EV Road Trip

Investment Analysis Clubs Macro Economic Trends and Risks
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https://www.wsj.com/articles/i-rented-an-electric-car-for-a-…

**I Rented an Electric Car for a Four-Day Road Trip. I Spent More Time Charging It Than I Did Sleeping.**
**Our writer drove from New Orleans to Chicago and back to test the feasibility of taking a road trip in an EV. She wouldn’t soon do it again.**

**By Rachel Wolfe, The Wall Street Journal, June 3, 2022**

**...**
**Sales of pure and hybrid plug-ins doubled in the U.S. last year to 656,866 — over 4% of the total market, according to database EV-volumes. More than half of car buyers say they want their next car to be an EV, according to recent Ernst & Young Global Ltd. data....**

**Over four days, we spent $175 on charging. We estimated the equivalent cost for gas in a Kia Forte would have been $275, based on the AAA average national gas price for May 19. That $100 savings cost us many hours in waiting time.**

**But that’s not the whole story....It turns out not all “fast chargers” live up to the name....**

**“How long could it possibly take to charge the 30 miles we need to make it to the next fast station?” I wonder. Three hours. It takes 3 hours....To save power, we turn off the car’s cooling system and the radio, unplug our phones and lower the windshield wipers to the lowest possible setting while still being able to see. Three miles away from the station, we have one mile of estimated range....“Charge, Urgently!” the dashboard urges....We figure 11 hours should be plenty for a trip that would normally take half as long. That is, if absolutely everything goes right....** [end quote]

OK, that’s just a fraction of the story.

These intrepid travelers didn’t run out of juice between charging stations, but they met a woman had to be towed twice while driving between her Louisville, Ky., apartment and Boulder, Colo., where her daughter was getting married.

Would I buy an EV?

Nope! Non! Nein! Nix!!!

Maybe a hybrid ICE/ EV. But not an EV.

Wendy

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Bet it wasn’t a Tesla.

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“How long could it possibly take to charge the 30 miles we need to make it to the next fast station?” I wonder. Three hours. It takes 3 hours.

I don’t know about a Kia, but Tesla has software that allows you to safely plan your trip from supercharger to supercharger. I’d be surprised if Kia doesn’t have something similar. Maybe she didn’t read the manual?

That said I agree that plug in hybrids are the sweet spot until we get much cheaper batteries.

Most people could accomplish 90% of their driving on electric mode with a 40 mi battery range. A mid size SUV could put some charge in the battery and maintain 70 mph on the highway with maybe a 60 HP ICE. I’m not willing to pay an extra $20,000 for a 300 mi battery I’ll use twice a year, if the small ICE engine is a lot cheaper.

intercst

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I’m flat not willing to pay $35K for a car. But if I were, I might get an EV for local trips. I expect our next car will be a hybrid van, though, because we need to be able to seat 7 people routinely.

Cars are way, way, too expensive. Everything about them costs too much, except that in most places you just can’t function without one.

Anyhow, I think anyone who manages to build a reliable cheap car, especially a hybrid, will take a huge share of the market.

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I wonder what internet post would have looked like in the 1890s or early 1900s about horseless carriages?

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I wonder what internet post would have looked like in the 1890s or early 1900s about horseless carriages?

Nobody needs to go faster than 8 MPH for more than a mile or so.

And are you really in such a rush that you can’t afford to rest for an hour after every twenty miles, for a change of battery packs horses?

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I wonder what internet post would have looked like in the 1890s or early 1900s about horseless carriages?

Horseless carriages are noisy and they frighten the horses. They should be banned.

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https://www.history.com/news/the-epic-road-trip-that-inspire…

I’m not saying that NOBODY should buy EVs. I’m saying that I wouldn’t because the infrastructure isn’t ready yet.
Wendy

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But if everyone follows you and doesn’t buy an EV until the infrastructure is ready, will the infrastructure ever be ready?

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Three hours. It takes 3 hours…

+++
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Don’t know about the WSJ writer, but my time is valued in the triple digit$ range!

sunray
a man with fast (IC) cars

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I wonder what internet post would have looked like in the 1890s or early 1900s about horseless carriages?

