Back when people first started talking about electric vehicles, I figured the method of battery charging would go a different direction. I thought it would be something similar to the process shown in the following link, with a short video.
Instead of plugging an electrical cord into the vehicle when the battery gets low, you more quickly just change out the battery, replacing it with a fully charged one. The video in the link shows this being done with a scooter, apparently in Taiwan.
Of course, the batteries in automobiles are much larger and heavier, and would not easily be replaced like that shown above. However, there are some pretty smart engineers out there that could probably figure out a way to change out standardized batteries in a filling station environment. They could use hydraulic jacks to lower and raise the batteries from underneath, or something. The whole thing would be automated, like a drive-through car wash. The driver wouldn’t even need to get out of the car, and the duration of the process would only take as long as filling an ICE vehicle with petrol.
Batteries would need to be standardized between all makes and models, so there wouldn’t need to be Tesla-only filling stations or Nissan or Ford filling stations.
Remember when most service stations had lifts to raise your car for an oil change. Replacing a heavy battery with a well designed lift should be no big deal.
I think you would lease the battery in that case from a battery company. They would own the batteries and take care of them. Otherwise you risk someone swapping yours for one thats near end of service life.
I’ve seen videos of people working on this. I think they know how. It could be like VCR and Betamax. Eventually one style dominates and the others adopt it. But might take a while.
Batteries would need to be standardized between all makes and models, so there wouldn’t need to be Tesla-only filling stations or Nissan or Ford filling stations. – Pete
Difficult to get standardized vehicle architectures. Doubt it would happen.
Beyond that, you have Tesla integrating the battery pack as part of the vehicle structure.
Perhaps just as big a problem is “yuck”. Think of vehicles driving through mud and snow and ice and salt (remember salt and how that could create bigger problems). Do you give each vehicle a spray and wipe down to be sure nothing gums up the works during removal and installation? Contamination would be a significant issue.
What if you’re on a trip and need a battery with XX miles capacity to get to the next point (charging point or destination)? And the swapped in battery isn’t up to par. That would stink, wouldn’t it?
Note we now have more than one battery voltage as well these days.
And, consider the efforts to improve batteries. The better batteries get, the lower the incentive to do swaps.
As owners of Teslas, we feel no need or desire to have such a situation. Most travel is in town but we go on trips and charging isn’t really an issue. We drive for several hours and we stop for bathroom breaks and for meals. We really have to hustle to get food even at a fast food place, eat it and be back to the vehicle before it’s either charged enough… or completely full.
Rob
Former RB and BL Home Fool, Supernova Portfolio Contributor & Maintenance Fool
He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.
What if you’re on a trip and need a battery with XX miles capacity to get to the next point (charging point or destination)? And the swapped in battery isn’t up to par. That would stink, wouldn’t it?
From what I understand, that sort of anxiety is common with today’s EVs, too. Batteries lose their discharge capacity over time, even if they are permanently installed in the vehicles.
From what I understand, that sort of anxiety is common with today’s EVs, too. – Pete
All I have to go by is what I read on that because we have zero range anxiety with our Teslas.
From what I read, all the range anxiety comments (comments about articles) are from those who don’t own an EV. Maybe that’s just a debate between EV lovers and haters, dunno…
But if I were in West Podunk Montana or Flin Flon Manitoba (that’s actually a place…I worked at a summer camp there many years ago when Flin Flon was pretty close to the very end of the road going north) and got a sub-standard battery swap, that might be an issue and a concern.
Rob
Former RB and BL Home Fool, Supernova Portfolio Contributor & Maintenance Fool
He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.
Remember when most service stations had lifts to raise your car for an oil change. Replacing a heavy battery with a well designed lift should be no big deal.
Oil and gas flow. They goes in any vehicle without complaint and conform to the shape of the container.
Batteries, I shouldn’t need to point out, don’t flow. So you have to convince EV automakers to make their batteries “standard” in size and shape, and get them to agree to design their cars so that “battery swap” can be accomplished easily by minimum wage people at thousands of battery swap locations around the country.
If you think you can make this as easy as being a pump jockey, or some sort of DIY transfer, good luck. You see how the person struggles with those motorcycle batteries? Now scale that up by, oh 10 to 20 times the size and weight.
Battery transfer isn’t going to happen. Electrons transfer pretty easily. Their containers? Not so much.
Israeli is trying it again with scooter battery swaps …
Keep in mind that batteries in cars weigh 1000-2500 lbs…
People have proposed battery swaps but it takes special design of cars, special attention to collision problems – both ‘crumple zones’ and damage to batteries in an accident.
