Defending against Chinese manufacturing prowess

As a communist command economy, China is able to target strategic areas of manufacturing in a way the U.S. free market can’t. China has immense manufacturing prowess already and is targeting clean tech.

America Is Losing the Green Tech Race to China

by David Wallis-Wells, The New York Times, May 22, 2024

On May 14, President Biden announced a major escalation of the country’s emerging climate trade war with China, raising existing tariffs on Chinese electric vehicles to 100 percent — a unilateral quadrupling. …

In 2019, Chinese E.V. exports totaled $400 million; by 2023, they had reached $34 billion, a precipitous 85-fold increase and enough to help make the country, as recently as five years ago an afterthought in global auto exports, today the world’s top exporter of all cars. Nearly 60 percent of all the world’s E.V.s are now sold in China, which is home to three of the world’s four biggest E.V. manufacturers…

When you move upstream from final products into the green-tech supply chain, China dominates even more. It produces 84 percent of the world’s solar modules, according to a recent report by BloombergNEF. It produces 89 percent of the world’s solar cells and 97 percent of its solar wafers and ingots, 86 percent each of its polysilicon and battery cells, 87 percent of its battery cathodes, 96 percent of its battery anodes, 91 percent of its battery electrodes and 85 percent of its battery separators. The list goes on…

After test-driving a dozen vehicles at Beijing’s big annual automotive show, electric-vehicle analyst Kevin Williams thought he had his answer: Chinese E.V.s were simply better and more compelling than their European and American counterparts, he said. “Now that I’ve seen a glimpse of what’s going on in China,” he wrote, “the Western manufacturers, particularly the American ones, don’t seem like they’re trying at all.” [end quote]

https://www.wsj.com/economy/the-u-s-finally-has-a-strategy-to-compete-with-china-will-it-work-ce4ea6cf?mod=hp_major_pos2#cxrecs_s

The U.S. Finally Has a Strategy to Compete With China. Will It Work?

The strategy is a three-legged stool consisting of tariffs, security restrictions and tech subsidies

By Greg Ip, The Wall Street Journal, May 20, 2024


The strategy is a three-legged stool. The first consists of subsidies to build a viable technology manufacturing sector, from clean energy to semiconductors. The second is tariffs on Chinese imports that threaten those efforts. The third is restrictions on access to money, technology and know-how that could help China compete. A fourth leg, a unified economic front with allies, remains unrealized… [end quote]

U.S. Seeks to Join Forces With Europe to Combat Excess Chinese Goods

Treasury Secretary Janet L. Yellen warned that China’s industrial strategy posed a global threat that requires a united response.
By Alan Rappeport and Liz Alderman, The New York Times, May 21, 2024

Treasury Secretary Janet L. Yellen said on Tuesday that the United States and Europe needed to work together to push back against China’s excess industrial capacity, warning that a wave of cheap Chinese exports represents a grave threat to the global economy… [end quote]

Only a couple of decades ago economists cheered for globalization. International sourcing provided Americans with a flood of cheap products which helped maintain our standard of living with minimal inflation. At the same time, the American manufacturing sector was gutted and millions of well-paid jobs were lost.

Capitalism rests on a foundation of supply and demand. Investors will pour capital into companies with a competitive advantage. The provider of superior goods at a lower price will gain market share. China’s experience of low-cost manufacturing over the past 2 decades appears overwhelming.

The “3-legged stool” of subsidies to businesses that can’t attract free-market capital, tariffs and barriers to needed technology is pretty pathetic. It’s just as pathetic that the U.S. has an official policy of encouraging Europe to do the same. This defensive policy is meant to give protection to domestic manufacturers while they ramp up their capacity and competence. There’s plenty of capital in the market but it’s not being effectively invested to gain competitive advantage.

I don’t see how this can progress well for our Macro economy. By definition, any policy that blocks or adds tariffs to the low-price supplier will be inflationary. And there’s no guarantee that the American suppliers will succeed in the marketplace without expensive taxpayer subsidies as well as consumer tariff subsidies.

Wendy

4 Likes

** First Solar FSLR soars to the top of Wednesday’s S&P 500 leaderboard, +16.8% to its highest in nearly 16 years, on news that China’s main solar industry body called for an end to a profit-slashing price war.**

https://seekingalpha.com/news/4109493-solar-shares-surge-as-china-plans-measures-against-price-war

Andy

1 Like

We certainly could be a leader in the green tech. But you have half the country who does not trust people who actually know what they are talking about when it comes to climate and energy. We are going to get left behind because of this.

This could be a Manhattan Project. This could be an Apollo Project, or another DARPANet/Internet. Instead… :frowning:

4 Likes

We old phartz remember when it was MITI that was the boogyman for deciding which sectors Japanese industry would concentrate on. Their focused approach proved more effective than the Shiny non-policy of CEO empire building, short term outlook, and financial gimmicks.

Steve

We can do this, but in the long run, it is a failed strategy.

We do this now with our military preparedness. That is all cost.

For China, their push into EVs is now all cost. Expect almost all of those companies to fail regardless of Xi’s support.

