Rather than relitigating 1948, I would suggest that, if Israel has decided to drive all the Pals out of Gaza, Hamas “surrendering” will not make any difference.
Steve
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Israel still has not offered one day of peace since 2007. Israel in that time has wanted genocide. People think it is all Hamas’s fault? Laughable. Gullible.
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Israel is fighting to kill or eliminate all Palestinians from Gaza and West Bank.
That will never happen!
Hamas will never find out if there could be peace. Okay.
In fairness, the stated goal of Hamas is to eliminate Israel. They’re not exactly offering peace, either.
That’s what makes this whole mess a cluster-f. Neither side is willing to accept the existence of the other in exchange for peace. So we will not have peace.
The best we can do from this side of the Atlantic is to stop arming the combatants. I’m sure that won’t stop them from fighting, but when they’re reduced to sticks and stones, at least the ordinary civilians - who are the real victims here - will have a fighting chance to keep living.
This is a proxy war between the US and Russia.
The American public demands a kind of purity that does not really exist in America.
Hamas’ explicitly stated objective is to eliminate Israel. Please advise how you would negotiate with them. Or what ???
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When did I say to negotiate with them? Or do whatever you are including in “or what”?
In this particular case, it appears that Israel is far better armed than Hamas. As I’ve said before, I have no problem with Israel mounting a few attacks on whatever hardware Hamas has available. Degrade the enemy’s capabilities - a long established strategy.
Then stop. Keep an eye on Hamas, and be prepared to take some highly targeted actions when the opportunity presents itself.
Will Hamas attack again in that setting? Probably. But the process of degrade and monitor can continue for a long time without generating the pushback Israel is getting now.
Unfortunately, that ship has sailed. That option is no longer available.
Like I said before, the next best thing to do as an outsider is to stop arming the combatants. No negotiations necessary to do that.
–Peter
I think Israel probably believes that’s what they’ve been doing for the last fifteen years or so. Degrading and monitoring Hamas, so that they can’t do anything serious to Israel. The problem with that strategy is that: i) it also generates pushback; and ii) if you screw it up, and end up missing a capability they develop, it can be catastrophic.
Only if you’re indifferent as to who wins. Iran, for example, wants Hamas to win - they want Hamas to destroy Israel if they can, and damage/draw resources away if they can’t. That’s why Iran provides Hamas with material support and resources.
Historically, the U.S. has wanted Israel to be able to defend itself against Hamas and Hezbollah and any other regional aggressors. We can always stop taking action towards that goal, but one of the consequences is that those other parties might have a better chance at actually destroying Israel, over the intermediate- to long-term.
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Israeli goal of killing or getting Palestinians out of Gaza and West Bank will lead to more conflict with Arab nations and other regional nations. Israel is playing into the hands of their enamies in the region. The conflict will never end and Israel is outnumbered.
Under the surface Israel had the pushback before anything happened.
Yet Israel also has the green lights. Meaning SA and others are still sending oil to Israel or at least to intermediaries. There is no Opec threat to shut the West off from oil. There were major talks with SA ignoring the Palestinians.
Pushback? Not really just appeasing the Arab populaces when who really cares?
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Regardless of what Israel does, the conflict will never end and they will always be outnumbered. That’s the point. Hamas, Hezbollah, and other regional actors (especially Iran) do not only (or even primarily) have as their goal the creation of a Palestinian state - their goal is to destroy Israel. Destroying Hamas, if Israel can do it, makes strategic and tactical sense for them.
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Israel is going further than destroying Hamas. Israel is driving the Gazans out. Over 70% of the homes in Gaza are in ruins. At least 80% of the bombs have hit empty buildings.
I do not support that. Or I did not. But it is a resolution to this. Hamas and the Gazans are not offering any resolution.
Hamas is offering repeated wars.
Israel sees not having Gaza on its border as a better alternative.
SA and OPEC are keeping up the oil supplies Israel needs. That might be indirect but it fully continues.
Old Arab saying, “I fight with my brother till my cousin comes along”. In this case, Iran is the cousin and Israel is the brother. My Y chromosome is closer to the Palestinian’s Y than anyone else’s. There are several Greater Syrian states. Other than religious and some cultural differences Israelis are also Syrian tribesmen very often. There are Palestinian Jews.
The world has an odd relationship with immigrants. The Sephardic Jewish majority in Israel is not really immigrants but displaced Arab Jews. Yes, some historically traveled into Spain and then S. America. The first Jews in the US colonies, New Amsterdam, were from Brazil and Sephardic.
LOL - Israel will have to reconstruct all of Gaza for the Palestinians!
Possibly but do not bank on it.
It would be EU money.
Meanwhile no homes for over one year people will simply have to leave.
It would be interesting if Gazans tried somewhere to sue for damages. The war was begun by the Gazans. You can say Hamas okay but it is Gazans who brought this down. Yeah Israel has given them no break. Gazans gave Israel no break.
Israel is not reliant on Arab nations for its oil supply, utilizing a versatile network of suppliers. As indicated by Kpler, a data analytics company, Israel has been importing approximately 220,000 barrels of crude oil daily since mid-May, with its primary sources being two Muslim countries, namely Kazakhstan and Azerbaijan. Additionally, West African nations, particularly Gabon, have been significant contributors to Israel’s oil imports. Beyond this, Israel has diversified options for oil procurement, including the United States, a close ally, and Brazil, both of which have seen increased exports to the global market.
Fair
In the past, OPEC has threatened or shut off supplies to the West. There is no threat this time.
I do not see your point. How does that destroy Israel?
US and UK are making thinly veiled threats to the Houthis. Would Iran retaliate for an attack on the Houthis by mining the Persian Gulf, or taking potshots at tankers?
Steve
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It doesn’t. I was talking about Israel destroying Hamas, if they can do it.
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