professor in a STEM field in a major research university to be promoted because of excellence in teaching. Teacher of the Decade pales in comparison to the impact of an NIH grant or two. That’s all one needs to know about the quality of undergrad instruction at the big Research Elites.
If one wants excellence in undergraduate teaching, find a small private liberal arts school with no graduate program. The Williams and Amhersts of the world. Will cost a few bucks though.
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LOL again. I didn’t plan on responding, but since my inbox has been popping with this thread today and you’re willing to play along…
Excellent. Please tell them I sincerely appreciate them carrying the torch.
Not at all. Someone else recommended Edx, and I said it was worthwhile. That person also said the “biology lectures from MIT were first rate but they were so advanced that I gave up after about a few dozen.”
My response to you had nothing to do with Edx or even online videos in general. It had to do with your claims about the university being “easier” because of the “elegant” lectures while pontificating about how life and the world work at MIT. Nothing about that Edx review suggests ease or elegance to me once the deeper content hit the screen.
Never said it was bad. Just said it wasn’t “easy” or “elegant” (there’s those pesky claims of yours again). I learned a great deal even from Krugman.
Never said that either. I only stated some deliveries are neither “easy” nor “elegant” no matter how much preparation was done beforehand. (See a trend yet?) In fact, some of them might even come off as…<gasp>…phoned in!
You keep saying this for some reason, but I make no comments on motives since I have no idea. I only presented the perception of a great many in the audience, of which I have every idea since I was a member and still interact with members today.
Every single one of us is 100% the expert on the intent of our message. Our audience is 100% the expert in how it is perceived. If my message is not perceived as intended, that’s on me since I’m the one delivering it in the first place…unless of course your world doesn’t work that way in which case I stand corrected.
In the end, there are so many flaws in your talking points it’s hard to keep up. Rather than try to break them all down, I’ll just leave this here and call it a day. If forced to pick from this limited interaction though, I’d probably say strawman’s your strongest.
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You have misunderstood me. I never said “easy”. I said, “easier”. Easier than what? The other engineering and science schools often do not focus as well at teaching the principles. Learning principles is “easier” than doing busy work. If we must do busy work let it be as a proof of principle. That is elegant. You did not ask what was elegant.
I What is MIT dropout rate?
This also tells us why acceptance rates are incredibly competitive; many attempt to join, but only a handful get in. This could explain why MIT has one of the lowest dropout rates in the country — 99% of first-year students in 2021 returned for their second year.
MIT Graduation Rates
After four years 85% of the cohort graduated.
v UCONN
The freshmen retention rate applies to first-time / full-time students who come back for their second year.
With 93% students making it past their freshmen year, UCONN has freshmen retention rates above the national average.
Nationwide, the average first to second year retention rate is 70.57%.
When looking at just colleges and universities in Connecticut, the average is 72.64%.
As far as professors not paying attention to lecture time preparation and the classroom quality because of the need to publish, I think you are generalizing too much.
We are talking mainly about scientific minds. Engineers are notorious for being odd bods. It might be a generalization, but it must be overlooked along with being dour. The publishing of results should not be read as poor social skills and possibly personal affect in the classroom.
Students endlessly say that. It hurts them. It wastes their time. You are not a student. If your kids come to you complaining about teachers and professors you will find that shaky stuff.
You were generalizing a lot. You were using the wrong definitions. That is why you could not keep up. Easier has a different definition from easy. Elegant is principles over paperwork. I hope by defining basic terms you will see what is going on in this conversation.
Besides I did crack a few jokes at your expense. I doubt you got that.
Ha! This really is fun.
You’re right. I didn’t see any jokes at my expense. I just thought you were being pompous. I’ll have to go back and read it again. I must have confused your humor with inanity.
See, there’s that darn intent and perception thing again. Must be all that extra brain development you’ve stored up. I hope I can keep up if I give it a second pass. 
Returning full circle to what started all this in the first place, here is what you said. I appreciate you taking the time to educate me. I clearly didn’t understand your subsequent paragraphs-long definitions of “easier” and “elegant” that somehow include cosmic side trips into principles, busy work, the notorious odd-bodity of engineers, and the nebulous constructs of universities as you envision them. I was simply using the definitions the lesser 99% of us understand on a daily basis. I can definitely see now how that gives you unassailable expertise about an institution at which you have neither attended nor instructed yet keep prattling on about.
I also misunderstood your double use above of the blanket word “is” when you really meant “could be considered this way as long as you accept the vague, ambiguous, and fuzzy way I’m defining everything as I go along so it sounds untouchable now that I’ve dug myself a hole I can’t seem to get out of.”
Shame on me for generalizing on your generalizations. Thanks for clearing that up.
Lastly, I wholeheartedly apologize for this statement. I now understand it was the fallacy of equivocation you were using. I had no idea you were so advanced even your fallacies are so uncommonly superior they reside outside the top 20.
If it helps at all, I’ll just leave the common-folk definition of that fallacy here so you know how the hoi polloi are using it:
“The fallacy of equivocation occurs when a key term or phrase in an argument is used in an ambiguous way, with one meaning in one portion of the argument and then another meaning in another portion of the argument .”
I bow in deference. It’s admirable to watch someone throw themselves into the mower blades this many times in a row and not even feel a nick. It’s like Twitter without the character count. Are you on there? If so, please shoot me your handle. I’d love to follow along to further figure out your humor. You must be a hoot when it finally clicks.
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Yes easier does not mean easy.
It has taken a lot of ink on your part to get there.
At least you stopped disagreeing.
That’s your best bolt?!? 
How disappointing after spending so much time trying to position yourself as someone who knows what you’re talking about.
Last words on the topic from me…
Oh, wait…those are your words. You made an authoritative, declarative statement on a complex subject that is simply not accurate. Doubling down with off-topic and mostly irrelevant rambling when a different perspective is floated doesn’t make that initial statement any more accurate.
Sorry to break it to you, but you dug your own grave on this one. RIP.
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You have stopped disagreeing. But my you do go on. If you study fallacies more carefully you will find your own.
Do you have more important things to discuss? Where you went to school or now teach is getting boring. All the criticisms won’t make you more important than everyone else you meet or work along side with.
You were worried you were called lazy. That was not my intent. You needn’t worry. Defensive much?
Easy = Lazy? Your mind seems to spread such definitions where none were stated or implied.
I keep rising from the dead. These keyboard wars kill innocent people repeatedly.