The NTY piece is political. It is a ploy to downgrade Biden and build him up at a key point before voting. If the paper only built him up there would be no impact when it mattered. Timing matters.

The EU allowing China to flood the car market with cheap EVs was part of that strategy. Those EVs are not selling. The Europeans like to get what they pay for. While some reviews of the EVs are good, most likely those cars are junk. One reason the parts will not be available for most repairs.

TSLA’s manufacturing is best and new open box automation is coming.

Pardon my ignorant, what is open box automation? When is it coming?

Unboxed!

The Captain

5 Likes

It is interesting is that many Americans are cheering for China to succeed and kill Tesla because of their hatred for Musk.

1 Like

Um, Tesla has abandoned unboxed, just like the have abandoned gigacasting, just like they abandoned the low-price model, just like they thought they were abandoning charging thanks to their erratic but headline grabbing CEO. Who, incidentally is demanding to double his stake in the company or he won’t let it proceed with AI inside the corporate walls, on which the current Tesla stock value depends.

https://insideevs.com/news/718125/tesla-single-piece-gigacasting/

Some people continue to swoon at the feet of the boys genius, but it’s clear to others that he is woefully unprepared to run a business entering its mature phase. The phrase “adults in the room” comes to mind, although it was coined for Facebook and others a silicon-generation ago.

I would love to see any American company beat the Chinese, but that seems unlikely. It’s surely not going to be any of the Big 3 and it looks increasingly like Tesla won’t be the long term victor here either.

3 Likes

False.

The Captain
9 8 7 6 5 4

3 Likes

While that is technically true, the US has subsidized industry for generations, just in different ways. Other countries have complained about it for at least 100 years but now we’re getting a serious taste of it and we don’t like it.

Whether it was the US government rationalizing the airline industry with guaranteed mail contracts (even if there was no mail to fly) or the wholesale support of NASA and thereby the satellite, communications, and radio and television industries; the giving away of vast swathes of land to railroad companies, the formation of land grant colleges for education of farmers (or the more direct price crop supports), the obvious subsidies of internet creation, the endless cost+ contracts to Boeing & defense contractors, the bailouts of Ford, General Motors and Chrysler, not to mention housing, healthcare, and basic research of nascent industries (for which the government receives virtually nothing in return while private gains flow to individuals who take it and run), to weather forecasting which the government gives away free every day and countless companies profit from, from AccuWeather it every local all TV station in the country …

But we’ve entered an era where the freeeee marketeers have mantra-ized the phrase “picking winners and losers”, as though that’s somehow evil. (The example of Solyndra comes to mind, even though the portfolio of which it was a part was a raging success.)

Now we’ve come to the point where the Chinese government is, ahem, picking winners and losers. They’ve crushed the solar panel market. They’re about to do it with EVs. They’ve taken over fine electronics assembly, rare earths refining, lithium and battery production among others, and now we’re upset about it.

I remember when a famous President said “Government isn’t the solution, government is the problem” and we’ve been off the racetrack ever since. Bah. Wake up kids, government is not so evil after all. In fact it seems to, if the opener in this thread is correct, to be a “new and different” idea we might want to explore more fully.

5 Likes

That Captain is why most people can’t understand Musk. When he makes a mistake he changes his mind and moves in another direction. People then yell and scream, hey you made a mistake Musk, not realizing he doesn’t care. Everyone makes mistakes and when you come to realize that it frees your mind and allows you to get further than the people standing around afraid they might be making a mistake.

I want Musk to make mistakes, that is how we are going to get further than all the nay sayers on the outside of the herd. The ones who sit around saying you can’t do that yet we are doing that. Great article on the Unboxing Innovation.

Andy

3 Likes

I agree, I wrote about that 24 years ago!

What I understood from Musk’s comments is that the Unboxed method stands. The planning remains but the implementation has been changed to accelerate the introduction of the RoboTaxi. The change is not on account of a mistake as such but the unexpected acceleration of the AI powering FSD with the conversion from heuristics to neural networks. It’s a long chain of events. Let me summarize.

  • The mass market EV, the $25K EV, was going to be built in Mexico but a problem arose…
  • Elon wants the engineers to work at the assembly line but few would want to move to Mexico so the plan was changed to make them in Austin…
  • Accelerated FSD happened but the Unboxed assembly line could not be built in time, so…
  • The $25K EV, or the RoboTaxi, or both, would begin construction on the current assembly lines using some of the Unboxed methods where feasible.

It is important to note that Tesla’s assembly lines are not linear or as linear as the Ford assembly line, they consists of a group of cells that can easily make changes without breaking the flow of production.

To sum up, the first editions of the $25K EV and/or the RoboTaxi will be built with this modified assembly method. Fear mongers prefer to say that Elon keeps making miskates! Par for the course.

The Captain

5 Likes

Right. Musk does not care.

Why listen to people giving useless advise who have never created anything ? Musk has clarity of vision and excellent at execution.
He is taking on impossible tasks and delivering.

Starship launch in next few weeks. Another step to making life multi-planetary

Salty people sulk at progress.

3 Likes

do you have any links? I have never seen that garbage.

The Chinese are beating themselves. We do not need to beat them.

4 Likes