EVs Less Reliable than IC & Hybrids?

[ItsGoingUp]

@BenSolar

But, just as an example , the 2021 Tesla Model 3’s worst trouble spots were Paint/Trim, Body Integrity, and Body Hardware: nothing to do with the infotainment system and nothing that can be improved by an over-the-air update.

You’ve made these claims before. Not being a subscriber I can’t see any numbers at your link, so I can’t say much about them. It isn’t even clear to me if the numbers they are reporting are for 2021 vehicles or if they coming up with a reliability rating for 2021 based on earlier years.

EDIT: I verified that this does appear in the October 2022 issue.
But I did come across this recently quoted gem attributed to the October, 2022 edition of Consumer Reports:

If EVs are simpler design and have fewer [moving] parts, why do they cost more than complex gas-powered vehicles? And why doesn’t the simpler design translate to the highest reliability ratings? -John Kosa, Minneapolis

EDITORS NOTE *The cost of an EV’s lithium-ion battery is the biggest factor. According to the Institute for Energy Research, the average cost for each kWh of battery capacity is about $160. That means that for an EV with an 80-KWh battery, the battery alone costs $12,800. The EV revolution is relatively new, with automakers investing heavily in new technologies and manufacturing facilities. In time those costs will be spread over more models and should go down. In terms of reliability, most trouble spots we see in our Annual Surveys are attributable to infotainment systems and other ancillary items rather than EV powertrains.

To what do you attribute this disparity? Most EVs out there in the US are Teslas.

And the whole notion that the infotainment system is relevant to “reliability” in a similar way to a powertrain is nonsense of the first order. Pretty much the same for their other trouble spot items.

But, if you like, since I’m not a fan of CR for anything at all, I’ll stop trying to be explicit and just say that their ratings of Tesla don’t reflect any reality I’m aware of.

-IGU-

[syke6]

@ItsGoingUp

But, if you like, since I’m not a fan of CR for anything at all, I’ll stop trying to be explicit and just say that their ratings of Tesla don’t reflect any reality I’m aware of.

CR has consistently graded Teslas as their best overall rated cars. Are you saying that in the reality you are aware of that Teslas are the crappiest cars???

[Goofyhoofy]

@ItsGoingUp

In terms of reliability, most trouble spots we see in our Annual Surveys are attributable to infotainment systems and other ancillary items rather than EV powertrains.

Again, methodology. They specifically say that while there are many problems with many manufacturers infotainment systems, those are a “nuisance” and correctable, while safety issues like brakes and engine life and transmission failure are potentially appliance ending and or safety related, so they are weighted far more heavily in their evaluation.

You seem to deliberately misunderstand the methodology, then complain about it.

[BenSolar]

@ItsGoingUp

Not being a subscriber I can’t see any numbers at your link, so I can’t say much about them. It isn’t even clear to me if the numbers they are reporting are for 2021 vehicles or if they coming up with a reliability rating for 2021 based on earlier years.

The numbers for the 2021 Tesla Model 3 (cars produced in 2021) are 3/5 (Average) for overall reliability rating. That is average compared to other 2021 vehicles. Most of the 17 trouble areas broken out separately rate 5/5 (much above average), Power Equipment 4/5, Climate System, and In Car Electronics 3/5, Paint/Trim, Body Integrity, and Body Hardware 1/5.

Here’s what those last three areas cover:

PAINT/TRIM: Paint (fading, chalking, peeling, or cracking), loose interior or exterior trim or moldings, rust.

BODY INTEGRITY (Noises/leaks): Squeaks, rattles, wind noises, seals and/or weather stripping, air and water leaks.

BODY HARDWARE: Windows, locks and latches, doors or sliding doors, tailgate, trunk or hatch, mirrors, seat controls (power or manual), seat belts, sunroof, convertible top, glass defect.

@ItsGoingUp

I did come across this recently quoted gem attributed to the October, 2022 edition of Consumer Reports:
…
In terms of reliability, most trouble spots we see in our Annual Surveys are attributable to infotainment systems and other ancillary items rather than EV powertrains.

To what do you attribute this disparity? Most EVs out there in the US are Teslas.

When CR says that EVs as a group are the least reliable group of vehicles outside of full size pickups, perhaps they are giving each model of car equal weight rather than each individual car sold. If that’s the case, the hundred thousand+ Model 3s rated Above Average weigh no heavier than the tens of thousands of Hyundai Kona EVs rated Much Below Average.

Here’s a quote from CR on what’s pulling down the category:

Now that more (as well as less-expensive) EV models are being introduced and selling in greater numbers, more respondents are reporting problems with EV-specific systems, including the battery packs, charging systems, and drive motors.

These problems are seen across multiple EVs, including the Chevrolet Bolt, Ford Mustang Mach-E, Hyundai Kona Electric, and Volkswagen ID.4, which all have below-average reliability.

“In previous years, EVs have had high rates of problems with infotainment system display screens and other in-car electronics, just as many conventional models do,” Fisher says. “This year, issues with those systems remain, while problems specifically with EV-related components are now being reported.”

Since you mainly seemed concerned with Tesla, you may be happy to hear that their 2022 ratings have gone up. I mentioned before that the 2022 Model 3 is now rated 4/5 (above average) for the first time, the '22 Model Y 3/5 (average) for the first time, and the Model S is back up to 3/5 (average) after a couple years rated 1/5 and 2/5. Model X didn’t get enough survey responses to be rated for 2022. So, it’s not Tesla dragging down the category.