Europe is dying

Europe is dying economically and politically. Their share the world’s trade is declining year on year. Industry is being driven away by high energy costs and impossible ‘green’ targets. Trump is threatening to leave Nato as the USA has more important things to worry about (China?). Economic growth is flatlining. Not looking a good place to be at the moment, at least not for the native population.

The Continent is stuck on a path of disastrous decline. Only a full-blown crisis can save it now

https://archive.is/7Td6S

Trump sums up how many see us:

“Europe is not doing a good job in many ways … I know the smart [leaders in Europe] . I know the stupid ones … They talk too much and they’re not producing … And if it keeps going the way it’s going … many of those countries will not be viable countries any longer … Most European nations, they’re decaying … I think they’re weak.”

There is increasing talk of Russia attacking European countries if he ‘wins’ in Ukraine. Europeans do not spend enough on their own defence, relying on the USA to protect them while running massive welfare programmes. Some countries like Germany and Poland are rapidly rearming, others are not.

As Trump tries to negotiate Ukraine peace deal, European leaders sound alarm that Russia could target their countries next

https://www.wsj.com/world/europe/after-a-generation-of-peace-europe-tells-its-people-to-prepare-for-war-ba2a1a88?gaa_at=eafs&gaa_n=AWEtsqclx5HO2WAIEDz-kUNyBZw1NVCYDQ3LL923GWyeKYNy5QUjL42cPYYm7Dxtjtc%3D&gaa_ts=694160ec&gaa_sig=vsvjHCO3O-_PdtE0jhYZ0zS5KdV-qSwcAFyRO5GbRFT0_gK4ilAtr8yLzgJ-GZM_1Ni3spypnRgtLvcAyp4agw%3D%3D

Besides all of this millions from mainly the third world head to Europe every year:

Given the amount of US investment in Europe can Trump risk destabalizing Europe further by pulling out of Nato?

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Yes, we should always consider what such a deep analytical mind says.

Pete

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Trump is like Marmite - you either love it or hate it.

Whaever Trump is he could make life a lot harder for Europe.

US investment in Europe is massive, $4 trillion in 2023 alone. Would he dare risk this:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/188579/united-states-direct-investments-in-europe-since-2000/?srsltid=AfmBOorwiqIcAHVWEH_mad-CsR3G7_pl65jFx8-neSshiCzd_SHWqDPp

Well, it is hard to see Europe as flourishing. Economically, it was on a par with the US back in 2010. Since then the US economy (real GDP) has grown by almost 50% while Europe has shown very little growth over the 15 years.

DB2

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Don’t be distracted by who said what. Focus on the substance of the point of view.

Europe has been declining in manufacturing, sure.
Europe has high energy prices, agreed.
Europe does not have a consumerism focus, also true.

If high input costs, low demand(internally AND externally due to high product pricing) and low innovation continue, what will they become?

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The irony is that while Western Europe is mired in all sorts of problems, parts of Eastern Europe are beginning to flourish a few decades after their release from the soviet union. Meanwhile, the threat of a madman (not necessarily Putin, it could also be the next Russian leader, or the one after that) in Russia trying to reconstitute the USSR is mostly towards Eastern Europe.

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Add to this list:
Low birthrates (less than replacement) → shrinking young labor force, growing older population.

Early retirement and generous government subsidies which are fiercely defended by the population.

Growing percentage of immigrants with alien cultures who are not assimilating well, causing political/ cultural backlash.

Wendy

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Here in the UK we are an energy rich country. The Labour government won’t allow any more licences to drill for this power as they pursue what is called a ‘net zero’ policy. This, of course, doesn’t work, so we end up importing power from Norway and the USA.

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This is a growing problem. A lot of young, well educated Brits are leaving. I think that there are a quarter of a million Brits working in Dubai alone. These are being replace by the likes of goat herders from Somalia.

Professor of War in the Modern World from London University advises the security services in the UK on civil unrest/warfare is a well respected authority in the UK. He says that we in the UK we are already in the start of a ‘soft’ civil war and explains how this will develop:

Yeah. This week five men (three Moroccans, an Egyptian and a Syrian) were arrested in Germany for plotting to drive a vehicle into a Christmas market, and the New Year’s Eve celebration on the Champs-Elysees has been cancelled for “security reasons”.