Very early on in the history of horseless carriages, it was obvious that they (the carriages themselves) were qualitatively better, in ways that users cared about for personal reasons, than the horse-drawn carriages they replaced. Instant availability, less personal care needed, rapid refueling, improved load-hauling capacity, improved speed, improved endurance, and those last two combined meant vastly improved range…

… granted, the infrastructure wasn’t immediately up to all of that (particularly the refueling and the speed).

Today - not talking about next year or five or twenty years from now, just TODAY - electric vehicles offer no such advantage over internal-combustion vehicles.

Indeed, where an anti-ICU blogger in 1900 might have suggested that on a long trip we should be happy to pause for an hour, three or four times a day, for a change of horses, anti-ICU bloggers in 2022 suggest that we should be happy to pause for an hour, three or four times a day, for a battery charge.

Those same anti-ICU bloggers also recommend that we should daily remove the tack from our horses (also brush the horses) and put it on them again the next morning - or daily plug our electric cars in for charging and unplug them again the next morning.

(Dunno what to do about that one - at the voltage and amperage needed for charging an electric car, the mere thought of wireless charging makes me want to be somewhere far away.)

Then there are special situations. As a full-time RVer and snowbird, I want a car I can hitch behind my motorhome and tow - not load onto a trailer. At present there is no such electric vehicle, and only a few hybrids.

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The only thing wrong with that story is… just about everything. Here, try one about a newbie who rented a Tesla instead:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/travel/tips/ev-rent-tesla-her…

The sad truth right now is that pretty much the only EV well suited to long road trips is a Tesla. This is mostly because Tesla is the only manufacturer to make sure that a reliable and cost-effective charging infrastructure exists. So, with a Tesla, the long road trip experience has been great for years. In fact, it is so superior to driving an ICE that I’ve never taken my Highlander Hybrid on a road trip since I got my first Tesla in 2014 (except a couple of times when forced to).

Would I buy an EV?

Nope! Non! Nein! Nix!!!

Reading the WSJ about EVs is about as useful as watching Fox News. It just makes you fearful and ignorant.

-IGU-

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Would I buy an EV?

Nope! Non! Nein! Nix!!!

Maybe a hybrid ICE/ EV. But not an EV.

Wendy

===========================================================

You are spitting into the wind again.

Jaak

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I’m saying that I wouldn’t because the infrastructure isn’t ready yet.
Wendy

Wendy, the TESLA infrastructure is ready and completely sufficient for a majority of Americans and Europeans. My “infrastructure” starts at my home where I charge my Model Y for 8 cents per kWh (Portland, OR, off-peak rates, i.e. overnight) with a 220v outlet. My Tesla app calculator tells me that I spent $20 last month for daily around town driving, vs the $142 I would have spent for a comparable ICE crossover SUV. In other words, for local city driving, I pay 1/7th what I’d pay for gas for a Subaru Forester.

The Tesla Supercharger network covers the vast majority of Interstate highways, and a rapidly growing number of 2-lane highways in more rural areas.

As for time spent charging at Superchargers, it’s trivial in the long run. A typical 9 hour drive from Portland to Sacramento took us < 11 hours. We made four stops to charge at an average of 20-30 minutes per stop. We’d probably make those stops anyway, for snacks, restrooms, leg-stretching, etc.

Of course for road trips, the Tesla Supercharger rates per kWh are more than my home charging, but much, much less than I’d pay for gas.

I understand why an EV might not be right for you for other reasons, but range anxiety might not be as bad as you think. :hugs:

Cheers,

SpeyCaster

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I wonder what internet post would have looked like in the 1890s or early 1900s about horseless carriages?

Pony Express had to exchange their blood powered vehicles at every filling station. LOL

The Captain

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I’m not saying that NOBODY should buy EVs. I’m saying that I wouldn’t because the infrastructure isn’t ready yet.
Wendy

Everybody has his/hers/its place in the Technology Adoption Life Cycle (TALC)

https://softwaretimes.com/pics/talc-800.png

Wendy is saying she is “Late Majority” or “Laggard.” IGU is saying he is “Early Adopter” or “Early Majority.” It takes all kinds to make the world go around.

