I wonder how the work force in the Orlando area feel about losing these well-paying construction jobs:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/video/peopleandplaces/walt-disney-…
OTFoolish
I wonder how the work force in the Orlando area feel about losing these well-paying construction jobs:
They’re probably fine with it. Apparently the reason for the cancellation is because the local business community pressured Brightline into putting a stop at the Convention Center. That changed the route, so Disney wasn’t interested in the project - but the station will still be constructed, just in a different location. So there’s still going to be just as many well-paying construction jobs as before:
https://wdwnt.com/2022/06/breaking-walt-disney-world-cancels…
Albaby
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Walt,
According to your link, Disney dropped out of the project because Briteline changed the route to add a station at the convention center, and the revised route does not go to Disney Springs.
Norm.
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The Briteline has been a political football for a while. Many assumed that Disney broke with Mears on the Disney Express bus shuttle from the Orlando airport to Disney World resorts because of anticipation that the Briteline would offer guests a more efficient, cost effective transportation option. I think it was just because Disney and Mears could not come to terms on a new contract.
I think Disney would have liked for a mass transit option to Disney Springs, especially if it could have delivered more shoppers and diners to the development. But the Briteline project has been mired in politics for a long time and has been described as one of those civil projects that will be great if it ever gets there.
Fuskie
Who notes on a more positive note, Shanghai Disneyland is set to reopen again as China relaxes Zero Covid restrictions again in Shanghai…
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Yes, the report says the route changed, so the train would not help Disney.
just throwing this out there…anyone suspect the invisible hand of Tallahassee in the route change?
Steve
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Not really, Steve. As I noted before, this project has been a political football long before Florida declared war on Disney World.
Fuskie
Who notes there has long been tension in the Orlando area by businesses who feel Disney (and Universal Studios) sucks revenue away from them as most guests to either resort do not know anything else exists in Orlando, though in fairness, the businesses of Orlando today would not exist without Disney World and Universal Studios…
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Fuskie,
As I noted before, this project has been a political football long before Florida declared war on Disney World.
High speed rail has been a political football everywhere – even in California, where it has produced a line to nowhere.
But realistically, a fully automated express passenger transporter on a dedicated right of way linking the main passenger terminal at Orlando International Airport (MCO), a transportation hub serving Universal Studios and International Drive, a transportation hub serving all of the Disney resorts, a transportation hub serving Lakeland, and the main passenger terminal at Tampa International Airport (TPA) probably would be viable. The only questions are the best technology (conventional rail, maglev/linear induction motor, monorail, etc.) and the appropriate balance of capacity and frequency of service.
Norm.
Viable, yes, from a use case perspective. But with different stakeholders wanting to bring more people to their neck of the woods, and others not wanting it to pass through their backyard, securing land rights and placating everyone was always going to be an uphill battle.
Fuskie
Who supposes Disney World could have felt good enough about its ability to bring in guests that it didn’t need to fight harder, but the Board felt Chapek should have fought harder, they didn’t show it given the contract extension…
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Viable, yes, from a use case perspective. But with different stakeholders wanting to bring more people to their neck of the woods, and others not wanting it to pass through their backyard, securing land rights and placating everyone was always going to be an uphill battle.
Per one of the articles, the City of Orlando very much wanted the route to go by the Convention Center, as did the consortium of independent businesses along that corridor…and Universal obviously has to be thrilled that it now runs by their Epic Universe property. Between the City, the convention center, and Universal, that’s plenty of big local interests that would be pushing for this route as an alternate to the Mouse-preferred route, regardless of whether anyone from Tally got involved.
That said, Disney might want to take a long hard look at the effectiveness of its governmental affairs team in Florida.
Albaby
Fuskie,
But with different stakeholders wanting to bring more people to their neck of the woods, and others not wanting it to pass through their backyard, securing land rights and placating everyone was always going to be an uphill battle.
Railroads have the right of eminent domain to acquire rights of way under federal law, so NIMBY should not be much of a problem.
Of course, that legal detail might dictate use of a technology that would meet the legal definition of a railroad…
Norm.
Norm, I would also note that the brute force use of eminent domain is not without political consequences, so it is usually seen as a last resort mechanism.