In addition, each new ‘generation’ of EV battery is more efficient - so manufacturers will not be jumping up and down to ‘standardized’. Heck, you can’t even ‘standardize’ tire size…there’s 30 different tires on new cars - or more - and how many 12 v battery sizes? Brake linings and rotors? Struts…etc…not to mention oil filters, mufflers, exhaust systems, manifolds, spark plugs and on and on. CV joints. Radios. Heaters. A/C units…
Tesla’s new battery /design packaging will maybe double range of newer cars.
Not going to happen.
By the time you get such a system up and running, who knows, batteries might be recharged in 15 minutes at 100,000 service stations around the country…latest Telsa is 97% charge in an hour - beating everyone else for percent of charge in that time.
Batteries would need to be standardized between all makes and models, so there wouldn’t need to be Tesla-only filling stations or Nissan or Ford filling stations.
But standardizing makes no sense, especially right now.
First, we have different voltages, chemistries and sizes/shapes.
And we have Tesla going to make structural batteries.
And we have the issue of “taking care” of the battery you own vs the battery you rent.
When you own it, on average, you will take better care of it…meaning you’ll only do fast full charges rarely and not drain it low very often.
Most people agree that a limiting factor in EVs is the availability of battery materials. In a world with everyone swapping batteries we would need to have many more batteries than cars. That makes no sense.
Most of these arguments are based on the PRESENT state of battery technology and don’t take into account future developments. We are already seeing new plastic batteries for large scale applications and the plan is to shrink these batteries while increasing capacity.
To think that our current batteries will be the best available 5, 10 or 15 years from now is short sighted.
Most of these arguments are based on the PRESENT state of battery technology and don’t take into account future developments.
Aren’t you just making my argument for me? If there are multiple serious battery improvements why would the industry standardize on a swappable battery now?
About 5 years in the future there will be fast chargers every 50 miles on highways plus most out of the way places.* With people usually charging at home or work how will there be enough business to support a capital intensive inventory of batteries at as many locations?
approximating the 48 states as 3000 x 1200 miles with a grid of 50 x 50 miles it only takes 60x24 (or 1440) locations to have a charger every 50 miles. Tesla by themselves already has almost this many just not distributed that evenly due to where most EVs have been sold so far.
“* approximating the 48 states as 3000 x 1200 miles with a grid of 50 x 50 miles it only takes 60x24 (or 1440) locations to have a charger every 50 miles.”
Not just a charger, but multiple ones.
THere are truck stops/convenience stores here with 20x2 gas pumps - like BucEs along the interstates. Most people probably stop 5 to 10 minutes at a pump. 15 minutes if they run inside or not full of cars - otherwise they pull up to go into the store itself.
Now…if it takes an HOUR to do the same - then you’ll need 120 or more ‘charge point machines’ there at 265 KW each.
Now we’re talking a 50 MEGAWATT substation and power lines to that location. That’s enough for an entire town of 50,000 people.
Most stations here have 12 to 36 pumps…the WM super center. The Costco…the Kroger.
Now multiply that by 4 (that hour delay to charge) …
It’s not ‘a’ charger but enough to satisfy travelers.
There are stretches of Interstate in TX and MT that don’t even have a town, ranch, house for 70 or 80 or 100 miles. Nor a gas station. And of course, no power lines within 30 miles.
Now…if it takes an HOUR to do the same - then you’ll need 120 or more ‘charge point machines’ there at 265 KW each. – telegraph
We’ve taken our Teslas on multiple trips. Never need to charge more than 30 minutes, usually less. It’s often a rushed fast food meal if stopping for that. Adjust expectations accordingly.
Rob
Former RB and BL Home Fool, Supernova Portfolio Contributor & Maintenance Fool
He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.
The 1200 or so Tesla Supercharger locations in the US have about an average of 10 chargers per location and maybe with 20 and even 40 or more. They have financed all this with a few hundred dollars per car being put into installing chargers.
They legacy car makers haven’t done this because they want someone else to pay for it because they don’t sell enough EVs to make a difference. They don’t sell enough because they have no place to charge on long trips. Tesla is past critical mass on chargers, IMO.
There are stretches of Interstate in TX and MT that don’t even have a town, ranch, house for 70 or 80 or 100 miles. Nor a gas station. And of course, no power lines within 30 miles.
So what? Charging within every 50 miles doesn’t have to be 100% to be highly useful.
For those few locations they can put up a sign that says no EV charging for the next 100 miles.
Prepare accordingly. Any EV doing that trip should have over 200 mile range anyway. Do they have cell service? Where are they getting power to run the towers?
There are stretches of Interstate in TX and MT that don’t even have a town, ranch, house for 70 or 80 or 100 miles. Nor a gas station. And of course, no power lines within 30 miles.
Someone could also put up some solar panels and a couple of chargers and charge double or triple the normal rate for those that don’t pay attention to the warning signs or apps that show where chargers are located.
Not really a difficult problem to solve.