As investors the anecdotes are interesting buy useless. What counts is their sum total as pictured above. And note that the TALC curve also mirrors the “S” Growth curve. Don’t gamble before the Chasm is Crossed although it could be extremely lucrative if you guess right. Ride the middle period because nothing goes on forever. And you can mostly ignore the volatility, it’s just noise in the larger picture.

The Captain

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There’s a whole lot of TX without Telsa super chargers…and even those only give you an 80% charge in 30-40 minutes. All EV batteries charge quickly to 80%…

But that is 80% of miles…so if your EV is a 250 mile EPA range…you only get 200 miles of range, if lucky, at a charge stop.

The article pointed out that a large number of chargers are ‘not working’. Including Tesla super chargers. Others are buried at shopping centers, motel parking lots - not on the interstate taking 10-20 minutes to get to - and if your lucky - no one else there charging.

So on a thousand mile trip - you’re looking at at least 4 stops after a full charge at home.

My last trip to OH…I came home driving 700 miles the first day. Had to fill the gas tank once…then again at first night stop. Drove the 300 miles home the next day - no stops.

I’ll wait for the affordable 500 mile EV range car. And an entire network of FAST chargers country wide in every town and burg in TX.

Oh, and the article pointed out a lot of the chargers are only 24 KW…not the 55 KW super chargers…so you wait even longer.

Yeah, in 1900…there weren’t even ‘roads’ between towns. So EVs did well around town. Almost no one tried to drive 25 or 50 miles to the next town. But once ICE cars came about and especially the Model T that had no problem with dirt and mud roads… the road network wasn’t improved. Then they were. Half of all cars back then were EVs. Some steam powered. Railroads connected a zillion towns.

For the ‘average’ consumer, EVs are not yet suitable for trips.

For geeks buying Teslas…maybe - if they stick to the interstates and luck out.

t

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I’m not saying that NOBODY should buy EVs. I’m saying that I wouldn’t because the infrastructure isn’t ready yet.

How ready the infrastructure is depends on usage pattern and brand. For example, I myself have taken no long distance trips in 10 years, so an in-house charger would have handled 100% of my needs without any hassle at all. And, as for long trips, if one owns a Tesla, there are many which can be accomplished with little difficulty. Now, if one happens to be someone who spends all their travelling time in back country far from the madding crowd, then one might need to stick with an ICE car unless one had a cabin which could be fitted with a charger.

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I’ll wait for the affordable 500 mile EV range car. And an entire network of FAST chargers country wide in every town and burg in TX.

That seems the bare minimum for me as well- with the understanding that a 500 mile range will be quickly degraded by cold weather, and slowly degraded, even in warm weather, as the battery ages.

A three year old EV with an original estimated range of 500 miles might see a realistic range of 300 miles if the temperature is below freezing.

That can work for our purposes, though not for a long trip in the winter… in Michigan.

More short term efficiency might be gained for our driving patterns by getting a plug-in hybrid.

A few dollars of electricity and a tank of gas per month.

I did own a Prius hybrid from 2006-2016. 235,000 miles (and the woman I sold it to is still driving it). My only major repair was a new battery- but that was most certainly a MAJOR, but at 160,000 miles, not an unexpected expense.

Loved it.

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My Tesla app calculator tells me that I spent $20 last month for daily around town driving, vs the $142 I would have spent for a comparable ICE crossover SUV. In other words, for local city driving, I pay 1/7th what I’d pay for gas for a Subaru Forester.

You also need to add the cost of the battery in your daily cost calculations.

a. How long before you need to replace the battery and

b. How much will it cost?

A few weeks ago we had this in the news:

Man Blows Up His Tesla Model S Instead of Replacing the Battery… https://www.guideautoweb.com/en/articles/63920/watch-man-blo…

-=Ajax=-

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