Sometimes when governments make decisions not supported by their community, they can face fallout. When the Atlanta Braves moved from downtown north to southern Cobb County, the County Commissioner faced criticism for loading the county with debt to fund a portion of the ballpark construction. The Commissioner was voted out of office and the deal remains controversial, despite a massive upswing in tax revenue that accompanied 4 straight Division Championships and one World Series victory.
Fuskie
Who lives on one end of a road where the city is seeking a massive redesign of the other end to accommodate increased traffic loads, and but the project has been delayed years as they have spent millions buying out property (thanks to TSPLOST - Transportation Special Purpose Local Option Sales Tax) and fighting eminent domain challenges in court…
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Fuskie,
I would also note that the brute force use of eminent domain is not without political consequences, so it is usually seen as a last resort mechanism.
True, but it would be Britebart rather than the government that would be doing it. Voters cannot turn the railroad executives out of office.
Sometimes when governments make decisions not supported by their community, they can face fallout. When the Atlanta Braves moved from downtown north to southern Cobb County, the County Commissioner faced criticism for loading the county with debt to fund a portion of the ballpark construction. The Commissioner was voted out of office and the deal remains controversial, despite a massive upswing in tax revenue that accompanied 4 straight Division Championships and one World Series victory.
I’m with the voters on this. State and local governments should not be in the business of building or subsidizing facilities (a stadium in this case) for private corporations (a professional sports team). That, to me, is a misuse of government resources.
Of course, that’s not to say that state and local governments can’t provide the infrastructure that commercial projects require, such as new or improved roads and other transportation.
Norm.
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Norm, governments, local, state and federal, use taxpayer resources to fund all sorts of projects that are intended to drive higher tax revenues over the long term. It is the kind of R&D investment we expect from our invested companies to produce greater long-term revenue down the road.
In the case of the Braves’ The Battery, the development was an underutilized parcel at the corner of two highways that not only generates massive year-round tax revenue for the county, but also has led to surrounding businesses investing in their own growth, raising the entire community. What voters objected to was that the deal was done in secret and what turned out to be an unfounded fear of massive traffic during games.
In Georgia, extremely generous tax subsidies have turned the state into the biggest television and movie production region next to Hollywood and New York. Atlanta is home to Netflix’s Stranger Things, most of Disney’s Marvel movies, AMC’s The Walking Dead and much more. Not everyone agrees with the approach, but it’s fun seeing the Georgia Peach at the end of movies.
Similarly, the state has aggressively pursued the auto industry, with two new EV production and a battery manufacturing plant under development. And the federal government ploughed millions into the Port of Savannah’s recently completed project to widen its channels to accept larger cargo container ships and increase the amount of shipping to the east coast.
Upon reflection, I do see how it could be Disney’s choice to not fight for a station at Disney Springs. Given the political climate, Disney World could feel like it wasn’t in a position to throw its weight around. The political leaders could also look at it and wonder if by the time construction began, they wouldn’t be on the hook for any financial commitment by Reedy Creek. It could simply be that the uncertainty of the situation led to avoidance.
I expect we will never really know.
Fuskie
Who notes ironically in the case of the auto and battery plants, the deals actually call for the commercial entities to build and pay for related infrastructure improvements as a condition for receiving the long-term tax benefits…
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This move by Disney almost gives validity to Jim Cramer’s recent comment on CNBC that Disney maybe considering another resort in New Mexico because of the business-friendly climate there and the availability of large tracks of relatively cheap land. The average weather in the southern part of that state would also work in favor of a mostly outdoor resort.
Why spend more money in the state of Florida if the government there is no longer friendly to your company?
Walt
This move by Disney almost gives validity to Jim Cramer’s recent comment on CNBC that Disney maybe considering another resort in New Mexico because of the business-friendly climate there and the availability of large tracks of relatively cheap land.
A third park in the US, to increase capacity, would suit me fine. Disney’s plan of controlling overcrowding by escalating prices to a “market clearing price” has always rubbed me the wrong way. Little kids don’t understand pricing, and they are the ones driving their parents to make the trip, regardless of cost. The pricing policy has the smell of Disney profiteering off parent’s devotion to their kids. Not a good look for a company that built it’s reputation on being “family friendly”.
Steve
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