DB2

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Yes.
I lay some of the responsibility of this at the foot of US foreign war adventures of the past 25 years driving refugees to the EU. Syria, Afghanistan & Iraq. Those refugees weren’t driven by seeking new opportunities in the EU but fleeing death and destruction within their home countries. The EU benefits were to be transitional but turned out to be permanent for many of these refugees. Many EU nations has similar or worse debt levels than the USA and no longer can afford such generosity. And thus recent passed hard nose rules and regulations.

https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/eu-countries-agree-positions-new-asylum-migrant-returns-policy-2025-12-08/
EU countries agree positions on new asylum, migrant returns policy

EU countries on Monday agreed their final negotiating positions for several proposed migration laws on new asylum rules, a common EU list of “safe countries of origin” and an EU-wide policy for illegal migrant returns, statements from the Council of the European Union said.

Despite strong criticism from more than 200 organisations, the key elements of the European Commission’s proposals will likely become law.

How DARE the EU refuse to be the dumping ground of refugees!

Under the asylum rules, an EU country will be able to reject an asylum application if the person could have received protection in a country the EU considers safe.

“Denmark and a majority of EU member states have been advocating for asylum processing in safe third countries in order to remove the incentives to embark on dangerous journeys to the EU,” said Rasmus Stoklund, Denmark’s migration minister.

“We - member states - have agreed on a general approach to the revision of the ‘safe third country’ concept, which allows member states to make agreements with safe third countries on asylum processing outside Europe.”

Member states agreed that EU accession candidate countries be designated as “safe” for asylum seekers along with Bangladesh, Colombia, Egypt, India, Kosovo, Morocco and Tunisia.

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Europes major problem seems to be its voters. They demand expensive social services. Taxes are high. Governments struggle to fund them. Economic growth slows. Products become less competitive in global markets.

Where does this all lead? Voters make better choices or the future is more decline.

Pretty much nailed it.

A problem with democracy is that people will always vote for more free stuff. Free stuff is now a way of life for many people, who all have votes:

More than a fifth of working-age adults in the UK are deemed not to be actively looking for work, figures suggest.

The UK’s economic inactivity rate was 21.8% between November and January, marginally higher than a year earlier.

So, we import millions to do the low paid jobs that UK people do not want. This causes further problems as they are not net contributers to the economy. It’s a doom loop that we cannot escape from.

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U.S. multinational enterprises (MNEs) invest in nearly every country, but their investment in affiliates in five countries accounted for more than half of the total U.S. direct investment abroad position at the end of 2024. The position was largest in the United Kingdom ($1,024.6 billion), followed by the Netherlands ($1,012.0 billion) and Luxembourg ($569.6 billion). Singapore ($467.6 billion) and Ireland ($466.8 billion) rounded out the top five.

By industry of the directly owned foreign affiliate, investment was largest in holding companies, which accounted for 47.3 percent of the overall position abroad in 2024. Manufacturing affiliates were second, with 16.0 percent, and finance and insurance affiliates were third, with 14.2 percent, of U.S. investment. By industry of the U.S. parent, investment by manufacturing MNEs accounted for 50.9 percent of the position, followed by MNEs in finance and insurance (15.1 percent).

U.S. MNEs earned income of $601.9 billion in 2024 on their cumulative investment abroad, a 3.8 percent increase from 2023. Income grew the most in finance and insurance, increasing $12.0 billion, or 17.6 percent from 2023.

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Europe’s immigration is not an employment based immigration like US. People from China, India through legal channels, even from mexico, are moving here mainly for employment, even though often they are painted wrongly. OTOH, EU attracts people from easter EU, sub-saharan african countries, where people are bringing lots of challenges with them. Employment, family, education means people are less likely to indulge in political/ cultural wars with natives.

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I am worried about the state of sarcasm in fooldom.

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But either way it is the bottom of the barrel.

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A supply-side economics military industrial complex. Sound familiar?

This is fake news. Europeans (EU and NATO) are rearming. Especially Poland, Finland, Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania. They are the top countries in military expenditures (based on % GDP) currently and their capital cities are the closest to Moscow.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/584088/defense-expenditures-of-nato-countries/#:~:text=Defense%20expenditures%20of%20NATO%20member%20states%20as%20a%20share%20of%20GDP%202025&text=In%202025%2C%20Poland’s%20defense%20spending,2.76%20percent%20in%20this%20year.

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Europe’s immigrants from Eastern EU and Ukraine not bringing any cultural, economic, or political problems to EU.

Many immigrants are from Ukraine.

Many immigrants are employment related in Germany, France, Poland, Italy, Spain, and UK.

EU Countries with Highest Absolute Immigration:

  • Germany: Receives the most immigrants in total numbers, significant for work and integration.

  • Spain: Also sees massive inflows, with high numbers from non-EU countries.

  • Italy: High numbers of immigrants, often from non-EU regions.

  • France: Large immigrant population, with roughly equal inflows from EU and non-EU sources.